17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #15

[cityslick]

LE arriving on the scene is not going to shoot anyone. They will put you at gunpoint - especially if the "gun holder" puts his hands up - or even lays it on the ground. The second you see LE on scene lay it on the ground in front of you. LE will draw and order you to drop it - they aren't just going to shoot.

By re-holstering it - it was now out of sight and that could be more dangerous in that situation. What if he hadn't told LE about the gun and when LE was patting him down found it? Could be a very dangerous situation.

Put the gun on the ground between your feet - unless people are very close to you - no one is going to try to grab it and, in this situation, I don't think anyone else was going to draw a gun and fire at you.

Besides we're talking a matter of seconds here. gz hung up with 911 - 7:15; gf's call disconnected 7:16; LE arrived on scene 7:17.



JMHO

BBM

But he did. The first words out of his mouth was 'I shot him'. IMO I think he thought he was doing the right thing by putting the gun away (because that's what they train you to do, reholster). Keep in mind he may have been in shock that he did it instinctively too.

 

[annalia]

IMO I think the gun came out during the scuffle, not before. TM's own words (or lack thereof), when he was on the phone proves this. I just don't believe he wouldn't of said something like 'this guy has a gun' if he saw the gun out when GZ approached him.

No it doesn't, not at all.

It could easily show that Trayvon didn't see the gun until GZ got right up to him. The gf didn't hear anything after the initial contact, Trayvon wasn't saying anything to his GF at the moment of the initial contact when according to her, GZ came up upon Trayvon.

JMHO

 

[w1df10wr]

From page 4 of 7 page article - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...a-review-of-ideals.html?_r=1&pagewanted=4&hpw -
~"George would stick up for a chubby boy in the neighborhood who was being bullied, recalled ~minors name edited out~ (who, like Stephanie, asked that his last name not be used). “And if George saw bullies walking by his house, he would pull out his hose and spray them down and tell them they were wasting their time and to go and do something else.”~

Unfortunally, the article doesn't clarify how recently that happened. IMO, GZ has a history of acting on his thoughts of others behavior.

 

[CathyinTexas]

I've not seen a quote from police that Zimmerman said "homie". I didn't hear his father say it either, but I only listened once. Wasn't this what Tracy Martin said the police told him? Didn't Tracy Martin also demonstrate where Trayon was laying when he was shot, and the police said that information was not given to Tracy?

At this point I am going to believe Tracy Martin over the police given what has transpired and how they disregarded eye witness testimony or tried to change it.

 

[Adrienne37]

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...n-case-florida-shooting-race-george-zimmerman

My heart breaks for the parents...I've been there and can tell you, the day my mother buried her son (my only sibling), she too died that day, especially tragic to be shot in the street and left there to die, alone... A piece of her died along with my brother..It's truly disheartening to hear folk say in very few words, that Trayvon asked for this to happen..that it's okay to take someone's life over suspicions in the others mind..and Travyon wasn't a child..so utterly disprespectful and adds insult to injury to this family...

GZ's mentality creeps through a little more each time someone opens their mouths on his behalf..I believe him to be looking for vigilante justice and he's the one to do it...just utter the right words and this will blow over...NOT..I so hope this investigation, The Grand Jury sees this for what it is..and GZ will be arrested on a first degree murder charge with a hate crime attached to it..

I pray for justice for Trayvon and his parents...lease:

I'm so sorry LLL that you have had to personally experience what it's like to lose a loved on in such a horrific way. Thankfully I haven't, and don't ever want to be in a position to deal with something like that. I agree with you 100%, I've felt from the moment I heard the disgusting words that he uttered under his breath that this would qualify as a hate crime. Also, I believe the moment he stepped out of that vehicle with his loaded weapon, he formed intent and should be tried for 1st degree murder. I just want him arrested and off the streets. He shouldn't be allowed to roam the streets with the rest of us.



