17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #23

[LolaMoon08]

There is a link with a quote in the last thread that is now closed. My thoughts are that it wouldn't be to hard to convince a grieving mother that her son's killing was intentional, particularly in the climate swirling around this case. All it took to convince 100's of thousands of complete strangers was a bag of skittles an unintelligible muttering on a 911 tape and some media spin, imo. She knows what the charge is, and I'm sure someone took at least a little time to explain to her that it means intentional. If she is quoted in the media as saying it was an accident, I'm sure her advisors and Corey are aware of that sentiment and would have at least shared enough information with her to try and disabuse her of that notion.

Imo, Trayvon's mother is one of the very few people who have been consistently honest and full of grace in this matter. If she thinks it was an accident, I believe her.

Also, I wonder how Corey is going to deal with the child/adult matter. It might be difficult for the prosecutor to argue with any integrity that Trayvon was a child but a 12 yo is an adult when the only determinitive factor is that one committed a crime while the other did not. If it comes up it probably is subject to a sustainable relevance objection, but as a matter of intellectual and moral honesty, I'd say Ms. Corey would be facing quite the personal quandary if the prosecution intends to get any mileage whatsoever from Trayvon's status as a juvenile. jmoo

I believe that Mrs. Fulton's words are being taken too literal. I believe she fully understands that George didn't go out that night with the thought that he was going to kill someone.

Just because GZ didn't go out that night with murder on his mind, does not make what he did an accident. I think the proof of intention comes from George Zimmerman intentionally getting out of his car with the mind frame of "these a**holes always get away." I think this is where the point of intention comes into play. He intended to follow, confront, and IMO, detain Trayvon. The minute George Zimmerman decided to take the law into his own hands was the moment when this went from a simple mistake of judgment to an intention of not letting Trayvon get away.

MOO

 

[maedlamsmom]

Just a thought, but if Trayvon punched him in the face, hard enough to break his nose, wouldn't Trayvon have bruising and/or cuts on his knuckles? I have absolutely no idea about pre/post-mortem bruising, but it seems likely considering the force required to break a nose...

Sorry if this has been brought up before.

 

[raeann]

I've never heard where Trayvon's mother thinks that it was an accident?

Anywho, Trayvon's mother does not have all the evidence the SA has. I am sure she will testify truthfully after she has all the facts.

MOO

That has been clarified in a new statement issued by Trayvon's mother. She was referring to the fact that the encounter itself was an "accident" of circumstances that GZ and Trayvon were out at the same time. NOT that the actions of GZ were accidental. CNN just read the statement on air.

jmo

 

[LolaMoon08]

Just a thought, but if Trayvon punched him in the face, hard enough to break his nose, wouldn't Trayvon have bruising and/or cuts on his knuckles? I have absolutely no idea about pre/post-mortem bruising, but it seems likely considering the force required to break a nose...

Sorry if this has been brought up before.

I think the autopsy report will hold a lot of evidence as to why they went for 2nd degree murder and not manslaughter.

MOO

 

[HiHater]

If these people, in their torment, are able to find comfort in embracing the thought that an accident brought this unspeakable grief to their door, then who are we to say otherwise?

May the Lord God Almighty grant them peace through this judicial process.

Wow, the mom lost lots of weight. I can't imagine her pain at all!

 

[waltzingmatilda]

TruTV just read a statement from Ms Fulton clarifying her comment about the accident. She feels it was an accident that Trayvon and GZ ever crossed paths.

There was more to her statement but I didn't get it all.

wm

 

[Karmady]

The murder 2 charge is political? Angela Corey could have satisfied just about everyone with a manslaughter charge. Even Zimmerman's supporters saw that as a reality, and it's what most legal analysts saw coming.

The fact that she charged up, IMO, means that she's got d*mn good evidence. I don't think anybody was calling for Zimmerman to be facing life in prison, just for accountability. A jury trial.

Yesterday, I found myself wondering why the family and its advisors continued to call for non-violence when I was convinced, based on the barricade placement, that they were about to arrest GZ. Seriously, I was truly puzzled. At the press conference they gave though, and in the media aftermath, I understood that there was concern that even murder 2 would not be enough to quell anticipated violence. I have no agenda here, whatsoever. I'm concerned about the racial angle of the case and what the media has done with that, but otherwise I'm not invested in the outcome of the trial or Corey's motivations. I'm interested in them, but not emotionally, personally, invested. It is now my dispassionate belief that there is likely a political component to this from Corey's perspective. Fwiw, I did not feel that way yesterday. I do appreciate your thoughts, as well

In any case, I personally don't think it's necessary for the State to charge beyond that which the victims' own family desires. Idk, maybe Trayvon's dad feels differently than his mom, or maybe she is in denial. We shall see. Off to work. Good day all!

