17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #24

[krkrjx]

I would actually not have a problem with a plea bargain in this case. What got under my skin to begin with was all the denial that GZ did anything wrong and all the attempts to smear Trayvon to bolster GZ's claims. Had JO and FT and most recently the two ousted lawyers not done all their posturing, and had GZ's family not made the claims that George was inches away from a life of diapers and spoon feedings, I would be far less disgusted.

I will never believe Trayvon had to die. I do not believe he did anything to warrant deadly force. I believe he was targeted and deliberately followed by GZ, a person who wanted--needed, for some reason--to be a hero.

However, if GZ were to man up and concede that he was wrong and that as a result of his actions a 17-year-old boy is dead, I would be willing to accept him getting a deal for a reduced charge. Manslaughter, perhaps? My reason is that if GZ were to plead guilty to wrongdoing, even short of actual Murder, and show an ounce of the remorse that some claim he has, I could accept the state reducing the charge. A contrite GZ admitting to exercising poor judgment in not heeding the dispatcher's words would be a sight for sore eyes, would it not? Well, IMO it would be a heck of a lot better than what he has done to date--blame the victim.

I only say this because I believe this is what Trayvon's parents may want and if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. I applaud the Martins. They are grieving parents who want justice, but they are not out for blood. And I am just fine with that.

 

[Lovejac]

I understand what you're saying, but truth is we're all quite different. And we definitely don't know what Trayvon thought was about to happen...

Trayvon could have thought the stranger was trying to get sex from him. It happens more than you probably know, especially for nice looking boys like Trayvon. Most straight guys are VERY angered by being approached for gay sex.

I don't know, I'm just saying that we don't have a clue what Trayvon thought GZ was after. Except we can assume he felt harassed or threatened. At some point, it's illegal to make a person feel either of these ways. This is why they have the SYG law; you don't have to run or act submissive.

A strange guy was following me once, while I walked alone in my neighborhood early one evening. He had originally walked past me, then U-turned and I could hear his sneakers lightly hitting the sidewalk, coming too quickly behind me.

I sensed he was either about to rape me or rob me.

Maybe I should have been polite and asked him sweetly if I could help him. Maybe I should have run like the dickens. But I'm cut from a different cloth from you... I went into an angry, aggressive mode...

I turn around like a mad woman and started rambling through my purse, as if I was about to pull out a gun. (I had a tube of lipstick and my apt. keys, that was about it!!)

I started moving fast toward the guy while fishing in my purse, hollering "I will KILL you. I will KILL YOUUUUU!!!"

The guy started running away from ME! :woohoo:

I actually started chasing after HIM for a few feet... and then I came to my senses and stopped chasing him. lol

Maybe he thought I shouldn't be in my own neighborhood. Maybe I should have respectfully waited to learn why this creep was following me, coming up behind me fast in the dark on a lonely street.

But all I could think to do is try to shock the guy with some "reverse psychology."

Trayvon may have felt he was in a dangerous situation similar to mine. If Trayvon suspected a racist bully or whatever was following him and about to attack him, that guy deserves the same treatment as a rapist or robber, IMO. It is equally illegal to pose all of these types of threats.

You are awesome! :clap: :clap:

Way to think on your feet!

 

[JeannaT]

I would actually not have a problem with a plea bargain in this case. What got under my skin to begin with was all the denial that GZ did anything wrong and all the attempts to smear Trayvon to bolster GZ's claims. Had JO and FT and most recently the two ousted lawyers not done all their posturing, and had GZ's family not made the claims that George was inches away from a life of diapers and spoon feedings, I would be far less disgusted.

I will never believe Trayvon had to die. I do not believe he did anything to warrant deadly force. I believe he was targeted and deliberately followed by GZ, a person who wanted--needed, for some reason--to be a hero.

However, if GZ were to man up and concede that he was wrong and that as a result of his actions a 17-year-old boy is dead, I would be willing to accept him getting a deal for a reduced charge. Manslaughter, perhaps? My reason is that if GZ were to plead guilty to wrongdoing, even short of actual Murder, and show an ounce of the remorse that some claim he has, I could accept the state reducing the charge. A contrite GZ admitting to exercising poor judgment in not heeding the dispatcher's words would be a sight for sore eyes, would it not? Well, IMO it would be a heck of a lot better than what he has done to date--blame the victim.