~jmo~

 

[CathyinTexas]

I believe GZ's dad said he said, "homie". This makes me believe that their friend Joe Oliver may have come up with that scenario. He is after all the resident black friend. He looks to be in his late 30's early 40's which would put him in the "homie" era. Being that he is out of touch with black youngsters he doesn't realize that they now use cali terms alot like "dude". Now, if he said, (like TM girlfriend said TM said, "there is a dude following me") that TM had said, "what's up dude" that would have been more believable.

What made me even more suspicious was when GZ's dad said that TM said to GZ after he was shot "you got me". I seriously doubt any words uttered out of that poor child's mouth after being shot. It was a close shot so he most likely died instanly and judging from his screams on the 911 calls he would not have uttered "you shot me" or "you got me" after being shot so close. Horrific.

I agree. A lawyer on Dr. Drew said that if a jury believes he lied on even one thing they can disregard his testimony on everything. I hope this is what happens.

 

[cityslick]

No it doesn't, not at all.

It could easily show that Trayvon didn't see the gun until GZ got right up to him. The gf didn't hear anything after the initial contact, Trayvon wasn't saying anything to his GF at the moment of the initial contact when according to her, GZ came up upon Trayvon.

JMHO

The girlfriend heard GZ talk, did she not? If GZ had his gun out and drawn, TM would of seen it, I have no doubt in my mind.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

BBM

But he did. The first words out of his mouth was 'I shot him'. IMO I think he thought he was doing the right thing by putting the gun away (because that's what they train you to do, reholster). Keep in mind he may have been in shock that he did it instinctively too.

I agree about him admitting right off. But that was a precarious situation to put any LE in to. Now, you have a shooter admitting that he shot and then telling them "the gun is in my belt" (or whatever he said). That now means the officer has to approach you and take that gun from you. Close contact. Scarey. What if the shooter goes for it just as you (officer) does. IIRC the report says that the officer retrieved the gun and not that GZ was ordered to remove it and lay it on the ground.

As for "instinctively" - IIRC (and I don't have the link) GZ had only had the gun for months. He had never shot (and killed) anyone. So what his instincts would be in that situation is irrevelant. In fact, I would think - most instincts would have been to drop it - you just shot someone and killed them - that's pretty horriffic. To have the presence of mind to re-holster the gun - IDK.

I just think GZ made it more dangerous and I bet that officer that approached and retrieved it was quite apprenhensive about doing it. If GZ would have even flinched - could have been nasty. KWIM?



JMHO

 

[CathyinTexas]

Helpless children.

It is obvious that Trayvon was helpless, though he called for help

 

[Concerned Papa]

I was going through the police report and noticed this:

Sounds like Officer Smith is telling them:

"I don't know nothing, I didn't do nothing, and don't you be trying to get me caught up in this mess!" :floorlaugh:

 

[annalia]

The girlfriend heard GZ talk, did she not? If GZ had his gun out and drawn, TM would of seen it, I have no doubt in my mind.

The gf heard nothing after the inital "why are you following me" and "what are you doing here, then a push, the phone went dead. that probably took seconds.

So how in the world does that mean that she would have heard Trayvon say he saw a gun, or that he may not have seen the gun until GZ said, what are you doing here?

You think Trayvon had to say, OMG he's gotta gun! as soon as he said, why are you following me?

It's not plausible to you that Trayon saw the gun or the gun came out right at the initial exchange or right after. Ok, you are certainly entitled to think what you like.

JMHO

 

[suzihawk]

IMO I think the gun came out during the scuffle, not before. TM's own words (or lack thereof), when he was on the phone proves this. I just don't believe he wouldn't of said something like 'this guy has a gun' if he saw the gun out when GZ approached him.

The girlfriend heard GZ talk, did she not? If GZ had his gun out and drawn, TM would of seen it, I have no doubt in my mind.

Have you ever heard the term 'scared speechless'?

