17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[CHICANA]

I'm pretty sure the report is categorized as "suspicious activity." I would have to double check, so I'll say JMO IMO MOO.

Besides, why not simply ask the child what's wrong? Where are your parents? Are you lost? Can I help you with something?

Nope, just call 911. :waitasec:

True. But the parents might have issues with him approaching their child and many posters feel he shouldn't do more than just 'watch'.

 

[HiHater]

If you are talking about a very small apartment complex then you do not need a large sample at all.

The size of the apartment complex has nothing to do with it, because people from outside of the complex could have been coming in and committing the crimes. 8 burglaries in 15 months is not a lot of crime IMO...you would need more demographics to conclude anything.

JMO MOO IMO

 

[tlcya]

Well if it is not applied as they intended it to apply, then they didn't write it clearly enough, did they? Maybe they had a vision in their heads of what it should be used for, but I really doubt it worked out that way.

On that we are in total agreement which is why they are now talking of tightening it up to close up some of this perceived "looseness" with how it is currently being applied.

ETA This law and how loosely it can be interpreted is my big dog in this fight. It scares me that a law is in existence which basically says if you kill someone and then claim self defense you cannot be arrested. That is just begging for problems IMO and that is how it seems to be currently applied.

The possible abuses are frightening!

 

[songline]

GZ had his opportunity to ask Trayvon a question when Trayvon walked up to his car but GZ remained silent and spooked Tray. IMO, the continued following became harassment after that silent confrontation.

I do not see how it is harassment. I see that something escalated beyond where it needed to be.
JUST ASKING…
GZ should have said I am the watchman around here?
that would give TM reason to run and return another time, IF HE wanted to do something bad.

OR
GZ ask what are you doing here, are you lost? Can I help?
TM already thought he was following he would not have said My dad lives here - I am a guest - if you fear the guy you dont give him information.

 

[rotterdam]

That's fiction. None of us know what happened or what the witnesses said.

I am going by the 911 tapes. GZ reported to the dispatcher that Tray walked up to his car to check him out and ran after that. Of course, GZ could have made that whole story up too for some insane reason and Tray never walked up to his car.

 

[Chris_Texas]

So now we're going to blame the dispatcher because he wasn't direct enough??? It's pretty clear and obvious to most people that what the dispatcher said equals DON'T Do that!!! The phrase "we don't need" is just a more polite, less direct way of saying the same thing. In Japanese culture, being so direct is frowned upon as too aggressive...

More, the dispatcher firmly but politely suggested that Zimmerman stop. Zimmerman said okay. In other words, Zimmerman also lied to the police dispatcher.

We do not know what the dispatcher might have told GZ had GZ said no.

 

[Luckyswife]

Did TM call 911 to report that he was being followed? Or his parents?

 

[songline]

As they are the authors of the actual bill, I am assuming they claim it is being misapplied to this case because they know what they were trying to accomplish by introducing it and subsequently passing it - and this is NOT it.

I will take their word as the ultimate experts on this law, what it was intended to accomplish, how it was intended to be applied and whom it was intended to afford protection to.

:moo: :moo:
Regardless to the way the law was intended.
When you have one man dead and one man talking.
You have to investigate to the fullest.

 

[songline]

Did TM call 911 to report that he was being followed? Or his parents?

NO - TM did not call 911 or else we would have heard the tape by now.

 

[katydid23]

The size of the apartment complex has nothing to do with it, because people from outside of the complex could have been coming in and committing the crimes. 8 burglaries in 15 months is not a lot of crime IMO...you would need more demographics to conclude anything.

JMO MOO IMO

I guess it is all relative. I think 8 burglaries in 15 months is quite a bit. Especially considering a woman was in the home during one of them. Our neighborhood has only had one actual break-in in the past 2 years. Although we have had a rash of car break-ins, including two of ours.

The ring was eventually busted and it was a group of white college kids that were breaking into the cars. They were seen and described before they were caught and my son was laughing at his friend who is white and was stopped and questioned a few times. He said ' Finally someone else is being questioned besides me. '

 

[stmarysmead]

The problem is that following the "usual suspects" won't always work. Those 4 burglaries could very well have been committed by white people.

Of course they could have! And I agree that it's not an effective tactic. But if all SOLVED burgularies were committed by young blacks, IMO it means that GZ had a faactual non emotional..non racist reason for watching a sranger in tat demographc. It means that calling him a RACIST is refuted by the facts of the crime statistics that influenced him.

If white kids are constantly harrassing Black folks in a certain neighborhood, those Black residents are NOT racist to be wary of White stangers in that age group. Actually, EXPERIENCE has taught them to be watchful. That is different from "racism."

 

[suzihawk]

Totally disagree with you, I believe George showed premeditation in his 911 call, and we know he used racial slurs- even his own brother admitted that! I think GZ will be arrested and charged with murder following the Grand Jury investigation!

While I''m thoroughly convinced that Zimmerman uttered a particularly vile racial slur on the 911 tape, his brother claimed that the tape had been altered to make it sound like he did.

