17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[Sensei]

Would that bullet have hit his lung?

not unless it bounced around in the body...Gunshots do not necessairily simply go in an come out, they can hit bones and bounce around quite a bit, the last gunshot we had went in under the clavicle in the left side, went down and hit the hip, up and hit a rib, and was taken out of his right thigh

that was a .357

 

[m00c0w]

According to a 911 caller, one person (who we now know was Zimmerman) was in white t-shirt & on top of Trayvon. GZ in 911 call and police both said Trayvon was in a hoodie, that’s how we know it was GZ on top in the white shirt. I think GZ always had the upper hand by pointing his gun at Trayvon (thus Trayvon screaming for his life jmo) & there was no struggle jmo, and GZ’s mysterious (jmo) injuries were self-inflicted to support self-defense, jmo. jmo. jmo.

Snipped from the second 7:16pm 911 call (link below):

Dispatcher: "So, when you heard screaming, it was a male screaming?"
Caller: "Yes. And the guy on top had a white t-shirt."
Dispatcher: "What do you mean guy on top? Did you see a fight?"
Caller: "I don't know, I just looked out my window, and there was a guy on top wearing a white t-shirt."
Dispatcher: "A white t-shirt. Did you see what kind of pants? He was on top of what?"
Caller: "I couldn't see the person he was on."
Dispatcher: "But he was on top of a person?"
Caller: "Yes."

Police description of Trayvon in same article:
“Officers arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m. ET, according to a police report. Officers Timothy Smith and Ricardo Alayo said they noted a black male in a gray hooded sweatshirt lying face-down in the grass, as well as a white male in the area.”

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20...iref=allsearch

[Link has transcriptions of all the 911 calls]

This was after the gunshot. I don't see how Zimmerman could have shot Martin in the chest while Martin was on his stomach. I'm also not sure how Zimmerman would have been reported in a red shirt everywhere else, but seen in a white shirt here.

 

[jjenny]

According to a 911 caller, one person (who we now know was Zimmerman) was in white t-shirt & on top of Trayvon. GZ in 911 call and police both said Trayvon was in a hoodie, that’s how we know it was GZ on top in the white shirt. I think GZ always had the upper hand by pointing his gun at Trayvon (thus Trayvon screaming for his life jmo) & there was no struggle jmo, and GZ’s mysterious (jmo) injuries were self-inflicted to support self-defense, jmo. jmo. jmo.

Snipped from the second 7:16pm 911 call (link below):

Dispatcher: "So, when you heard screaming, it was a male screaming?"
Caller: "Yes. And the guy on top had a white t-shirt."
Dispatcher: "What do you mean guy on top? Did you see a fight?"
Caller: "I don't know, I just looked out my window, and there was a guy on top wearing a white t-shirt."
Dispatcher: "A white t-shirt. Did you see what kind of pants? He was on top of what?"
Caller: "I couldn't see the person he was on."
Dispatcher: "But he was on top of a person?"
Caller: "Yes."

Police description of Trayvon in same article:
“Officers arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m. ET, according to a police report. Officers Timothy Smith and Ricardo Alayo said they noted a black male in a gray hooded sweatshirt lying face-down in the grass, as well as a white male in the area.”

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20...iref=allsearch

[Link has transcriptions of all the 911 calls]

Zimmerman did not have on a white t-shirt. Police described him wearing red jacket.

 

[vlpate]

There was a reporter for a magazine on one of the shows tonight who said he talked to Chief Lee, and was told that the entry point was direct center of the chest at the top of the diaphram, the point that I would identify as the zyphoid process, the point just at the top where the ribs come together above the stomach.

ETA, he had no information about trajectory

Do you recall which show?

 

[gxm]

GZ seem to understand it, he said okay. He was told to wait in his vehicle until LE arrived. The chief said they couldn't order him not to follow because of a possible lawsuit but had the dispatcher known he was carrying a gun GZ would have been told to get back in his truck and not follow TM and that is an order. LE can order you to stand back, they can order you not to pass this point, that you need to move along, etc. They do it all the time. GZ knew exactly what LE was telling him because he took the NWP classes which specifically tells him to observe only. GZ took it upon himself to disregard what he knew to be true and what LE was asking him to do. And I do not think it was a suggestion when the officer told him to stay with his vehicle, there is nothing suggestive in that order. "you don't need to do that a patrol car is on the way. They will meet you by the mailboxes." I think that was pretty clear. jmo

You are entitled to speculation. But that still does not change the actual words the dispatcher said. GZ was not told to stay in his car. He was not told to get back in his car. He was not told to refrain from looking at street signs.

