17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[Wise Old Owl]

This was before TM was Id'ed?

No.

We've all read how it was the next morning when TM's dad "ID'd" him.



JMHO

 

[LambChop]

He probably knew that he could not pass the necessary tests to be a PO. He has been described as a Jekkyl and Hyde type personality. His past would back to haunt him and he knew it so he decided not to even go there. Instead he lived vicariously as a cop by being the neighborhood watchman... an overzealous, boderline paranoid, partially racist character.. this is exactly what the police force does not need.

Plus whatever we can see now, LE HR had access to. He couldn't even hide his bouncer job because he would have had to list it as a job. You have to be 100% honest when you apply for this type of job, so if you lie and leave something out, you don't have a chance. jmo

 

[frenchvixen]

Forensics will be a big help.
Good light, bad light, eyewitness accounts are often surprisingly inaccurate.

All I can say about these eyewitness discrepancies is thank God for the 911 recordings. If it wasn't for that it would be a case of he say/she say. But the 911 calls puts things in perspective. GZ says he was screaming and so does eyewitnesses but the 911 calls do not show this. GZ says that TM attacked him but the 911 calls show that. After the puzzle is put together in a timeline using the 911 calls we will see that TM most likely lost his nerve and felt the need to defend himself from a stalker and used the SYG laws to do so and GZ overpowered him and shot him. This is what I believed happened.

 

[Concerned Papa]

The Grand Jury is set to convene next Tuesday, 4/10. It wouldn't surprise me too much if GZ gets arrested and charged before then.

If this girlfriend testifies to hearing TM say "why are you following me?" during a phone call that apparently can be documented as ending within seconds of TM being shot....

It the Grand Jury hears the 911 screams and the gunshot that killed TM....

If they hear a nationally recognized audio expert state with reasonable scientific certainty that the screams are NOT George Zimmerman....

George should go ahead and get his toothbrush packed along with some clean underwear because he's going somewhere.

 

[chefmom]

Zimmerman's 911 call: Audio enhanced again - YouTube

I hope that he is saying "Cold" and not the other word. It would certainly take a tad of the sting away. I still believe he should have NOT followed TM that night, and then none of this would have happened. JMO

 

[mercuriod]

This was before TM was Id'ed?

Yes! That is why I believe the "initial" report has not been made public, what was made public was altered! jmo, imo and all that jazz

 

[gxm]

We know he filled out an application of some kind where he stated he wanted to be and planned to be a law enforcement officer. So why wasn't he? What kept him from becoming a police officer?

I think that is an excellent question which, unfortunately, has yet to be answered. I've wondered the same thing myself. Is this information that can be released to the public? If so, why hasn't it been released yet?

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

This was before TM was Id'ed?

Yes. Military time.

 

[vlpate]

Where are you getting these times and information?

Following quote inserted by me for clarity:

Originally Posted by vlpate
I find two things very odd about the girlfriend's story.
7:11:59 - Subject running toward back of complex
7:12 - Trayvon's girlfriend calls Trayvon at almost the exact moment he takes off running. (GZ had no way of knowing this)

Trayvon tells her a strange man is staring at him, although he's already run away from GZ. Girlfriend tells him to run, he says he's not going to run, he's going to walk fast.

7:16 - Phone call between TM and GF ends suddenly when Trayvon's ear plugs fall out. No one is going to convince me the call ended at that moment. His phone was in his pocket - he'd have had to turn it off for it to disconnect. I'm just not buying it.

Information:
Link here
"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape."
<snip>
"Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell."
Times:
From the police call log, attached
Trayvon Phone record, attached

 

[csziggy]

I have been thinking about that and I wonder if those clicking noises are GZ playing with the safety on his gun. By playing I mean flipping it back and forth as he is pursuing TM. Kind of like some people do a ball point pen when they are nervous click the top rhythmically as a "comfort" thing. I think it gave GZ much comfort and courage to carry that gun and think he probably played with the safety all the time as a way of reassuring himself that he was in control. JMO, IMO AND ALL THAT JAZZ

Each time, the clicking is a series of three clicks - wouldn't a safety be a click on and a click off? Of course, if GZ were playing with the safety and clicking it off, on off; on, off, on; off, on, off; etc. he could have left it the safety off while thinking it was on and that could have been the cause of the shooting. GZ pulls his gun, thinking the safety is on, then because it is off he shoots TM when he doesn't mean to.