 

[songline]

The problem is that following the "usual suspects" won't always work. Those 4 burglaries could very well have been committed by white people.

True - could have - but did not...
Not based on what they found in that complex it was not white people.

 

[LinasK]

Of course they could have! And I agree that it's not an effective tactic. But if all SOLVED burgularies were committed by young blacks, IMO it means that GZ had a faactual non emotional..non racist reason for watching a sranger in tat demographc. It means that calling him a RACIST is refuted by the facts of the crime statistics that influenced him.

If white kids are constantly harrassing Black folks in a certain neighborhood, those Black residents are NOT racist to be wary of White stangers in that age group. Actually, EXPERIENCE has taught them to be watchful. That is different from "racism."

Not when he calls them "F***ing C**ns" and "A**holes that always get away!" Those are George's exact words, not mine!!

 

[JeannaT]

My two cents, statisticians cannot reliably predict anything from a sample of 8 cases. The larger the sample the more accurate the numbers will be. The point of statistics is to generalize results to the larger population. I have never seen a reliable study that included 8 variables.


JMO MOO IMO

Absolutely you can predict outcomes of 8 trials based on the outcome of the first 3.

If you're having fertility treatments, and you have enough eggs to do 8 attempts at implantation, and the first 3 fail the doc is likely to say this isn't working, it's unlikely that your pain and suffering and effort will be worth going through again based on all three known outcomes being failures.

People judge - correctly - the outcomes of future unknowns based on the outcomes of the knowns.

And 3 out of 8 is a good sample size. That's almost half the total trials, you know the outcome and it's the same.

 

[stmarysmead]

I guess it is all relative. I think 8 burglaries in 15 months is quite a bit. Especially considering a woman was in the home during one of them. Our neighborhood has only had one actual break-in in the past 2 years. Although we have had a rash of car break-ins, including two of ours.

The ring was eventually busted and it was a group of white college kids that were breaking into the cars. They were seen and described before they were caught and my son was laughing at his friend who is white and was stopped and questioned a few times. He said ' Finally someone else is being questioned besides me. '

Yes, race is part of a description. It should be no more than that. So if the kids are white, black or green...that's who the neighborhood is "on guard" to.

IMO, only ONE break-in...is frightening. For elderly folks , women alone, families who leave their kids alone afer school...we pray our neighbors will help watch out for them. There is no RACE in that. Black people are no less scared if there is a rash of breakins.

"Stalking"..."profiling"...those are words that refuse to recognize the human emotion of fear when our homes are being targeted by people of any color.

 

[songline]

Totally disagree with you, I believe George showed premeditation in his 911 call, and we know he used racial slurs- even his own brother admitted that! I think GZ will be arrested and charged with murder following the Grand Jury investigation!

We have all used a racial slur even about our own, whatever we may be or wherever we may come from. It does not make one a racist.
IMO A racist displays hatefulness toward particular groups. This would be consistent, not a one slur… Which incidentally I did not hear, but listened.

 

[mercuriod]

wow. He was standing up for a chubby kid who was being bullied by neighborhood kids. Normally that would be considered a good thing by most people here. Now it is seen as evidence that he is a cold blooded monster, imo.

What a normal Adult does when they stand up for a child that is being bullied is go have a discussion with the parents of the kids that are suspected bullies. What a normal Adult does is try to console the bullied child and try to find ways to help the child feel better about themself. A normal adult does not physically attack the kids by hosing them down every time they walk on a public side walk or public street that just happens to run past the adults home. I would in no way ever consider an adult attacking children a good thing, I would consider this psychotic behavior and if I were the children's parent I would be filing criminal charges against the adult that attacked my child. What it makes GZ is a bully imo.

As to your last line, no where in my post did I state that GZ is a cold blooded monster - those are your words, NOT mine.

 

[vlpate]

He said I am not going to run, I am going to walk fast. So perhaps his attempt at 'fast walking' was seen as trying to run away. IDK

IMO, this is an attempt to explain why Trayvon didn't make it home. Running, there would be no excuse - if he were walking fast, maybe, but still doubtful that he wouldn't make it home.

We will never know exactly what was said in the phone call. I do think the GF probably heard more - phones don't disconnect when the ear buds are pulled out and the phone is in your pocket. IMO, this might explain why she went into the hospital - imagine if she heard everything, how horrible. She may have been terrified of being asked about it, which would explain coming forward 3 weeks later.

 

[rotterdam]

I do not see how it is harassment. I see that something escalated beyond where it needed to be.
JUST ASKING…
GZ should have said I am the watchman around here?
that would give TM reason to run and return another time, IF HE wanted to do something bad.

OR
GZ ask what are you doing here, are you lost? Can I help?
TM already thought he was following he would not have said My dad lives here - I am a guest - if you fear the guy you dont give him information.

You answered your own question. If GZ would have done either of those scenarios, the fatal confrontation would not have occurred IMO. Pity, GZ did not think like you.
GZ had a choice but he remained silent and weird/scary in Tray's perception.