17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[LambChop]

IDK, that's the problem with trying to match these things up when we don't even have the full context of the TM phone conversation. Did the GF notice him running? Was he out of breath when he was talking to her (that he had been running)? Did he really sound scared or was trying to act tough?

Two people did not know what GZ was telling LE, TM and his GF. She is telling him to run because she can hear him an apparently he is not running. We can clearly hear GZ running on the tape. TM said he would walk fast. So did GZ tell LE TM was running because he could not keep up with TM and had to start to run to do so and that why he said, he's running. GZ did not want to lose sight of TM, but I believe it was GZ that was running because he thought TM was getting away. jmo

 

[LambChop]

That does not make sense. The whole fight aspect makes no sense. This is what bothers me the most. I think GZ is lying about it.

It depends on which version you want to believe. There is a multiple choice listing. jmo

 

[Velouria]

It depends on which version you want to believe. There is a multiple choice listing. jmo

And in some ways, a Rorschach test.

 

[grandmaj]

Smith later wrote: "Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject, and he was still armed. ... Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semiauto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground.

http://www.freep.com/article/C4/201...led-with-conflicting-reports?odyssey=nav|head

If Trayvon was on top of Mr. Zimmerman how did he get the gun out of the holster that was on the inside of his waistband?

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/trayvon_martin/040412-george-zimmerman-decision-coming-soon

A decision could come in the next few days on George Zimmerman's fate. The state prosecutor is close to finishing up with her investigation.

 

[belle3]

It is my opinion that gz had the gun out as he was looking for tm. When he caught up with him and tm saw the gun the ensuing altercation happened. Something struck me as odd when gz father seemed to go out of his way to talk about tm going for his cellphone then after tm supposedly says gz you are gonna die, then he pulls out gun and shoots? CYa, imo. It is a crime to pull out your weapon unless it your intent to use it. If it can be proven that at any time gz pulled out his gun, before the altercation, that is, imo, a felony. And since, he was breaking the law at that point, his self defense stand would not be applicable. That is my understanding and my interpretation of what could be going on. all imo!!!

 

[rotterdam]

GZ had a gun and weighs, I believe, twice as much as Trayvon at least. Maybe even three times as much. Trayvon was unarmed. Who exactly was going to have great bodily harm done to them here? How could GZ be afraid of great bodily harm when he was the only one armed and weighs a lot more than the boy he is chasing? He initiated this. Even if Trayvon mouthed back, GZ still weighs more and has a GUN. Claiming self defense is ludicrous here. There is no way that GZ was in fear of great bodily harm. I just don't see it.

The only person afraid of great bodily harm was Trayvon, which is why he fought back to protect himself!

And do not forget GZ's claim that it was him who yelled for help but nobody came. How long after the help scream did the shot rang out. About 1 second?

 

[Elley Mae]

Smith later wrote: "Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject, and he was still armed. ... Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semiauto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground.

http://www.freep.com/article/C4/201...led-with-conflicting-reports?odyssey=nav|head

If Trayvon was on top of Mr. Zimmerman how did he get the gun out of the holster that was on the inside of his waistband?

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#1phfmgcu4

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

 

[LambChop]

If TM attacked GZ from the back why wouldn't he have flipped him over his back. He was a bouncer and had to have had some training in self defense. In my way younger days I'd been flipped a couple of times for sneaking up on hubby from behind but with a soft landing. Even with a soft landing, it knocks the wind out of you and gives the "flipper" the advantage.

However, if GZ were to grab and try to keep TM from leaving until LE arrived he could have very well fallen backwards with TM on top. It's possible. jmo

 

[Gin]

I still can't get past GZ's story about TM jumping him from behind. For the life of me, I can't figure out how someone that jumps you from behind manages to punch you in the face breaking your nose. :waitasec:




JMHO

Whether the story is told by GZ's attorneys or other surrogates, many aspects of his actions that night don't add up. This is why it's so important he's arrested and brought to trial.

 

[Concerned Papa]

No. As far as I know, you've got everything right up til the last statement. I think time clocks are not accurate here. What the GF has clearly said is that the moment a physical altercation began, the phone went dead. So no, he wasn't on the phone during the scuffle. He was on the phone up until the moment the scuffle began. She heard the verbal exchange, initiated by Trayvon, and then didn't hear anything after what appeared to sound like a shove.

You could be right, IDK. I haven't paid a lot of attention to her statements. What caught my eye was an article early this morning where ABC had the phone logs for this final call that was made at 7:12 pm and ended at 7:16 pm plus possibly some seconds between 7:16 and 7:17.