I only say this because I believe this is what Trayvon's parents may want and if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. I applaud the Martins. They are grieving parents who want justice, but they are not out for blood. And I am just fine with that.

I agree with everything you've said here. I think manslaughter is what they'll end up with in court, at any rate, if they actually go to court with GZ for anything.

Very wise observations.

 

[Adrienne37]

I would actually not have a problem with a plea bargain in this case. What got under my skin to begin with was all the denial that GZ did anything wrong and all the attempts to smear Trayvon to bolster GZ's claims. Had JO and FT and most recently the two ousted lawyers not done all their posturing, and had GZ's family not made the claims that George was inches away from a life of diapers and spoon feedings, I would be far less disgusted.

I will never believe Trayvon had to die. I do not believe he did anything to warrant deadly force. I believe he was targeted and deliberately followed by GZ, a person who wanted--needed, for some reason--to be a hero.

However, if GZ were to man up and concede that he was wrong and that as a result of his actions a 17-year-old boy is dead, I would be willing to accept him getting a deal for a reduced charge. Manslaughter, perhaps? My reason is that if GZ were to plead guilty to wrongdoing, even short of actual Murder, and show an ounce of the remorse that some claim he has, I could accept the state reducing the charge. A contrite GZ admitting to exercising poor judgment in not heeding the dispatcher's words would be a sight for sore eyes, would it not? Well, IMO it would be a heck of a lot better than what he has done to date--blame the victim.

I only say this because I believe this is what Trayvon's parents may want and if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. I applaud the Martins. They are grieving parents who want justice, but they are not out for blood. And I am just fine with that.

It's been said by many legal experts that Angela Corey doesn't offer very many plea bargains so it's likely she won't even consider one in this case.



~jmo~

 

[LinasK]

NOT so... IT IS TRUE.
I saw a video where a lawyer...maybe Mark Geragos (Not sure)
who said something similar to what I said above your post the one I am quoting.

Mark Geragos saying it doesn't make it true- he also said, "Scott Peterson is 100% Stone Cold Innocent"!!!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Here's how I think that it may play out.

There's an immunity hearing and the Judge bows to public/political pressure and does not grant immunity from prosecution.

Because of a weak case the prosecution then offers a deal of manslaughter in the 1st degree with a maximum of 20 years and a $10,000 fine. Public/political pressure prevents the prosecution from giving the defense a better deal. The defense declines.

The case continues to trial and is decided during jury selection. Whoever wins there, wins the case.

This is all just my opinion and can change as more evidence becomes available.

 

[Lovejac]

I am going to try to explain this the best way I know how.

Zimmerman will most certainly claim that he was within his rights citing the SYG law. In the legal world, that is considered an affirmative defense.

Think of it this way, insanity is also an affirmative defense. If a defendant claims they are innocent by reason of insanity, the burden shifts to the defendant to PROVE that they are insane.


Same thing with SYG. The defendant has to put on evidence (in this case it will have to be testimony) that supports GZ's claim that he felt his life was in imminent danger, so therefore he had a right to shoot.

Thank you for that crystal clear explanation!

 

[Steft50]

I would actually not have a problem with a plea bargain in this case. What got under my skin to begin with was all the denial that GZ did anything wrong and all the attempts to smear Trayvon to bolster GZ's claims. Had JO and FT and most recently the two ousted lawyers not done all their posturing, and had GZ's family not made the claims that George was inches away from a life of diapers and spoon feedings, I would be far less disgusted.

I will never believe Trayvon had to die. I do not believe he did anything to warrant deadly force. I believe he was targeted and deliberately followed by GZ, a person who wanted--needed, for some reason--to be a hero.

However, if GZ were to man up and concede that he was wrong and that as a result of his actions a 17-year-old boy is dead, I would be willing to accept him getting a deal for a reduced charge. Manslaughter, perhaps? My reason is that if GZ were to plead guilty to wrongdoing, even short of actual Murder, and show an ounce of the remorse that some claim he has, I could accept the state reducing the charge. A contrite GZ admitting to exercising poor judgment in not heeding the dispatcher's words would be a sight for sore eyes, would it not? Well, IMO it would be a heck of a lot better than what he has done to date--blame the victim.

