17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[jjenny]

THIS IS THE EMAIL I REC'D TODAY

THE ABC Chicago Reporter DID make a MISTAKE. As far as they know, Martin DID NOT CALL 911

RE: Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting
WLS - TV News ([email protected]

To: REDACTED

Reporter Paul Meincke misspoke at the end of his Friday live report. He was doing a story about marchers in Chicago. At the end of his story while explaining that the FBI hopes to enhance audio from 911 recordings he misspoke when he said Trayvon Martin made a 911 call. Zimmerman and a number of witnesses made calls to 911. There are reports that Martin was on the phone with a friend at the time, but we do not have any information that Martin made a 911 call. We regret the error.

Thank you for watching and for taking the time to email us.



----Original Message-----
From: REDACTED
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 10:38 PM
To: WLS-TV News
Subject: Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting

From: REDACTED
name: REDACTED
City: REDACTED
State: Florida
Zip: REDACTED
Phone: 321 REDACTED

Comments: Hello. In a report about the Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting in Sanford Fl, your reporter said that Trayvon Martin had made a call to 911. This has not been reported anywhere else; did Paul Meincke mean to say George Zimmerman had made the call to 911? Thanks

Thanks. It was kind of obvious this was a mistake, wasn't it? That kind of "bombshell" wouldn't have been just reported by some guy in Chicago.

 

[mikeysmommom]

I don't think anyone beleives that Zimmerman deserved to be killed because he was following someone, but neither did Trayvon. Trayvon was not the one with a loaded gun, and I would really like some corroborating evidence that would show me that Zimmerman did not attempt to restrain or stop Trayvon before the fight started, some evidence that would show that he really was in a fight that was significant enough to make him fear for his life from an unarmed teen, something other than simply his word for it. I would really like some evidence that makes sense to show my why an unarmed teen would brutally attack the stranger that was following him.

I could very well be wrong, but I just can't make sense of a kid with no weapon turning and engaging viciously someone that he was not sure did not have a gun, someone moreover who would and should have cleaned his clock for him, with the weight advantage that he had.

Can you make sense of why TM punched the bus driver?A day or two before this happened.

 

[LambChop]

If it was stolen goods then maybe he was looking to rob the houses so IMO it does matter.Also the school most certainly IMO have the right to ask if the gold was his but they could not because TM would not say who the friend was.IMO Police should have been called.No they sent pictures to Dade county Police ,what happened to the Gold and silver jewelry someone owned it.Maybe Dade County was not where it was stolen from.JMO Suspending for graffiti and nothing done about the jewelry does not make sense to me.He also struck a School bus driver according to the link posted on page 2, Maybe if that would have been handled the right way by police being ,parents notified maybe TM if he did not get another pass would have not attacked GZ as per witness reports and GZ own statement.In my school police would have been called on all 3 times.All IMO.

If the jewelry were stolen TM would have been arrested for receiving stolen goods, they were in his possession and it doesn't matter how he got them, he had them. My guess is the jewelry belonged to another student and maybe that student wanted some pot. Since nothing happened, they had no proof, no charges and the school opted to give TM a break and not tell his family because he was already in trouble for tagging. Again, if he struck the school bus driver he would have been arrested. Is Florida the only state where you can say "alley kazam" and your arrest record disappears???? jmo

 

[m00c0w]

So to all who think SYG applies to GZ.. Let me ask this why doesnt SYG apply to TM?????? No one has attempted to answer and it has been asked a few times on this thread...TM could have cliamed a SYG defense but he was murdered....

IMO,JMHO AND ALL THAT!!!!!!!!!!!

Because if he was the initial aggressor, he would not be covered under law.

Just as if Zimmerman was the initial aggressor, he would not be covered under law.

IMO, there's not enough evidence to say either way right now, and following is not in and of itself an aggressive act.

 

[m00c0w]

If the jewelry were stolen TM would have been arrested for receiving stolen goods, they were in his possession and it doesn't matter how he got them, he had them. My guess is the jewelry belonged to another student and maybe that student wanted some pot. Since nothing happened, they had no proof, no charges and the school opted to give TM a break and not tell his family because he was already in trouble for tagging. jmo

There has to be proof they were stolen before they can be considered stolen goods. If no one claimed them or they couldn't identify where they came from, they couldn't be labeled as stolen. JMO

 

[rotterdam]

I walk my neighborhood nearly every evening and I'm always 'looking about' at the houses, yards, surroundings, etc. What else was he supposed to be looking at?

With hoodie up, you have to turn your head more because it acts like side blinders.

 

[ggg]

Poor woman...more innocent victims.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/p...ess-possibly-putting-sanford-woman-in-danger/

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I'm tellin ya, I have a neighbor who has a 22 yr old kid who wants to be an MMA fighter, and fights in some local events who said he really wishes he could pack that kind of punch. ( and he has training)

He can't hit someone hard enough to break their nose? He needs to pick a different sport.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

No matter how you slice it, Tray is a homicide victim.

Not necessarily.

If GZ was acting in self defense, TM would not be considered a homicide victim.

That's like saying if someone attacked me and I killed them, the attacker is a homicide victim. That's just not true.

 

[mikeysmommom]

I don't know that I would trust a witness showing up a month later claiming to have seen the whole thing. Where was he or she before?

I would not believe a word anyone who comes out a month later.If she or he witnessed it that night he or she waits a month NO WAY! Looking for her 15 minutes.IMO

 

[vlpate]

They believe there might be? I'd think they should already know who eyewitnesses are and what they claim to have seen.