And it's GZ who tells the dispatcher to meet him by the mailboxes and then changes his mind and asks to have them call him. (Not the other way around.) I'm searching for the sentence fragments you are using and I am coming up empty handed.

From one of the many transcripts I've found:

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah...
Dispatcher: Ok, we don’t need you to do that. OK? Alright sir, what is your name?
Zimmerman: George…He ran.
Dispatcher: Alright George what’s your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman
Dispatcher: And George what’s the phone number you’re calling from?
Zimmerman: XXXX
Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Dispatcher: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that’s my truck...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.
Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?
Zimmerman: Yeah, yeah, I...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What’s your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s XXXX, oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is.
Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?
Zimmerman: Yeah that’s fine.
Dispatcher: Alright George, I’ll let them know to meet you around there okay?
Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?
Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that’s no problem.
Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?
Dispatcher: Yeah I got it XXXX?
Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.
Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I’ll let them know to call you when they’re in the area.
Zimmerman: Thanks.
Dispatcher: You’re welcome.


Boldface personal info has been edited out by me.

I found many versions of the transcript but none include GZ being told to get back in his car, go to the mailboxes, or stop following TM.

 

[Sensei]

It's the largest artery in the body, connected directly to the heart. That's extreme blood loss in a few seconds at most.

True, but at close contact, I would expect that the arterial spurt would have had GZ covered in blood since the 2.5 liters that would be the blood loss before death would not all be contained in the chest cavity.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Anyone who has actually listened to George Zimmerman's call to LE that night can hear him getting out of his car. You can hear it. He DID get out of the car while still talking to LE. LE knew it too because when they noticed it, they asked him if he was following him. It's clear as day when Zimmerman got out of that car. I don't even know why that is being disputed?

My one and only contribution to this thread today.

Someone said that GZ never even left his truck? That doesn't make any sence at all.

 

[jjenny]

This was after the gunshot. I don't see how Zimmerman could have shot Martin in the chest while Martin was on his stomach. I'm also not sure how Zimmerman would have been reported in a red shirt everywhere else, but seen in a white shirt here.

I am pretty sure since neither Zimmerman nor Trayvon were wearing white t-shirt the witness was mistaken.

 

[LambChop]

The only conclusion that I can reach is that the street sign must have been located next to the sidewalk between the rows of condos on both sides.


~jmo~

Wait, wait....that is the same street he was on when he called 911 and he gave them the information. And if he was in his car did he drive up on the sidewalk? That does not make sense. It's the only road out of the main gate. jmo

 

[mikeysmommom]

According to a 911 caller, one person (who we now know was Zimmerman) was in white t-shirt & on top of Trayvon. GZ in 911 call and police both said Trayvon was in a hoodie, that’s how we know it was GZ on top in the white shirt. I think GZ always had the upper hand by pointing his gun at Trayvon (thus Trayvon screaming for his life jmo) & there was no struggle jmo, and GZ’s mysterious (jmo) injuries were self-inflicted to support self-defense, jmo. jmo. jmo.

Snipped from the second 7:16pm 911 call (link below):

Dispatcher: "So, when you heard screaming, it was a male screaming?"
Caller: "Yes. And the guy on top had a white t-shirt."
Dispatcher: "What do you mean guy on top? Did you see a fight?"
Caller: "I don't know, I just looked out my window, and there was a guy on top wearing a white t-shirt."
Dispatcher: "A white t-shirt. Did you see what kind of pants? He was on top of what?"
Caller: "I couldn't see the person he was on."
Dispatcher: "But he was on top of a person?"
Caller: "Yes."

Police description of Trayvon in same article:
“Officers arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m. ET, according to a police report. Officers Timothy Smith and Ricardo Alayo said they noted a black male in a gray hooded sweatshirt lying face-down in the grass, as well as a white male in the area.”

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20...iref=allsearch

[Link has transcriptions of all the 911 calls]

Yes the man in white was TM greys would appear as white at night ,GZ had on red shirt unless something different has come out.Red does not look like white at night .

 

[annalia]

Zimmerman did not have on a white t-shirt. Police described him wearing red jacket.

What was he wearing under his jacket?

