17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[songline]

But he had already exercised his remedy for when you see a suspicious person he had called LE. Unless you actually SEE someone in the act of committing a felony it is not your duty, your job, or even welcome help to the local LE to follow them and or confront them....It was within GZ's right to believe that TM was up to no good. but he crossed the line when he decided to DO something about it and follow him. IMO JMHO and stuff.

Obviously there are 2 minutes we do not know about.
therein lies the answer.

 

[fran]

The majority of this week's Websleuths' Radio was regarding this case. If you have the time and capability of listening on your computer, you may benefit some insight into this case. Mr. Richard Hornsby, an attorney in Florida gives his legal analysis of the case, based on Florida law.

I found it personally very informative.

fran


Websleuths Radio / Trayvon / Richard Hornsby/Susan Powell
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2012/04/02/websleuths-radio

 

[songline]

He was already out of his truck and following Trayvon when he was told "we don't need you to do that." JMO

I am not so sure about that at all, how are you that sure?

 

[HiHater]

But wasn't that because he was concerned about the child's safety ?

I'm pretty sure the report is categorized as "suspicious activity." I would have to double check, so I'll say JMO IMO MOO.

Besides, why not simply ask the child what's wrong? Where are your parents? Are you lost? Can I help you with something?

Nope, just call 911. :waitasec:

 

[rossva]

1) Martin never ran.
2) We do not know if either Zimmerman or Martin altered their course.
3) There is no proof Zimmerman ran.

It does not matter if they were both incidentally going in the same direction. Zimmerman had just as much right as Martin did to walk where they did.

There was no stalking.

except that is not what we have here. To make this a valid argument you have to have person number one begin to run to get away from person number two, and alter his course in an effort to get away, then have person number two run after him and alter his course as well....

There can be no argument that GZ was simply following TM because they were both incidentally going in the same direction.

 

[kimpage]

:sick:

(from the article)
"I more or less patrolled this sector right here (holds up arms), whereas George took care of the entire complex," he said.

He added: "I would see him in the evening doing his patrol and we would wave, and he would walk his Rottweiler through the complex."


Nice to know that he too has a problem following the law. I would love to know if Zimmerman was packing during his "patrolling." I would also love to know if Taaffe has a weapon on his person when he is doing his patrolling?

~jmo~

But I thought Neighborhood watch is not to patrol.....So Taaffe admits GZ did patrol??????WOW IMHO JMHO and all that!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gin]

I am not so sure about that at all, how are you that sure?

I think George verbally admitted to the 911 dispatcher he was following Trayvon.

 

[Allusonz]

Craig Sonner has never defended a client accused in a homicide, but he now represents George Zimmerman, the man at the center of one of the nation's most racially divisive shootings in years.

And Sonner predicts he'll have no problem clearing Zimmerman.

"I believed his story of how he was defending himself," said 47-year-old Sonner, a one-man Altamonte Springs law firm. "I've already got a number of experts lined up to take this one … I don't think we're going to have a problem exonerating George Zimmerman."

Sonner had not paid much attention to the case and all the media reports about it until Zimmerman's father called, asking for help.

"Then George called me," Sonner said.

(snip)

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._defense-team-lawrence-o-donnell-wofl-channel

From this same link it is said by this lawyer that GZ passed a voice stress test adminstered by SPD.

"He is confident of their client's self-defense claim, Uhrig told WOFL, in part because Zimmerman has already passed a voice-stress test, something similar to a lie-detector test, administered by Sanford police"

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._defense-team-lawrence-o-donnell-wofl-channel

 

[Sensei]

1) Martin never ran.
2) We do not know if either Zimmerman or Martin altered their course.
3) There is no proof Zimmerman ran.

It does not matter if they were both incidentally going in the same direction. Zimmerman had just as much right as Martin did to walk where they did.

There was no stalking.

that argument could cocievably be made if GZ had not admitted to the dispatcher that he was following TM. They were not both incidentally going to the same place. And according to GZ, TM ran...GZ said so.

 

[lillygator]

I'm pretty sure the report is categorized as "suspicious activity." I would have to double check, so I'll say JMO IMO MOO.

Besides, why not simply ask the child what's wrong? Where are your parents? Are you lost? Can I help you with something?

Nope, just call 911. :waitasec:

ok, this was not a 5 year old....he is tall and had a hood < mod snip >, it was raining.....asking where are your parents just doesn't fly as the first thing I would think to ask....

 

[w1df10wr]

And what makes us think he was enraged? He sounded very calm and collected on the 911 call?

He had been living there for many years. Had he ever attacked anyone that he had called in about before this?

A minor who knows GZ, has said he sprayed bullies with water previously.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...a-review-of-ideals.html?_r=2&pagewanted=4&hpw -
From page 4 of 7 page article - ~"George would stick up for a chubby boy in the neighborhood who was being bullied, recalled ~minors name edited out~ (who, like Stephanie, asked that his last name not be used). “And if George saw bullies walking by his house, he would pull out his hose and spray them down and tell them they were wasting their time and to go and do something else.”~

Unfortunally, the article doesn't clarify how recently that happened.

&

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57403716/friend-of-martin-shooter-id-do-the-same-thing/ -

~"Do you think he did the right thing by confronting Treyvon Martin?"

"Yes."~

Is GZ's neighbor / fellow watch volunteer FT, confirming that GZ started the confrontation?