 

[nursebeeme]

But don’t forget that 2nd degree is one of the hardest to prove.
And that it may not go before a jury, that is yet to be determined, can be handled by a judge.
REASON: it may not be realistic to even find an untainted jury.

She knows exactly what she is doing....
He can even be found guilty on a lesser charge.
But I doubt that he will get a guilty for 2nd degree murder.

bbm: I have never heard that

I would also think that it would be more difficult to prove 1st degree re: motive and premeditation:moo::moo::moo:

 

[gxm]

Just catching up. I am stunned that Trayvon's mother believes his death was an accident, yet Corey has charged murder 2 and half the planet it seems, is beyond convinced that it was an intentional hate crime, possibly even a pre-meditated one. I haven't read the articles yet, so I don't know whether she has stated her opinion of the charge. If she understands it fully, she cannot agree with it. Depraved mind/heart murder is not an accident by a looonnnng shot. I wonder if she will testify that way if and when there is a sentencing hearing. Very, very interesting, imo. I usually try to keep my cynicism at bay, but murder 2 under the circumstances sounds very political to me. jmoo

I have always believed it was a terrible accident and was heartened to hear TM's mother agree. I don't believe GZ set out to harm TM. IMO, this case is about gun laws, not race.

I, too, wonder if the reason the SP went with the 2nd Degree charge was because she was not going to add on a hate crime charge and wanted to quell any possible violence. And I really hope she has the evidence to back it up and didn't over charge because that could turn this trial into a fiasco. And I've had enough of fiasco murder trials for this decade!

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[HiHater]

But don’t forget that 2nd degree is one of the hardest to prove.
And that it may not go before a jury, that is yet to be determined, can be handled by a judge.
REASON: it may not be realistic to even find an untainted jury.

She knows exactly what she is doing....
He can even be found guilty on a lesser charge.
But I doubt that he will get a guilty for 2nd degree murder.

Geragos: ‘In some ways, a second-degree murder instruction given to a jury is easier for the prosecution’

I'll take his word for it, because I have no idea.

https://www.facebook.com/DrDrewHLN/posts/412571355421812

 

[annalia]

That has been clarified in a new statement issued by Trayvon's mother. She was referring to the fact that the encounter itself was an "accident" of circumstances that GZ and Trayvon were out at the same time. NOT that the actions of GZ were accidental. CNN just read the statement on air.

jmo

Thanks, I'm glad she confirmed and clarified what she meant, hopefully it puts it to rest.

These parents have been through so much turmoil, an emotional roller coaster. It should go without saying that once in a while they may say something in a less than perfect way.

JMHO

 

[Marshmallow]

Yesterday, I found myself wondering why the family and its advisors continued to call for non-violence when I was convinced, based on the barricade placement, that they were about to arrest GZ. Seriously, I was truly puzzled. At the press conference they gave though, and in the media aftermath, I understood that there was concern that even murder 2 would not be enough to quell anticipated violence. I have no agenda here, whatsoever. I'm concerned about the racial angle of the case and what the media has done with that, but otherwise I'm not invested in the outcome of the trial or Corey's motivations. I'm interested in them, but not emotionally, personally, invested. It is now my dispassionate belief that there is likely a political component to this from Corey's perspective. Fwiw, I did not feel that way yesterday. I do appreciate your thoughts, as well

In any case, I personally don't think it's necessary for the State to charge beyond that which the victims' own family desires. Idk, maybe Trayvon's dad feels differently than his mom, or maybe she is in denial. We shall see. Off to work. Good day all!

I think human kind, for the most part, did well yesterday.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Yesterday, I found myself wondering why the family and its advisors continued to call for non-violence when I was convinced, based on the barricade placement, that they were about to arrest GZ. Seriously, I was truly puzzled. At the press conference they gave though, and in the media aftermath, I understood that there was concern that even murder 2 would not be enough to quell anticipated violence. I have no agenda here, whatsoever. I'm concerned about the racial angle of the case and what the media has done with that, but otherwise I'm not invested in the outcome of the trial or Corey's motivations. I'm interested in them, but not emotionally, personally, invested. It is now my dispassionate belief that there is likely a political component to this from Corey's perspective. Fwiw, I did not feel that way yesterday. I do appreciate your thoughts, as well

In any case, I personally don't think it's necessary for the State to charge beyond that which the victims' own family desires. Idk, maybe Trayvon's dad feels differently than his mom, or maybe she is in denial. We shall see. Off to work. Good day all!