 

[m00c0w]

True, but at close contact, I would expect that the arterial spurt would have had GZ covered in blood since the 2.5 liters that would be the blood loss before death would not all be contained in the chest cavity.

That would depend on how much was contained in his clothing and how immediately he rolled off Zimmerman (assuming he was straddling him, as the one witness claims), wouldn't it?

That would actually explain why he was found as he was... He probably wouldn't have had much time to do more than grab the wound and roll over/off.

 

[csziggy]

Isn't the DOJ involved???

I say let them do their jobs.

All this mess of rallies and protests and black panthers and Jesse Jackson, and racial profiling, and arrest demands....... Is not doing a bit of good.

What do they think they are going to do? Pressure an arrest even IF the evidence shows no arrest should be made?

Again, it's my opinion that we should await the facts.

JMO

NOW the DPJ is involved, but it would not be if there had not been "All this mess of rallies and protests and black panthers and Jesse Jackson, and racial profiling, and arrest demands....."

It's my opinion that they have done quite a bit of good.

The City of Sanford has a one hundred year history of racism. That the two other high profile cases involving the police department made no difference shows how little it has changed in that hundred years.

Trayvon Martin's death reminds Sanford of history of racial tension
11:05 p.m. EST, March 14, 2012|By Martin E. Comas, Orlando Sentinel

In almost any community, the shooting death of a black teen by a white crime-watch volunteer would raise accusations of racism. But this one occurred in Sanford, a city that has struggled with racial tensions for a century.

Much of that tension stems from Sanford's long history as an agricultural community that attracted laborers, many of them black, to work in the fields, farms and railroads, historians say. They formed Seminole County's historic black communities of Georgetown, Goldsboro and Midway.

Founded by laborers in the late 19th century, Goldsboro was once an active center of black life and became the second town in Florida incorporated by blacks. But in 1911, Sanford stripped Goldsboro of its charter and took it over. The streets, named after its black pioneers, were quickly renamed.

"Ever since Goldsboro was taken over by Sanford, there has been tension," said Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett.
More: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...olice-lieutenant-black-pioneers-celery-avenue

The Unconquerable Doing the Impossible: Jackie Robinson's 1946 Spring Training in Jim Crow Florida

Daytona Beach, Florida

When the bus finally pulled into the station, it was greeted by a racially mixed crowd. Rachel Robinson recalled, "I had never been so tired, hungry, miserable, upset in my life as when we finally reached Daytona Beach." When they got off the bus, they discovered that Branch Rickey had arranged for a welcoming committee of three African-American men. Wendell Smith, a sportswriter for the Pittsburgh Courier (the most widely circulated black newspaper of the time), and his photographer, Billy Rowe (who had covered the Japanese surrender on the USS Missouri), had been hired by Rickey to protect, chauffeur and advise Jackie. The third man at the station was black pitcher, John Richard Wright, who Rickey had also signed to the Royals. Blacks and whites alike surged forward to get a better look at Robinson, unaware that Wright was also challenging segregated baseball. Branch Rickey had arranged for Jackie and Rachel Robinson to stay the night at the home of black pharmacist Joe Davis and his wife, Dufferin. After Rachel went upstairs to settle into a small, private room, Jackie released his anger and told the threesome, "I never want another trip like that one." Jackie told Smith and Rowe he was ready to return to California. They argued with him to reconsider and sleep on it, and they were successful in convincing Robinson to stay.

The enormity of the challenge of crossing baseball's color line, accentuated by the awful trip to Florida, had become crystal clear to Jackie. His four-letter career as an athlete in college at UCLA and his World War II service as an officer in the U.S. Cavalry would carry no weight. There was no practice scheduled for Sunday, but Jackie and Rachel had to travel another 40 miles that day to Seminole County. Because there was an overabundance of postwar talent and Rickey had to work through nearly 200 prospects, he decided to keep the Dodgers in Daytona Beach and move the Royals to rural Sanford, Florida's celery capital. Rickey had arranged for them to stay with Mr. and Mrs. David Brock, a prominent black couple, at their large home, with its wide veranda. The team's lakefront hotel, the Mayfair, would not accept them.

