17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[Velouria]

From the few appearances I've seen of Sonner, I think he's in WAY over his head. But, then again, I said that about Baez so...


(I wish we could open and entirely separate thread for the pages upon pages of posts about the dispatcher's instructions re: following and whether or not it's legal, appropriate or wise, etc. Round and round we go)

MOO

BBM

IMO, you didn't underestimate Baez, suzi. You OVERestimated that jury!

 

[flourish]

Hi I'm totally behind here, and at work so I can't catch up but did want to make a comment before I get working. Some folks would have us believe that Trayvon doesn't "qualify" to be advocated for as a child, because he was or was not "helpless" enough or something???

I"m sure a lot of us have heard of the CASA program--Court Appointed Special Advocates...they advocate for children in the court systems...anyone have any documentation stating they only assist children who they deem helpless, or do they serve all children under the age of 18?
TIA

 

[gxm]

But wasn't that because he was concerned about the child's safety ?

Yes. It was. I don't have the PDF on this computer so I can't give the page number and call date, but he was concerned for the safety of the child who was walking to school alone on a busy street.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[rotterdam]

BBM

This is really appalling, but I can't say it's too surprising. From the very first time he opened his mouth he seemed to have a certain agenda. Many of us said at the time that he wasn't helping GZ by what he was saying.

And obviously GZ approves or he wouldn't have left him that thank you message.

If there is a trial I hope Taffe is called.

JMHO

BBM May be Taaffe is a home owner and not a renter? Considering possible HOA litigation.

 

[mercuriod]

And TM would of been arrested for assault. Don't you agree?

No I do not agree, TM would have RIGHTLY been able to invoke the SYG protection, especially when the police found the loaded gun on GZ.

 

[Elley Mae]

In a written sworn to statement in a homicide case Officer Smith said Zimmerman was wearing a red jacket.

You can find that statement here: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

Sanford City released a video showing Zimmerman in said jacket. Here is the link to video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WWDNbQUgm4&feature=youtu.be



I took a still from that video and here it is.

Now in my opinion that still clearly shows Zimmerman in a red and black jacket but Officer Smith swore it was a red jacket. He is a trained witness like all LE and knows the importance of what he puts in a police report and knows how to observe.

In a court of law a witness not telling the truth on one fact can draw in the questioning of other facts he swore to. I can see a lawyer asking Officer Smith if his hearing memory is any better then his visual memory.

ALL IMO

I completely understand, years ago I got a speeding ticket:blushing73 vet)
I went to court to fight it (why not) the whole time the officer explained to the judge about seeing me do this that and the other he failed to ID me by name only as she, her. My lawyer stood and stated to the judge that at this time the officer has failed to Identify my client. The judge said Case Dismissed. Cops have a tough job

 

[Adrienne37]

In a written sworn to statement in a homicide case Officer Smith said Zimmerman was wearing a red jacket.

You can find that statement here: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

Sanford City released a video showing Zimmerman in said jacket. Here is the link to video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WWDNbQUgm4&feature=youtu.be



I took a still from that video and here it is.

Now in my opinion that still clearly shows Zimmerman in a red and black jacket but Officer Smith swore it was a red jacket. He is a trained witness like all LE and knows the importance of what he puts in a police report and knows how to observe.

In a court of law a witness not telling the truth on one fact can draw in the questioning of other facts he swore to. I can see a lawyer asking Officer Smith if his hearing memory is any better then his visual memory.

ALL IMO

I think this is just a testament to the shoddy police work done in this case and further supports the theory that they were fully intending to sweep it under the rug. Had it not been for Trayvon's parents, this is exactly what was going to happen. I am so glad they have stood up and screamed for justice for Trayvon.


~jmo~

 

[rossva]

And, if you attacked some one like that, and they were armed, they could shoot you just as Zimmerman did Martin, fearing that since you just broke their kneecap, you might continue to beating them.

Does any one know at what point in the encounter Martin even realized Zimmerman was there? How long between that point and their first verbal ( or physical, which ever came first) encounter was there.

My point is why would Martin think some one that pulled over in a gated community and got out of their vehicle did so for the sole purpose of following him? The fact it was a gated community, and Zimmerman was in a vehicle inside that gated community would have led me to believe Zimmerman was a resident, or a guest of one, and belonged there. It would never have crossed my mind he stopped his vehicle and got out to purposely follow me till he spoke to me.

I am a female, and I can promise that if I am being followed at night when I am alone, and I make an attempt to get away from the person, and they continue to follow, then they would in fact be in severe danger of having a kneecap busted. If they make me afraid, I am going to do what I must because I would far rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

You can expect nothing less if you make someone afraid in that manner IMO.

 

[gxm]

BBM

There seems very little question to me where he was. He was at some point toward the beginning of the back sidewalk between the townhouses.



Robert Zimmerman clarified his position even further in his interview:



The “back sidewalk” is between and behind two rows of residences whose addresses would be on the front or opposite sides of the buildings.

This particular group of buildings and sidewalk are the only place in the development that meets the qualifiers of headed towards the back entrance, being behind the townhomes, and being blind to any street address.