You could tell that during the press conference, they had no idea that all this news was breaking about the SA filing charges. The news conference was happening at the same exact time that all this news was being reported and the media kept trying to get answers for things they had no idea of. I believe that at the end of the conference, even Al Shapton stated they might be back after they see what all the hoopla was about.

When the SA had started talking yesterday, her first words were that she had just talked to Trayvon's parents and told them.

They didn't know during the press conference! They were trying to keep the peace in case charges were not coming.

MOO

 

[Adrienne37]

Mom of dead Fla. teen clarifies 'accident' remark

http://www.mynews3.com/content/news...s-accident-remark/BLSXZ-hEL0GTNk8puSssAw.cspx

 

[gxm]

I think the autopsy report will hold a lot of evidence as to why they went for 2nd degree murder and not manslaughter.

MOO

I hope so. I very much worry due diligence may not have been followed.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[Lovejac]

I have always believed it was a terrible accident and was heartened to hear TM's mother agree. I don't believe GZ set out to harm TM. IMO, this case is about gun laws, not race.

I, too, wonder if the reason the SP went with the 2nd Degree charge was because she was not going to add on a hate crime charge and wanted to quell any possible violence. And I really hope she has the evidence to back it up and didn't over charge because that could turn this trial into a fiasco. And I've had enough of fiasco murder trials for this decade!

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

http://www.mynews3.com/content/news...s-accident-remark/BLSXZ-hEL0GTNk8puSssAw.cspx

Mom of dead Fla. teen clarifies 'accident' remark

Some viewers interpreted her remark to mean she was referring to the shooting, but she says that isn't what she meant. She says the encounter between Martin and George Zimmerman was the accident.

 

[HiHater]

Statement from Sybrina Fulton clarifying earlier comments on this morning’s airing of the Today Show:

“Earlier today, I made a comment to the media that was later mischaracterized.
When I referenced the word ‘accident’ today with regard to Trayvon’s death, in NO way did I mean the shooting was an accident. We believe that George Zimmerman stalked my son and murdered him in cold blood. The ‘accident’ I was referring to was the fact that George Zimmerman and my son ever crossed paths. It was an accidental encounter. If George Zimmerman
hadn’t gotten out of his vehicle, this entire incident would have been avoided. My son was profiled, followed and murdered by George Zimmerman, and there was
nothing accidental about that.”

Benjamin L. Crump, Esq.

 

[w1df10wr]

Anyone found any online streaming links for the bond hearing?


ETA: HLN just said they will cover it live - I would still like a streaming link because they always cut to commercials

Wesh.com doesn't have anything on their page yet. Anyone else find a link?

 

[katydid23]

The murder 2 charge is political? Angela Corey could have satisfied just about everyone with a manslaughter charge. Even Zimmerman's supporters saw that as a reality, and it's what most legal analysts saw coming.

The fact that she charged up, IMO, means that she's got d*mn good evidence. I don't think anybody was calling for Zimmerman to be facing life in prison, just for accountability. A jury trial.

She is charging a 12 yr old kid who was abused all of his life, for MURDER as an adult---And I don't see that she has that much evidence against the CHILD to justify that decision.

I think she overcharges as a general rule. I don't think it means she has a smoking gun. If he shot him in the back we would have known that already. imo

 

[annalia]

Yesterday, I found myself wondering why the family and its advisors continued to call for non-violence when I was convinced, based on the barricade placement, that they were about to arrest GZ. Seriously, I was truly puzzled. At the press conference they gave though, and in the media aftermath, I understood that there was concern that even murder 2 would not be enough to quell anticipated violence. I have no agenda here, whatsoever. I'm concerned about the racial angle of the case and what the media has done with that, but otherwise I'm not invested in the outcome of the trial or Corey's motivations. I'm interested in them, but not emotionally, personally, invested. It is now my dispassionate belief that there is likely a political component to this from Corey's perspective. Fwiw, I did not feel that way yesterday. I do appreciate your thoughts, as well

In any case, I personally don't think it's necessary for the State to charge beyond that which the victims' own family desires. Idk, maybe Trayvon's dad feels differently than his mom, or maybe she is in denial. We shall see. Off to work. Good day all!

BBM

How did this become that the mother's wishes are for a lesser charge? :waitasec:

Even before seeing her clarify her comment, it was obvious that wasn't what she was saying.

JMHO