17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[suzihawk]

Great questions!

This is what I SUSPECT happened (in my opinion, my opinion only)...

I believe TM was the person primarily screaming and begging during most of the recordings. I believe he likely had a gun in his chest and was begging for his life. Neither of them were actually fighting at that point (nor seriously fighting even prior to this). When the witnesses came out and they both saw them, TM stopped screaming thinking he was safe, and his feelings were probably reinforced when GZ started calling for these guys to call the police. The police were exactly who TM wanted to see at that point.

When the witnesses went back inside, GZ yelled for help and pulled the trigger.

As for how he ended up face down, one easy answer is that GZ had his hand on the kid's sweatshirt and he jerked him forward and off of him.

AGAIN.. MY OPINION ONLY ABOUT ONE POSSIBLE SCENARIO! I am not accusing anyone of anything, just speculating.

Hmm... that's interesting and something to think about.

 

[highflyer]

In my post. The quotes in my post were from your original post.

Your quote.....Originally Posted by vlpate

ETA: The quotes in the post you are referring to were not mine, they were Highflyers - perhaps they looked like I wrote them??

Wrong. I can put all the posts together if that will help you.

 

[ynotdivein]

When I listen to the tape it's as if Zimmerman is a narrator setting the scene.

...break-ins in neighborhood

...looks like he's up to no good

...or he's on drugs or something

...he looks black

...he was just staring

...he's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

To believe George orchestrated this, one would have to believe Trayvon was in on the act...IMO


This was true, there had been an average of one per month since August. He was letting him know why he was on alert to people walking around, looking at houses - Trayvon wasn't walking briskly in the rain to get home for the All Star game, or he'd have kept walking.


This line goes with, 'he just walking around, looking about, looking at houses'. Why would Trayvon be doing that in the rain, in the dark?


This tells me Trayvon may have been walking slowly, staggering maybe? JMO


Dispatcher asked him, "white, black or hispanic", to which Zimmerman replied....


Staring at him, George...coming toward him - he's running.


Here he was acknowledging Trayvon was a black male because he wasn't sure at first. Hoodie, rain, dark - understandable...IMO

In my post. The quotes in my post were from your original post.

Which posts were quoting GZ's call to the non-emergency line.

 

[suzihawk]

hey I pay a lot of taxes for my home ,I pay their salaries and support LE we all have LE plates.I also send in donations,so I have never had a problem calling 911 and they have never had a problem with me calling.IMO any stranger following you can be fatal.I wonder if a simple 911 call might have stop this from happening.

Maybe. What I know is that a 911 call resulted in a young man's death in this case.

RIP Tray.

 

[Chris_Texas]

I've seen a lot of comments about African Americans being less apt to call LE than Caucasians, but didn't see any links to back up these statements. So I did a quit Google and sure enough, found a poll to back up these claims.

Police and public confidence
Percent of public reporting a great deal of confidence in the police, 2001: 57%
Percent of Whites reporting a great deal of confidence in the police, 2001: 59%
Percent of African-Americans reporting a great deal of confidence in the police, 2001: 38%

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/prisonindex/policeconfidence.html

I am trying to be very careful with what I type, so apologies in advance if this is a bit cryptic...

All of us who are white would love to believe that "white privilege" and the oppressive black experience ended generations ago.

Consider, however, that any older black person you meet, no older than some of us posting here, grew up in a nation in which the police would arrest them for daring to sit in the white man's seat on the bus, or drink from the white man's water fountain, or sit in the white man's chair. And if that black got uppity, if he forgot his place, he was liable to be murdered and those police he is expected to call today didn't even consider it a crime.

Distant past? The governor of my state, Texas, a former 2012 candidate for President, owns a camp that until recently had a sign on the front drive of his hunting camp calling it "Camp N*****head."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...charged-name/2011/10/01/gIQAOhY5DL_story.html

It's better than it was, obviously, but we have a long way to go still. And in my opinion the first step is to admit we have a problem and the second is to challenge those who with to perpetrate this evil and refuse to tolerate it frm anyone.

In my opinion.

 

[mikeysmommom]

17 year old boys do not have the mindset of calling 911. Especially if they are people of color. There is a culture thing going on here that people just don't get.

It may well be a cultural thing but IMO until this mindset changes,by teaching this to the children it will never change and continue to put their children in danger JMO.

 

[MarthaM]

I just read the Reuters article called Before the World Heard the Cries.

This part, where Trayvon's father is relating what Investigator Serino gave as Zimmerman's version of events is more than a little confusing to me:

"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.

"At that point Zimmerman is able to unholster his weapon and fire a shot, striking Trayvon in the chest. Trayvon falls on his back and says, 'You got me.'"

I can't even picture that. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSL2E8F31ZX20120403

 

[claudicici]

i am trying to be very careful with what i type, so apologies in advance if this is a bit cryptic...

All of us who are white would love to believe that "white privilege" and the oppressive black experience ended generations ago.

Consider, however, that any older black person you meet, no older than some of us posting here, grew up in a nation in which the police would arrest them for daring to sit in the white man's seat on the bus, or drink from the white man's water fountain, or sit in the white man's chair. And if that black got uppity, if he forgot his place, he was liable to be murdered and those police he is expected to call today didn't even consider it a crime.