I watched the interview and she said they do have an eyewitness that may have seen what happened, and they also have many "ear" witnesses. She didn't say they "may have a witness" that saw something.

 

[LambChop]

THIS IS THE EMAIL I REC'D TODAY

THE ABC Chicago Reporter DID make a MISTAKE. As far as they know, Martin DID NOT CALL 911

I can forward the email to a MOD if needed for verification.

RE: Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting
WLS - TV News ([email protected]

To: REDACTED

Reporter Paul Meincke misspoke at the end of his Friday live report. He was doing a story about marchers in Chicago. At the end of his story while explaining that the FBI hopes to enhance audio from 911 recordings he misspoke when he said Trayvon Martin made a 911 call. Zimmerman and a number of witnesses made calls to 911. There are reports that Martin was on the phone with a friend at the time, but we do not have any information that Martin made a 911 call. We regret the error.

Thank you for watching and for taking the time to email us.



----Original Message-----
From: REDACTED
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 10:38 PM
To: WLS-TV News
Subject: Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting

From: REDACTED
name: REDACTED
City: REDACTED
State: Florida
Zip: REDACTED
Phone: 321 REDACTED

Comments: Hello. In a report about the Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting in Sanford Fl, your reporter said that Trayvon Martin had made a call to 911. This has not been reported anywhere else; did Paul Meincke mean to say George Zimmerman had made the call to 911? Thanks

Makes you wonder what some of these reporters are drinking in their morning coffee. lol

 

[HiHater]

Can you make sense of why TM punched the bus driver?A day or two before this happened.

I missed something...can someone link me to this? tia

 

[mikeysmommom]

Not necessarily.

If GZ was acting in self defense, TM would not be considered a homicide victim.

That's like saying if someone attacked me and I killed them, the attacker is a homicide victim. That's just not true.

Poor woman...more innocent victims.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/p...ess-possibly-putting-sanford-woman-in-danger/

He should be sued and arrested for inciting violence.These kinds of things are outrageous.What gives him the right to do this?IMO This kind of mentality is sickening IMO.

 

[jjenny]

I watched the interview and she said they do have an eyewitness that may have seen what happened, and they also have many "ear" witnesses. She didn't say they "may have a witness" that saw something.

Well if they do have a witness, wouldn't they know i he/she saw what had happened? What's with "may have seen?"

 

[Sensei]

Can you make sense of why TM punched the bus driver?A day or two before this happened.

Can you provide me with a link to a reliable source that shows that he did any such thing? A Police report perhaps? A statment from the bus driver, or a kid that was on the bus at the time? A new report stating it?

 

[m00c0w]

I missed something...can someone link me to this? tia

It's just speculation based on something on his Twitter account. Apparently his brother or cousin, depending on the reporting agency, tweeted him saying something to the effect of "You didn't tell me you swung on some bus driver" (only in more txtspeak than actual English).

Martin never confirmed it as far as I've seen, so it's only one person asking a question (more or less). Not really proof of anything.

 

[Nova]

Probable cause is a belief. It's a reasonable belief that a crime has been committed that is based on articulable facts. Whether probable cause exists or not is a fairly nebulous, because what may be considered PC to one person may only be reasonable suspicion to another. There are a few things that are always definitely probable cause, but as a general idea it's much more vague. This is why grand juries are sometimes held to determine if there's probable cause enough to indict someone.

Any law, for that matter, can be abused. Even before the SYG law, the police and prosecutor could determine there was not enough probable cause to charge Zimmerman. The necessity of probable cause was not created with the stand your ground law. It simply prevents arrest due to the mere use of force. If the police already weren't going to arrest someone when there was probable enough cause, it wouldn't matter if the law existed or not.

Are you a lawyer? Because the above is not my layperson's understanding of the law.

Yes, two reasonable people might disagree as to whether probable cause exists, but that doesn't mean the standard is subjective. It is still based in "reasonable belief".

The best-known definition of probable cause is "a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime". Another common definition is "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true". Notable in this definition is a lack of requirement for public position or public authority of the individual making the recognition, allowing for use of the term by citizens and/or the general public.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause"]Probable cause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Put simply, probable cause means it is more likely than not that the defendant committed the crime. It isn't just a hunch or whim.

***

I'm less clear about Florida's new SYG law, but it seems to shift the burden of proof. California has long cautioned jurors that a defendant claiming self-defense cannot be required to "retreat" from the threat of death or grave bodily injury. The jury instructions on the subject caution jurors that a person can be (and people have been) shot or stabbed in the back, so the law doesn't require him to retreat.

But the difference in Florida's law SEEMS TO ME (and again, IANAL) that the burden of proof shifts to the prosecution. In California, self-defense is an affirmative defense and the burden is on the defendant to prove his belief that he was in grave danger was reasonable.

In Florida, somehow, the police and DA appear to have the burden of proving the violent response was NOT justifiable self-defense. This greatly increases the level of probable cause necessary when self-defense is claimed.

It is absolutely possible I am confused about this. I'm relying on talking heads on TV and we all know how misleading that can be.

(ETA you seem to express a similar understanding of the new SYG law in your post #531, so perhaps my question is unnecessary.)

 

[mikeysmommom]

I missed something...can someone link me to this? tia

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html

Yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver,' a user Tweeted to Travyon's alleged account five days before he was killed.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...times-caught-burglary-tool.html#ixzz1qMeIORVu

 

[jjenny]

Poor woman...more innocent victims.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/p...ess-possibly-putting-sanford-woman-in-danger/

That's just plain wrong!