 

[suspicious1]

I agree. A lawyer on Dr. Drew said that if a jury believes he lied on even one thing they can disregard his testimony on everything. I hope this is what happens.

I feel the same way.

The truth never change.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I am almost an entire thread behind but wanted to chime in this morning.

IIRC, in several pics and vids there is what I would call an inground water meter surrounded by concrete. From the enhanced still shots of Zimmerman's head (non life threatening) injury I think it came from the meter. There is a slight sunken part of the actual meter whereby the lid can be pulled up. The side of that would be iron and a straight edge that could have made the straight line injury to the back of GZ's head. The injury certainly wasn't gushing blood or even a serious one, IMO.

It is my firm belief that GZ stalked poor Trayvon when he got out of his vehicle. GZ was the agressor, IMO. Trayvon literally 'stood his ground' when GZ confronted him. Trayvon was attempting to protect himself from this agressor from what I think.

If you look at the pic that has been circulating of GZ in a suit and tie, it appears to me that GZ has had a broken nose in the past. I have seen boxers with noses like that. So, maybe GZ does have a broken nose but maybe Trayvon didn't break it as ZG alleges.

I am someone who thinks that Trayvon's civil rights were trodded upon. He, as a victim, had a right to a thorough investigation of his shooting. I believe that Trayvon was indeed racially profiled by ZG. I further believe that GZ did utter a racial slur. At least that is what I hear on the 911 tape of GZ's. JMO.

It is my opinion that GZ's courage came from that 9MM he packed.

I want full justice for Trayvon and his family. GB them.

My entire post is just my opinion and should be taken as such.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I'm so sorry LLL that you have had to personally experience what it's like to lose a loved on in such a horrific way. Thankfully I haven't, and don't ever want to be in a position to deal with something like that. I agree with you 100%, I've felt from the moment I heard the disgusting words that he uttered under his breath that this would qualify as a hate crime. Also, I believe the moment he stepped out of that vehicle with his loaded weapon, he formed intent and should be tried for 1st degree murder. I just want him arrested and off the streets. He shouldn't be allowed to roam the streets with the rest of us.



~jmo~

Thank you Adrienne..I thought you'd have remembered from the Caylee thread..it's a heartache, no doub t and to hear people trash talk Trayvon gets my ire up...That child only wanted to get home and GZ stepped in his path...thinking he's a cop of sorts...self inflated ego, discrimation towards a certain portion of 'his' community...walking tall, big man on campus with a loaded 9mm cops usually use...He believes he's a cop and has a mentality as if he's Sanford's saviour...or Twin Lakes saviour...I'll bet the police twinge every time they hear his voice calling in a suspicous black male...:jail:

 

[cityslick]

I agree about him admitting right off. But that was a precarious situation to put any LE in to. Now, you have a shooter admitting that he shot and then telling them "the gun is in my belt" (or whatever he said). That now means the officer has to approach you and take that gun from you. Close contact. Scarey. What if the shooter goes for it just as you (officer) does. IIRC the report says that the officer retrieved the gun and not that GZ was ordered to remove it and lay it on the ground.

As for "instinctively" - IIRC (and I don't have the link) GZ had only had the gun for months. He had never shot (and killed) anyone. So what his instincts would be in that situation is irrevelant. In fact, I would think - most instincts would have been to drop it - you just shot someone and killed them - that's pretty horriffic. To have the presence of mind to re-holster the gun - IDK.

I just think GZ made it more dangerous and I bet that officer that approached and retrieved it was quite apprenhensive about doing it. If GZ would have even flinched - could have been nasty. KWIM?



JMHO

BBM

I put that on the officer. I'm not sure what the correct procedure is, I would think he would of instructed GZ to take the gun and put it on the ground instead of approaching him. I'd have a bigger problem of him putting the gun away if he didn't admit he had a gun and that he used it as soon as he saw the officer. He obviously wasn't trying to conceal anything. I don't think his thought in that split second was, I got to make this look as innocent as possible when the first words you say to an LE officer is you shot someone.