GZ would still be responsible for TM's death because he would have violated any number of gun safety rules.

Frankly, while I consider GZ fully responsible for TM's death no matter how the final moments came down, I don't think GZ went hunting for TM with the intention of killing him. I see GZ as sloppy, careless, and irrepsonsible, wanting to be the enforcer in that neighborhood and as FT said, fed up with what GZ sees as a crime wave. I think GZ should never have been allowed to own a gun because of his past indications of poor impulse control. He should not have been a neighborhood watch volunteer since he had already shown a propensity for taking the law into his own hands.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[LambChop]

That does not match the timing on the police log in the "initial police report" posted on the City of Sanford web site.

The "he's running" comment is roughly two minutes into GZ's call, but the operator at SPD at 19:11:59 entered into the log, "subj now running towards back entrance of complex".

I think some of the confusion may be that all the information the girlfriend is narrating has been attributed to the last call she had with TM. There were two earlier calls shown on the call log from ABC News - at 6:54 and at 7:04.

I think some of the events she has narrated happened during the call that began at 7:04 - TM passed GZ, saw him watching him, ducked under a porch, pulled up his hood, and ran. Maybe the call dropped while he was running, maybe when GZ (at about 7:11) saw TM's hand at his waistband and something in TM's hand, TM was disconnecting the call.

The screen captures I have of the call logs don't show the duration of the two earlier logs. From a CNN story about the girlfriend I have a section of the call log for the call that began at 7:12 that shows it was 4 minutes.

Then when the gf's call at 7:12 connects, TM tells her he ran, but he's not going to run anymore, just walk fast. I think he's talking to her, reassuring her, shooting the breeze for that four minutes until GZ comes on TM somewhere between the buildings and the call ends at 7:16

IMO, JMO, etc.

ETA - most of the media have been saying that GZ's call began at 7:10 - according to the SPD log of the call it connected at 19:09:34. That could be what is throwing their timeline off.

It's also interesting that GZ's father claims GZ became suspicious when he saw TM cutting through the houses. The only place to do that prior to the clubhouse would be the area between the homes off of Oregon Avenue which is where TM would have been walking down the pavement to the gate. Did TM cut through the side yard in between the homes as a shortcut rather than walk all the way down to the gate. There is clearly an opening there from the street side so someone wanting to get home fast because of the rain might take that shortcut. There's no walled in area and it appears pretty open except from some arbors along the backyard areas. If GZ was on his way to the store from his house he would have seen TM entering onto the street from between the two buildings as GZ would be driving down that street. So from what GZ's father is saying it appears GZ saw TM before TM arrived at the clubhouse. jmo

 

[vlpate]

For anyone interested, CNN is about to go over the newly enhanced, enhanced racial slur with different result.

 

[frenchvixen]

That does not match the timing on the police log in the "initial police report" posted on the City of Sanford web site.

The "he's running" comment is roughly two minutes into GZ's call, but the operator at SPD at 19:11:59 entered into the log, "subj now running towards back entrance of complex".

I think some of the confusion may be that all the information the girlfriend is narrating has been attributed to the last call she had with TM. There were two earlier calls shown on the call log from ABC News - at 6:54 and at 7:04.

I think some of the events she has narrated happened during the call that began at 7:04 - TM passed GZ, saw him watching him, ducked under a porch, pulled up his hood, and ran. Maybe the call dropped while he was running, maybe when GZ (at about 7:11) saw TM's hand at his waistband and something in TM's hand, TM was disconnecting the call.

The screen captures I have of the call logs don't show the duration of the two earlier logs. From a CNN story about the girlfriend I have a section of the call log for the call that began at 7:12 that shows it was 4 minutes.