I'm not sure when this alleged beating took place or how long it lasted, but seems to me GZ's trying to say he was getting beat up while TM was talking on the phone with his girlfriend.

The one thing we can be certain of is that at 7:16:41 pm, it was all over.

 

[belle3]

http://nation.foxnews.com/george-zimmerman/2012/04/05/zimmermans-father-speaks-out-hannity
Zimmerman's Father Speaks Out on 'Hannity'

 

[LambChop]

Smith later wrote: "Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject, and he was still armed. ... Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semiauto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground.

http://www.freep.com/article/C4/201...led-with-conflicting-reports?odyssey=nav|head

If Trayvon was on top of Mr. Zimmerman how did he get the gun out of the holster that was on the inside of his waistband?

From the family description of TM and the fact that we know from the conversation with the gf, TM wanted to get away from this man that he did not know. It's possible TM was still trying to get away while they were struggling and may have tried to stand up giving GZ free access to his gun. I think that is why we hear the pleading cries on the 911 tape. GZ had his gun out already and was getting ready to shoot him and TM knew what was coming because GZ was holding onto him. That would also explain why TM landed face down. If he had gotten part way up and was pulling GZ up with him, GZ still would be shooting him at close range. TM grabs his chest, turns and then falls face first onto the ground.

I do hope TM's family hire an expert to reconstruct the crime because it can be done. jmo

 

[Adrienne37]

http://nation.foxnews.com/george-zimmerman/2012/04/05/zimmermans-father-speaks-out-hannity
Zimmerman's Father Speaks Out on 'Hannity'

Thanks Belle. I see Zimmerman Sr. is still cloaked in secrecy. I didn't even bother to watch the interview, I can't stand to hear any more of this family's mistruths. I made it through 2 paragraphs of the transcript and quit reading because yet again it's obvious to me that this family and the truth are strangers (wonder where that came from).

~jmo~

 

[tehcloser]

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#1phfmgcu4

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John
"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

So "John" sees this "fight" and GZ on the bottom yelling for help....and instead of "helping", he tells him to "STOP" and that he's calling 911.

Now, why would you tell the guy on the BOTTOM who was yelling for help to stop? That does not make sense.

 

[suzihawk]

Yes. The lead investigator believed this was a case where charges should be filed.

I think that happens a lot - LE goes to the prosecutor, and the prosecutor refuses to press charges because they can't win in court with the evidence so far.

It's common, and I don't think there's anything shady or underhanded about it. Cops believe a crime was committed, the prosecutor believes there's not enough evidence.

Except, in this particular case it was the other way around. The prosecutor went to LE - on a rainy Sunday evening. Very unusal and not SOP, IMO. I think there's something very shady and underhanded about it.

MOO

 

[gator]

It is my opinion that gz had the gun out as he was looking for tm. When he caught up with him and tm saw the gun the ensuing altercation happened. Something struck me as odd when gz father seemed to go out of his way to talk about tm going for his cellphone then after tm supposedly says gz you are gonna die, then he pulls out gun and shoots? CYa, imo. It is a crime to pull out your weapon unless it your intent to use it. If it can be proven that at any time gz pulled out his gun, before the altercation, that is, imo, a felony. And since, he was breaking the law at that point, his self defense stand would not be applicable. That is my understanding and my interpretation of what could be going on. all imo!!!

I think this is a really good point. To me, the screams on the 911 tapes sound like someone who is absolutely terrified. Like someone who is looking down the barrel of a gun for 41 seconds, not just in a "scuffle."

JMO.

 

[rbrnmw2]

IMO going off of the known timeline TM simply didn't have enough time to jump GZ and beat him that is JMO


Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express

 

[Velouria]

http://nation.foxnews.com/george-zimmerman/2012/04/05/zimmermans-father-speaks-out-hannity
Zimmerman's Father Speaks Out on 'Hannity'

From the link:

ZIMMERMAN: I just believe it's very sad that so many people are not telling the truth on purpose for their own agenda.

Finally, something Robert Zimmerman and I can agree on! :great:

 

[cityslick]

I think this is a really good point. To me, the screams on the 911 tapes sound like someone who is absolutely terrified. Like someone who is looking down the barrel of a gun for 41 seconds, not just in a "scuffle."

JMO.

I still think he would of said something to the GF about the gun if he saw it. He was talking up until there was a push (who pushes someone who has a gun? Who has a gun out but yet pushes, did he push with one hand while holding the gun in another?)