17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[m00c0w]

That's great. It's actually an apology to Media Matters readers and the Martin family, not Drudge or anyone else. They apologized for using the fake photo. JMO.

What?

They were referring to when they called the photo Drudge used fake.

"Mixed up Drudge photo of Trayvon w Michelle Malkin's. Malkin's is an admitted fake. Drudge? Don't know. Sorry."

In other words:

We got mixed up, and thought that Drudge's photo was one of the fakes photos released. Malkin's were an admitted fake. Drudge's? We don't know. Sorry.

This:
https://twitter.com/#!/MJayRosenberg/status/184655201645502464

Is the tweet they were apologizing for. Make sense now?

 

[francie]

Last night, Joe Oliver stated that he had not SEEN (spoken in person) to Zimmerman, but had been speaking to him by phone. He also stated he did not know where Zimmerman is currently located (hiding).

So has SPOKEN to, but not personally SEEN Zimmerman....

Good to know, thanks! But I've seen & heard Joe Oliver say he hadn't spoken with him at all not even by phone many times, perhaps he finally talked to him last night?

 

[LambChop]

You are free to have that opinion but it is not what was actually said. <modsnip> : DON'T DO THAT and YOU DON'T NEED TO DO THAT. One is a clear directive. The other is a not-so-clear suggestion.

If we stick to the facts and the actual wording, it makes for a less muddled discussion.

GZ seem to understand it, he said okay. He was told to wait in his vehicle until LE arrived. The chief said they couldn't order him not to follow because of a possible lawsuit but had the dispatcher known he was carrying a gun GZ would have been told to get back in his truck and not follow TM and that is an order. LE can order you to stand back, they can order you not to pass this point, that you need to move along, etc. They do it all the time. GZ knew exactly what LE was telling him because he took the NWP classes which specifically tells him to observe only. GZ took it upon himself to disregard what he knew to be true and what LE was asking him to do. And I do not think it was a suggestion when the officer told him to stay with his vehicle, there is nothing suggestive in that order. "you don't need to do that a patrol car is on the way. They will meet you by the mailboxes." I think that was pretty clear. jmo

 

[rotterdam]

Where the body was found is NOT conjecture, and the time of the calls is NOT conjecture, and the time that the police arrived and found the body is NOT conjecture, so the task is to figure out some way that Zimmerman could have STOPPED following TM and still be in the area where the body was found if his call to dispatch was at 7:09 and the Police arrived to find Treyvon dead at 7:17

I haven't been able to do it but maybe someone else can, I am willing to entertain any suggestions that make sense short of Scotty beaming him in to the crime scene.

so by "them" you meant "get the bottom of this" and by "us" you meant "hang zimmerman"?
I came to the states over 20 years ago and what shocked me almost immediately is how racist America still is.I had no idea.It's a hypocritical racism and it stuns me.Over the years I came across so many white people saying obviously racist things but then they turn around and say they are not racist.I don't get it.I lived in a black neighborhood most of my time here and people were talking bad about white people and about themselves but at least they are honest about it.I lived in a white neighborhood and both neighborhoods are lower middle class.Poor white people commit as many crimes and do as many drugs as poor black people but will still make racist comments.I don't get it.
I'm hoping at least this case will open the discussion and America will OPENLY talk about their racism

I came to the States almost 30 years ago. And yes racism is still very much ingrained. The real sad thing is that so many folks do not even realize they are racist but you can tell when they serve a black person or when a black/white couple walks in to a public place. Only one place where I noticed very little racism was around San Jose, CA. Heck, half the folks talked with an accent there. It takes a while but I do think with each generation it will become less.

 

[claudicici]

by your on admission you do not need witnesses to determine probable cause.LE COULD have arrested GZ on the spot but they chose not to,I guess that's what you meant by probable cause is determined by free will.They could have but they did not.Why ?
Could it be racism?

 

[Sensei]

BBM

No, that indicates he's potentially a large person that's excited and following Trayvon, potentially from his car. I've seen large people get short of breath from eating. That's a tenuous leap to make.

If he was in his car when he is told he doesn't need to follow and he then stops following, then HOW does he get to where Trayvon was found shot?

Are you of the opinion that he never was actually in the vehicle and had been following Trayvon from the beginning of the call to 911, only breaking off and going back to his care after being told he didn't need to follow? That really doesn't look any better for him, since it just means he followed a scared teen for longer than we thought...Otherwise there is NO WAY he stopped following, unless it was before the last 60 seconds or so of the confrontation.
IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[LambChop]

Being called a racist for showing a real picture of how TM,too bad the family did not release an updated photo instead of how he looked at 12.

I thought they said he was 15???

 

[HiHater]

You don't know when Zimmerman exited his car or why. His attorney said it will all be made clear. Assuming he left his vehicle at a certain time for a certain reason is conjecture. Only an unsourced person has stated that he claimed it was to read a street sign, and that hasn't been repeated from anyone linked to the investigation since.