 

[Adrienne37]

But I thought Neighborhood watch is not to patrol.....So Taaffe admits GZ did patrol??????WOW IMHO JMHO and all that!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly - not only did Zimmerman take it upon himself not to follow instructions, it appears that Taaffe did the same thing by "patrolling" his little area.


~jmo~

 

[Etilema]

I think George verbally admitted to the 911 dispatcher he was following Trayvon.

Yes, he asked, "Are you following him?" GZ replied, "Yes." THAT's when the operator said, "We don't need you to do that."

 

[Velouria]

WE ALL size people up one way or another. GZ had that right too.
It was not random at all.
I may have possibly sized him up the same way, and my family is very mixed.

GZ had him "sized up right". Meaning what, exactly? TM was unarmed and there was no evidence that he was engaged in criminal activity. GZ is the one with the police record.

IMO

 

[songline]

And if someone is afraid due to being followed, you can't say that they don't have a right to ask WHY someone is following them.

That is not "instigating" anything. In fact, it would have been well within Trayvon's rights to call 911 and report Zimmerman at that point, and most adults would have done so.

And I tell you what, I would have been running for the back porch myself.

If Zimmerman chose to chase down a stranger, that is NOT "stand your ground" or "castle doctrine." What Trayvon did to defend himself probably would be, though.

IMO it was not wrong for TM to ask why are you following me, nor did it instigate a final blow.
What may have instigated the final blow was something that happened in the 2 minutes that we know nothing about.

I too may have dialed 911, I too may have gone onto someone&#8217;s porch and asked for help, but IF there was a physical altercation, then IF AND ONLY IF I had to use the gun, I would shoot but not shot to kill.
But someone told me today that when you get a gun you are trained that if you must shoot, then shoot to kill. I personally do not get it. but that is what I was told today. I do not like guns so I do not know anything about them.
I have no clue why people need to take them to go buy milk, I have no clue why people dont put the darn thing in safe, and take it out if there is reason.

 

[Gin]

But I thought Neighborhood watch is not to patrol.....So Taaffe admits GZ did patrol??????WOW IMHO JMHO and all that!!!!!!!!!!

JMO, I'm thinking the condo association's insurance company is thrilled with all the admissions-they know they won't be liable for all the deliberate, willful bad acts. (It's always in the fine print...)
The condo board must be feeling miserable. They know the truth is going to cost them dearly, and probably wishes Taafe would keep quiet.
The condo owners? I don't know if it's dawned on them that they are all at risk financially for this crazy scheme of their board and association endorsing a volunteer armed patrolman, but making it sound nicer by calling it a "neighborhood watch".

Me? I hope Taafe keeps talking.

 

[Adrienne37]

JMO, I'm thinking the condo association's insurance company is thrilled with all the admissions-they know they won't be liable for all the deliberate, willful bad acts. (It's always in the fine print...)
The condo board must be feeling miserable. They know the truth is going to cost them dearly, and probably wishes Taafe would keep quiet.
The condo owners? I don't know if it's dawned on them that they are all at risk financially for this crazy scheme of their board and association endorsing a volunteer armed patrolman, but making it sound nicer by calling it a "neighborhood watch".

Me? I hope Taafe keeps talking.

I said this yesterday - all of this is going to cost them and Zimmerman doesn't even own property in the community - he's just a renter!!


~jmo~:floorlaugh:

 

[rossva]

BBM How would Martin have known any of those these things?

Said (on the 911 call) several names?

Said (on the 911 call) he was following?

He was carry a CONCEALED weapon?

As far as Martin knew, another resident inside the gated community stopped his vehicle, got out and was walking in his direction. If that is reason to be feel threatened, we'd be experiencing a agraphobia pandemic.

And I ask, if Zimmerman is guilty of assault by the definition listed below, why wasn't/isn't he arrested for that while they determine other charges that he may or may not be arrested on?

No, but it could fit the definition of assault. In assault, even before anything happens, they take into account the fear factor that violence is imminent. And in this case it makes sense because George called Trayvon several names on the 911 tapes, said he was following him, and was packing a gun. If Trayvon felt threatened, he should have.

From Florida Statute

784.011&#8195;Assault.—
(1)&#8195;An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.
(2)&#8195;Whoever commits an assault shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

From this same link it is said by this lawyer that GZ passed a voice stress test adminstered by SPD.

"He is confident of their client's self-defense claim, Uhrig told WOFL, in part because Zimmerman has already passed a voice-stress test, something similar to a lie-detector test, administered by Sanford police"

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._defense-team-lawrence-o-donnell-wofl-channel

I think the wording there is pretty important. Did the Sanford police give it or did the lawyer give him one which is like a lie detector test the Sanford police give.

 

[rossva]

Continuely? IIRC the entire encounter from the time Zimmerman first contacted 911 till the shooting lasted what, 4 minutes or so? And the two lost sight of each other for at least part of the time, per the 911 call. At most Zimmerman was following him for a couple of minutes, a mere 120 seconds. Thats a very quick time to determine that some one with a vehicle inside a gated community is after you and become vey scared.

BBM. Trayvon must have been very scared, trying to figure out what was the deal with this strange guy who insisted on continually following him. It breaks my heart that Trayvon was a victim of a totally needless, senseless crime. And so we wait for justice.