I'm embarrassed to ask this because I should know already, but where is TM's home on this map? Is it towards the end of the row of buildings (far left) or in the area of the confrontation (on the right).

TIA.

 

[songline]

It sounds totally random to me to think that a random person walking through the neighborhood looks suspicious for no reason

< mod snip >

I was in a department store one day many years ago, on the way out the guard stopped me and someone else. We both got searched;
I was in the ladies department next to a well dressed lady that was apparently shop lifting&#8230;
They thought we may be together. They did apologize to me, but she was arrested. I did not get mad. I understood,
I was a bit shaken and the store Manager gave me a 10% discount gift for my next time in the store.

 

[songline]

i'm embarrassed to ask this because i should know already, but where is tm's home on this map? Is it towards the end of the row of buildings (far left) or in the area of the confrontation (on the right).

Tia.

far left

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I completely understand, years ago I got a speeding ticket:blushing73 vet)
I went to court to fight it (why not) the whole time the officer explained to the judge about seeing me do this that and the other he failed to ID me by name only as she, her. My lawyer stood and stated to the judge that at this time the officer has failed to Identify my client. The judge said Case Dismissed. Cops have a tough job

This case hinges on that coat. There is probably no piece of evidence in this case that is more important then that coat and that cop got the description of it wrong. IMO

 

[suzihawk]

It is not against the law to follow some one down the street, or one a sidewalk. Simply following is NOT a predatory act. Nothing Zimmerman did, including, if he did, asking Martin what he was doing there, was illegal. If the following Zimmerman was doing was illegal, why wasn't he arrested for that, nevermind anything else?

That's exactly what a special panel has been brought in to investigate.

 

[gxm]

far left

Thanks, songline. That's what I thought but people keep saying that he was "close to home" so I figured maybe I had it backwards.

 

[Sensei]

And TM would of been arrested for assault. Don't you agree?

he would have been arrested and drug tested and questioned and there may or may not have been charges against him, but he would be alive.

 

[frenchvixen]

Well I believe TM started the fight, and I don't consider that defending himself - my point was that if a person is attacked for following someone, THEY have the right to defend themselves.

Those were the words that GZ said to TM (according to the GF listening on the phone). So, I doubt that TM just attacked GZ from behind or b/c he was following him. According to the earwitness GZ asked TM a question. What happened after that no one know other than GZ and the deceased TM.

 

[Boytwnmom]

that his actions could not absolutely, unquestionably be determined to be lawful, they would likely depend on his intentions in following TM. I do wonder what he planned to do. You see someone, determine they're suspicious and, based on his comments about TM reaching in his waistband and having something in his hands, I think he may have concluded TM was armed. So, he calls 911 on this armed guy he thinks is a criminal and then, instead of just letting LE do their thing, he still follows him and seems to get particularly agitated about seeing TM run, followed by his concern that "these a%$holes always get away". So, why was he following him and what did he plan to do when he caught up?

I just find the whole thing infuriating. GZ was totally wrong in his assumptions and conclusions and he escalated the situation to a place it never needed to be IMO. If he had just asked TM a question at the beginning, if he just stayed in his truck and waited for LE then at least his wrong assumptions about this kid wouldn't have ended with the kid dead.

Ahhh illegal detainment, did GZ detain him? I don't think it would be illegal for GZ to ask him "what are you doing here?" Now if he detained him, well that's a different story, then it gets iffy. I personally don't know what happened between the two but I think there's a witness.

 

[songline]

I think this is just a testament to the shoddy police work done in this case and further supports the theory that they were fully intending to sweep it under the rug. Had it not been for Trayvon's parents, this is exactly what was going to happen. I am so glad they have stood up and screamed for justice for Trayvon.


~jmo~

< mod snip > but by an investigation and understanding
as much as possible so that we can string the dots together.
Now all we have is two victims.
While they definitly do deseve answers, the way it has shaped up is no less dispicable then the
job the law has done so far.
:moo::moo::moo:

 

[rossva]

The entire time, from Zimmerman first calling 911 until Martin was shot lasted how long? Exactly how long was Zimmerman following Martin? By Zimmerman's own 911 calls he did not have Martin in sight the entire time. what would make Martin suspect he was being followed? How would Martin know that Zimmerman wasn't simply walking from his vehicle to his residence?

I live in a gated community, and I see people I don't know with in the community (some scary looking, some larger than me, some in groups) walking behind me, stopping, getting out of vehicles, and seemingly following me, yet I have never considered calling 911 and reporting them.

Can you site any source backing up you claim "most adults would have done so" in regards to calling 911 in that case?

And if someone is afraid due to being followed, you can't say that they don't have a right to ask WHY someone is following them.

That is not "instigating" anything. In fact, it would have been well within Trayvon's rights to call 911 and report Zimmerman at that point, and most adults would have done so.

And I tell you what, I would have been running for the back porch myself.

If Zimmerman chose to chase down a stranger, that is NOT "stand your ground" or "castle doctrine." What Trayvon did to defend himself probably would be, though.

 

[rossva]

Bbm alledgedly

yes we do - he told his girlfriend he felt threatened and she told him to run.