Distant past? The governor of my state, texas, a former 2012 candidate for president, owns a camp that until recently had a sign on the front drive of his hunting camp calling it "camp n*****head."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...charged-name/2011/10/01/giqaohy5dl_story.html

it's better than it was, obviously, but we have a long way to go still. and in my opinion the first step is to admit we have a problem and the second is to challenge those who with to perpetrate this evil and refuse to tolerate it frm anyone. in my opinion.

thank you !!!! Ita!

 

[suzihawk]

On the CNN tape link Curtis Sliva, Guardian Angels Founders said pointing to his head that GZ had all his furniture upstairs rearranged in the wrong rooms (referring to his actions). Giving volunteers a bad name. jmo

Gotta love Curtis Sliva! He doesn't mince his words. Tells it straight.

 

[Reader]

I just read the Reuters article called Before the World Heard the Cries.

This part, where Trayvon's father is relating what Investigator Serino gave as Zimmerman's version of events is more than a little confusing to me:


I can't even picture that. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSL2E8F31ZX20120403

It makes no sense to me, either. If Trayvon is on top of GZ and GZ shoots him, he would not fall back, he would stay on top of GZ, just 'dead' weight.
AND GZ would have blood all over him. IMO

So how did Trayvon get on his stomach with hands underneath?

 

[Reader]

It may well be a cultural thing but IMO until this mindset changes,by teaching this to the children it will never change and continue to put their children in danger JMO.

IMO, it's not the children that need to change...it's the adults that are perpetrating the inequality in society, including such LE departments as SPD.

 

[Concerned Papa]

YES! and that's why persons who indicate head trauma when EMS answers a call are evaluated by medical professionals in the field and at a clinical facility. The coup-contra-coup injury is based on the science of PHYSICS...soft object hits hard surface in one direction and continues in the opposite direction into the back hard surface.

Here's a great graphic (poster) to explain it: http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/generateexhibit.php?ID=1167

Yes, one has the right to sign a waiver refusing transport to a medical facility. An AMA (against medical advice) waiver should be included with the call/run notes of the EMS team.

Healthcare providers would prefer to give a "clean bill of health" to a patient rather than fill the ME's office with cases.


JMO

I agree.

http://mit.zenfs.com/102/2012/04/69081607-29132322.pdf

Based on what the Officer put in his report, and what we saw in the "UN altered" police station videos, sounds like that's exactly what happened.

 

[LinasK]

On the CNN tape link Curtis Sliva, Guardian Angels Founders said pointing to his head that GZ had all his furniture upstairs rearranged in the wrong rooms (referring to his actions). Giving volunteers a bad name. jmo

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: That phrasing cracked me up!

 

[songline]

GZ referred to Trayvon as an a**hole in the first seconds he every laid eyes on him.

Actually I have done that too :floorlaugh:
someone walked in for a job (interview appointment) and looked like they were
going to the beach. When they left I said something to someone I worked with.
"What was wrong with that < mod snip >, wants to go to the beach and made
a pit stop here"

We all size people up.

 

[suzihawk]

They just might have realized that the two callers were the follower and the person being followed.If that happened then GZ might have been told to stop following he is guest of dads girlfriend in condo # whateverJMO.In my police station both 911 and non emergency number is in the same call room.Who knows if it might have been enough to stop the shooting JMO.

IMO A teen being followed would of had a car first and as fast as possible.

The comment was sarcasm. I should have been more clear. The point is I believe GZ's call would have been given more weight than Tray's.

 

[LinasK]

Actually I have done that too :floorlaugh:
someone walked in for a job (interview appointment) and looked like they were
going to the beach. When they left I said something to someone I worked with.
"What was wrong with that < mod snip >, wants to go to the beach and made
a pit stop here"

We all size people up.

That may be, but George didn't stop with just calling him an Ahole, and sizing him up! He told the 911 dispatcher about the f***ing c**ns always getting away, and didn't listen to the dispatcher telling him not to pursue.

 

[Reader]

Actually I have done that too :floorlaugh:
someone walked in for a job (interview appointment) and looked like they were
going to the beach. When they left I said something to someone I worked with.
"What was wrong with that < mod snip >, wants to go to the beach and made
a pit stop here"

We all size people up.

True, but we don't all follow them around at night for no reason with a gun.

 

[Donjeta]

Actually I have done that too :floorlaugh:
someone walked in for a job (interview appointment) and looked like they were
going to the beach. When they left I said something to someone I worked with.
"What was wrong with that < mod snip >, wants to go to the beach and made
a pit stop here"

We all size people up.

You let him leave alive though.

 

[Chris_Texas]

It may well be a cultural thing but IMO until this mindset changes,by teaching this to the children it will never change and continue to put their children in danger JMO.

I believe that the point is that it is not simply a cultural thing, but rather a reflection of reality. This case is prime example of just that. In my opinion.

With that said, it really doesn't matter why TM didn't call 911.

 

[claudicici]

I also thought IF it was GZ screaming for help it just may have been done for added drama....