 

[suzihawk]

I am almost an entire thread behind but wanted to chime in this morning.

IIRC, in several pics and vids there is what I would call an inground water meter surrounded by concrete. From the enhanced still shots of Zimmerman's head (non life threatening) injury I think it came from the meter. There is a slight sunken part of the actual meter whereby the lid can be pulled up. The side of that would be iron and a straight edge that could have made the straight line injury to the back of GZ's head. The injury certainly wasn't gushing blood or even a serious one, IMO.

It is my firm belief that GZ stalked poor Trayvon when he got out of his vehicle. GZ was the agressor, IMO. Trayvon literally 'stood his ground' when GZ confronted him. Trayvon was attempting to protect himself from this agressor from what I think.

If you look at the pic that has been circulating of GZ in a suit and tie, it appears to me that GZ has had a broken nose in the past. I have seen boxers with noses like that. So, maybe GZ does have a broken nose but maybe Trayvon didn't break it as ZG alleges.

I am someone who thinks that Trayvon's civil rights were trodded upon. He, as a victim, had a right to a thorough investigation of his shooting. I believe that Trayvon was indeed racially profiled by ZG. I further believe that GZ did utter a racial slur. At least that is what I hear on the 911 tape of GZ's. JMO.

It is my opinion that GZ's courage came from that 9MM he packed.

I want full justice for Trayvon and his family. GB them.

My entire post is just my opinion and should be taken as such.

Good eye and nice catch, LA!

And I totally agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Thank you Adrienne..I thought you'd have remembered from the Caylee thread..it's a heartache, no doub t and to hear people trash talk Trayvon gets my ire up...That child only wanted to get home and GZ stepped in his path...thinking he's a cop of sorts...self inflated ego, discrimation towards a certain portion of 'his' community...walking tall, big man on campus with a loaded 9mm cops usually use...He believes he's a cop and has a mentality as if he's Sanford's saviour...or Twin Lakes saviour...I'll bet the police twinge every time they hear his voice calling in a suspicous black male...:jail:

BBM

And there in lies the rub. I, too, think that the local LE must have had their own opinions of GZ. But or so, why did they protect him when they got to the scene? Why didn't they take him in, charge him, book him, and be somewhat happy that they got him off the streets (and outta their hair)?

That is one particular detail in this case that I just can't get a handle on.


JMHO

 

[Wise Old Owl]

BBM

I put that on the officer. I'm not sure what the correct procedure is, I would think he would of instructed GZ to take the gun and put it on the ground instead of approaching him. I'd have a bigger problem of him putting the gun away if he didn't admit he had a gun and that he used it as soon as he saw the officer. He obviously wasn't trying to conceal anything. I don't think his thought in that split second was, I got to make this look as innocent as possible when the first words you say to an LE officer is you shot someone.

Well either way its handled is dangerous. If an officer orders someone to retrive a gun from their person and lay it on the ground - the officer is still taking the risk of once the gun is pulled that the shooter doesn't shoot again. And, if the officer decides to approach and retrieve it - then there is that danger of the shooter also trying to go for it.

GZ put everyone in danger that night with that gun. But that's JMHO

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

BBM

And there in lies the rub. I, too, think that the local LE must have had their own opinions of GZ. But or so, why did they protect him when they got to the scene? Why didn't they take him in, charge him, book him, and be somewhat happy that they got him off the streets (and outta their hair)?

That is one particular detail in this case that I just can't get a handle on.


JMHO

Their hands were tied because he uttered the correct words??? IDK, but they truly should have held him 72 hours while the detective investigated. By not doing so, they brought a huge problem to their precinct..now they too will be under investigation and rightfully so..SPD has had lots of allegations about how they treat the minority...how they look the other way when it's one of their own children in the mix..how they are corrupt...don't ask for a link just google them...