Then when the gf's call at 7:12 connects, TM tells her he ran, but he's not going to run anymore, just walk fast. I think he's talking to her, reassuring her, shooting the breeze for that four minutes until GZ comes on TM somewhere between the buildings and the call ends at 7:16

IMO, JMO, etc.

ETA - most of the media have been saying that GZ's call began at 7:10 - according to the SPD log of the call it connected at 19:09:34. That could be what is throwing their timeline off.

If he got off the phone with gf @ 7:16p how can he be dead at 7:17p? Is the timeline correct? I believe the 911 recording have the gunshots going off at 7:17p.(I read this somewhere else so I don't know how factual that is).

 

[gxm]

For the life of me I do not hear a racial slur.

Me neither. And I didn't hear it in the first tape either. The "o" sound ending with the hard consonant IMO has always sounded like either "coke" or "cold" to my ear. I absolutely do not hear anything rhyming with the word "spoons."

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

It's also interesting that GZ's father claims GZ became suspicious when he saw TM cutting through the houses. The only place to do that prior to the clubhouse would be the area between the homes off of Oregon Avenue which is where TM would have been walking down the pavement to the gate. Did TM cut through the side yard in between the homes as a shortcut rather than walk all the way down to the gate. There is clearly an opening there from the street side so someone wanting to get home fast because of the rain might take that shortcut. There's no walled in area and it appears pretty open except from some arbors along the backyard areas. If GZ was on his way to the store from his house he would have seen TM entering onto the street from between the two buildings as GZ would be driving down that street. So from what GZ's father is saying it appears GZ saw TM before TM arrived at the clubhouse. jmo

Way back at the beginning of the case there was an article where someone said that is what Trayvon did and it was coming from Trayvon's side of the case but I am not sure where that article is. I always thought that extra block would make a little difference in the case of timing everything.

 

[impatientredhead]

I think GZ will have a top notch defense team. His father was a judge and the gun rights lobbying groups will be watching this one closely (money). Convicted or not they are going to have to change the verbage of that extremely vague statute. JMO

 

[Concerned Papa]

If he got off the phone with gf @ 7:16p how can he be dead at 7:17p? Is the timeline correct? I believe the 911 recording have the gunshots going off at 7:17p.(I read this somewhere else so I don't know how factual that is).

The time of the gunshot as nearly as I can tell was at 7:16:41. If you listen to the 911 call with the screams, the gunshot is heard at the :41 mark. The call began at 7:16 pm.

Either way, she was on the phone to within seconds of the shot that killed him.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

The garbled word that raised controversy was "punks," not "coons," said Tom Owen, chairman emeritus of the American Board of Recorded Evidence.

Well Well Well

 

[Footwarrior]

They say eye witness testimony is not reliable. I think it has been proven. Now if a number of witnesses said the same thing, it would be more reliable, imo. Also, didn't this same witness say he heard arguing? That doesn't support other testimony or what we heard on the 911 call.

The general public assumes that eyewitness accounts are accurate unless the person is lying. Science tells us that even people who are being truthful often give wildly inaccurate descriptions of events. We construct our memories of events from what we saw, what we presume happened and what we learn later about the event. We often don't even notice things that don't fit what we expect. For an example of how easy a witness can miss what is really going on, see the classic Invisible Gorilla Experiment.

"It isn't so astonishing, the number of things that I can remember, as the number of things I can remember that aren't so." - Mark Twain

 

[csziggy]

Interesting one of the groups that they will hear from are tourism officials.

I've talked with several people online who have cancelled vacations in Florida as a protest about the TM case. Some of them have written the Governor telling him WHY they will not be visiting Florida as long as the Stand Your Ground law is still in effect.

Florida has always been very sensitive to issues that will affect tourism since it is such a large part of the state's economy. They can't afford to have tourists too afraid to visit.

Years ago, after the German tourists were killed at a rest stop, Florida added security at the interstate rest stops that continues to this day - the stops where there is no security are locked at night.

The Florida tourism industry is very powerful and if they push to get rid of the Stand Your Ground law, it could be gone by the end of the next session of the legislature no matter what the NRA says.

IMO, JMO, etc.