Lee says that Zimmerman said he stepped out of his truck to jot down the address to give to a 911 dispatcher when Martin attacked him from behind.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...case-george-zimmerman-bill-lee_n_1371635.html

 

[gxm]

Where the body was found is NOT conjecture, and the time of the calls is NOT conjecture, and the time that the police arrived and found the body is NOT conjecture, so the task is to figure out some way that Zimmerman could have STOPPED following TM and still be in the area where the body was found if his call to dispatch was at 7:09 and the Police arrived to find Treyvon dead at 7:17

I haven't been able to do it but maybe someone else can, I am willing to entertain any suggestions that make sense short of Scotty beaming him in to the crime scene.

I've seen maps (on the WS threads) that don't make it look that far. I used to think GZ was looking for a confrontation, but now I'm not so sure. I think that GZ might have been trying to keep an eye on TM so he could tell the cops the direction he was headed. And I don't have any problem believing how quickly things fell apart. JMO, of course.

 

[mikeysmommom]

When his side of the story was released, the mother characterized it as "demonizing" her son.

There doesn't seem to be much of a motivation to release anything, IMO. It will all be brushed off and branded as another ploy. JMO

Wow the Mom think an updated picture of TM is demonizing him IMO makes no sense. I have seen an updated picture of GZ I wish I would have booked mark.His face is slimmer and he looked much better and article also said he was about 180 in weight so for some reason a bad heavier GM was shown but a younger TM was shown from the beginning.Weird IMO. I have been looking for it as soon as I find it I will post the link.

 

[annalia]

Being called a racist for showing a real picture of how TM,too bad the family did not release an updated photo instead of how he looked at 12.

Seems like you really missed the point.

There WAS a phony picture being passed off as Trayvon, a phony picture claiming someone was Tray that wasn't, with some dialogue that went along with this phony picture that they claimed was Trayvon.

So no they weren't wrong or apologizing for what they said, they were apologizing that it was not the correct photo.

Perhaps that's the family's fault too.

 

[ynotdivein]

Somewhere way back in the mists of time, I recall posting a statement along the lines of this:

(paraphrased) Pictures of Trayvon are a non-starter in this thread. Photoshopped or not, age 16 or 17 or 12, they have no real bearing on what actually happened the night Trayvon was killed. Please move past them.

:tyou:

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...panther-leader-trayvon-martin-bounty-arrested

A leader of the New Black Panther Party who put a bounty on the head of the neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin has landed behind bars on a weapons charge.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I came to the States almost 30 years ago. And yes racism is still very much ingrained. The real sad thing is that so many folks do not even realize they are racist but you can tell when they serve a black person or when a black/white couple walks in to a public place. Only one place where I noticed very little racism was around San Jose, CA. Heck, half the folks talked with an accent there. It takes a while but I do think with each generation it will become less.

BBM
Accent. What kind of accent? I'm in Northern California too and we don't have an distinct accent here that I'm aware of.

 

[m00c0w]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...case-george-zimmerman-bill-lee_n_1371635.html

Thank you. And we don't know when that occurred, or what may have happened during this encounter.

 

[annalia]

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...panther-leader-trayvon-martin-bounty-arrested

A leader of the New Black Panther Party who put a bounty on the head of the neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin has landed behind bars on a weapons charge.

Good, hopefully he stays there.

JMHO

 

[Concerned Papa]

You don't know when Zimmerman exited his car or why. His attorney said it will all be made clear. Assuming he left his vehicle at a certain time for a certain reason is conjecture. Only an unsourced person has stated that he claimed it was to read a street sign, and that hasn't been repeated from anyone linked to the investigation since.

I'm not clear on why he was in his car following along anyway. It's less than a football field's distance from the clubhouse to where the sidewalk leaves the curb line. Once on that sidewalk, it's approximately another 125' to where the sidewalk turns to where the body was found.

At any point during that 400'+/- path of movement, Zimmerman had an unencumbered line of sight to where the sidewalk turned 90 degrees between the buildings and where the body was found. This turn in the only place Zimmerman could have possibly lost sight of the boy.

Something's not right with this statement:

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

From one end of this anticipated journey to the other, that sidewalk turn is the ONLY place Zimmerman could have "lost sight", yet he is saying he was accosted while walking BACK from this point to his car.

If it happened the way Zimmerman says, how did the body wind up in a continuation of the direction taken after this blind turn?

 

[mikeysmommom]

by your on admission you do not need witnesses to determine probable cause.LE COULD have arrested GZ on the spot but they chose not to,I guess that's what you meant by probable cause is determined by free will.They could have but they did not.Why ?
Could it be racism?

Or could be the police who saw the actual crime scene felt it was in self defense.Since they did not arrest him.JMO

 

[LambChop]

I've seen maps (on the WS threads) that don't make it look that far. I used to think GZ was looking for a confrontation, but now I'm not so sure. I think that GZ might have been trying to keep an eye on TM so he could tell the cops the direction he was headed. And I don't have any problem believing how quickly things fell apart. JMO, of course.

He knew where TM was headed. He told LE TM was headed for the back gate. There's only one way in/out on one end and one way in/out on the other end. It's how the ALL get away. Why was it necessary to track him, he gave LE a description? I guess he felt he could do a better job than LE. jmo

 

[raeann]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...case-george-zimmerman-bill-lee_n_1371635.html

Yes....he stepped out to get the address (these are ONLY on the front of the buildings facing the street) and then TM attacked him from behind and then apparently carried this 250 pound man down two sidewalks and around to the back of the buildings... truly an amazingly strong 140 pound young teen!!!