Sanford, Florida

Anxiously, Jackie Robinson suited up in his Montreal Royals uniform for the first time on Monday, March 4, and reported to the park at 9:30 in the morning along with Johnny Wright. They were immediately stopped by reporters who largely ignored Wright but peppered Robinson with questions. When asked, "What would you do if one of these pitchers threw at your head?" Jackie replied, "I'd duck!" Dodgers scout Clyde Sukeforth then introduced Robinson to the Montreal manager, Clay Hopper. After two days of practice, Rickey and Hopper decided to switch Robinson's playing position to see if he could work out as a first or second baseman, rather than a shortstop where he was experienced.

Jackie's concern about competing with veteran players to remain on the Royals was interrupted when racism intruded. Branch Rickey had miscalculated the degree to which Jim Crow was entrenched in Sanford. As an example, an inanimate object, a second-hand piano, purchased in 1924 from the courthouse for use in a segregated school in nearby Oviedo, was filed as a "Negro Piano" in the school board's record; living human beings challenging segregation certainly would not be tolerated. A large group of white residents had met with the mayor of Sanford and demanded that Robinson and Wright be run out of town. At dinnertime on March 5, Sanford officials informed the Royals that black and white players would not be allowed on the same playing field together. Fearing that a mob might threaten them at the Brock house, Rickey sent Wright and the Robinsons immediately back to Daytona Beach. Deeply disturbed by the situation, Jackie talked about quitting and returning to the Negro Leagues, but Smith and Rowe again persuaded him to hang on.

More:http://www.jimcrowhistory.org/resources/lessonplans/hs_es_jackie_robinson.htm

 

[LambChop]

True, but at close contact, I would expect that the arterial spurt would have had GZ covered in blood since the 2.5 liters that would be the blood loss before death would not all be contained in the chest cavity.

Okay, now Mary C. claims she saw GZ pressing down on TM's back. What would that have done if TM was still alive??

 

[annalia]

Yes the man in white was TM greys would appear as white at night ,GZ had on red shirt unless something different has come out.Red does not look like white at night .

It was reported as a red jacket, not red shirt.

JMHO

 

[jjenny]

What was he wearing under his jacket?

So the idea is, during this fight that lasted several minutes, Zimmerman is going to be taking his jacket off and then putting it back on?

 

[rotterdam]

if you go by the times that they have put on all the 911 calls including Zimmermans, which lead to many of the experts who are pontificating about the case to remark on how incredibly tight the timeline is. Apparently in this one instance SPD wasted no time responding to this call

They probably had cars close by.Still amazing they arrived so fast .I can just hear, it is George again and not taking his call too serious.

 

[m00c0w]

What was he wearing under his jacket?

Not sure, but did anyone report him putting any clothing items back on? When the police came, he was still in a red jacket.

 

[claudicici]

I've been debating for a while whether to come into this thread because what I may say might be unpopular and I'm not here at all to stir up anything. Just want to know some answers like everyone. They are juts my opinions.

The whole deal about the dispatcher saying what they said isn't even an order,imo. It is more like a suggestion. There is a slant and bias against GZ in the media that needs to stop. What I'm saying is not condoning what GZ has done, but not all the facts are clear, but according to witness' they were fighting over the gun because it was in his waistband.

There are several things that come to mind. This racial thing for one. GZ didn't know he was even black anyway considering TM wore and hoodie, it was dark and it was raining. And why was TM wearing a hoodie on a Florida night that is warm anyway?

Next;Did GZ make it clear who he was and his intent? Did TM think he was being robbed? These are all curious questions that need to be answered. I don't believe it is 1st degree murder either. Because there was an altercation and it seems GZ used it as a last resort because maybe, juts maybe TM would have used it on him. Don't know just speculating on that last part.

Again the media has truly stirred up hornets nest without having any facts to throw out there just to fit a certain narrative which is going to cause riots among other things. They have their own agenda.

Having said all that it is tragic either way you look at it and someone is dead.Which shouldn't have happened.

Did you listen to the actual 911 call? It answers all your questions.
"You don't need to do that" is not a suggestion when you listen to the way it is said.
I wear a hoodie when it's raining even when it's hot in Texas.My daughter wears a hoodie every day even when it's hot.
GZ made it clear that he did NOT think he was being robbed.He was worried about Trayvon "walking and looking"
He knew Trayvon was black because he said so in the 911 call.
So what should activists do in your opinion? How should they deal with the situation?WHY IS GZ NOT BEING ARRESTED????

 

[m00c0w]

Okay, now Mary C. claims she saw GZ pressing down on TM's back. What would that have done if TM was still alive??

If it was a severed or perforated aorta, nothing at all.