I only say this because I believe this is what Trayvon's parents may want and if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. I applaud the Martins. They are grieving parents who want justice, but they are not out for blood. And I am just fine with that.

I would actually be ok with a plea bargain in this case as long as he would be held accountable. I believe, with what we currently know, that GZ started things with Trayvon by attempting to restrain him to wait for the police. A plea deal would mean he would have to publically be held accountable and responsible for at least some level of his actions (depending on what the plea is).

As always this is jmo.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I think she actually said he said "Man what is your problem?" and then GZ said I don't have a problem, and then wham the dogfight began.

When I picture this, if Trayvon were afraid of GZ - that is, believed GZ intended to knife him, kidnap him, rob him, etc., and knowing that Trayvon wasn't armed, I don't think he would have verbally engaged GZ, and asked him what his problem was. If he truly feared for his safety from GZ, I think he would have broken into a run and gotten away and not forced an encounter.

I think he knew what GZ was doing, and it pissed him off so he took the first swing. i believe Trayvon knew GZ suspected him, and was following him to watch him, and so Trayvon attacked him first verbally and then physically.

That's my humble opinion only. I can't see verbally engaging someone who you are truly afraid of, if you are unarmed, if you have the chance to get away which Trayvon certainly did.

IF I remember correctly, it was George Zimmerman's father who stated that Trayvon said "What's your f***ing problem? and George Zimmerman said "Nothing."

According to Trayvon's girlfriend, Trayvon asked "Why are you following me?" and George Zimmerman said "What are you doing here" and next thing she knew she heard what appeared to be pushes.

MOO

 

[SuziQ]

Wow, again...incredulous that folks are still continuing to essentially criticize TM for not being polite enough to suit some people's expected level of manners?

Yeah, next time I feel threatened by someone following me in the dark, I'm just gonna turn around and say, "Well, hello there! Can I offer you some tea?"

:what:

ITA. Being polite to someone with nefarious intentions will get you killed. I fear for the children of parents who teach that politeness to a stranger is acceptable. Those kids could end up dead.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I understand what you're saying, but truth is we're all quite different. And we definitely don't know what Trayvon thought was about to happen...

Trayvon could have thought the stranger was trying to get sex from him. It happens more than you probably know, especially for nice looking boys like Trayvon. Most straight guys are VERY angered by being approached for gay sex.

I don't know, I'm just saying that we don't have a clue what Trayvon thought GZ was after. Except we can assume he felt harassed or threatened. At some point, it's illegal to make a person feel either of these ways. This is why they have the SYG law; you don't have to run or act submissive.

A strange guy was following me once, while I walked alone in my neighborhood early one evening. He had originally walked past me, then U-turned and I could hear his sneakers lightly hitting the sidewalk, coming too quickly behind me.

I sensed he was either about to rape me or rob me.

Maybe I should have been polite and asked him sweetly if I could help him. Maybe I should have run like the dickens. But I'm cut from a different cloth from you... I went into an angry, aggressive mode...

I turn around like a mad woman and started rambling through my purse, as if I was about to pull out a gun. (I had a tube of lipstick and my apt. keys, that was about it!!)

I started moving fast toward the guy while fishing in my purse, hollering "I will KILL you. I will KILL YOUUUUU!!!"

The guy started running away from ME! :woohoo:

I actually started chasing after HIM for a few feet... and then I came to my senses and stopped chasing him. lol

Maybe he thought I shouldn't be in my own neighborhood. Maybe I should have respectfully waited to learn why this creep was following me, coming up behind me fast in the dark on a lonely street.

But all I could think to do is try to shock the guy with some "reverse psychology."

Trayvon may have felt he was in a dangerous situation similar to mine. If Trayvon suspected a racist bully or whatever was following him and about to attack him, that guy deserves the same treatment as a rapist or robber, IMO. It is equally illegal to pose all of these types of threats.

This post right here deserves more than a thanks! I think it deserves a standing ovation!! Cheers!

 

[songline]

You could be right, we will probably never know for sure what happened to start the physical attacks.

I do feel however that one of the most obvious explainations is very simple. is that GZ, by his own words felt these guys are always getting away and he was, imo, determined that it wasn't going to happen again so he attempted to restrain Trayvon and Trayvon fought back. That would lead me to believe GZ started it.

I'd like to understand why some feel this is not an option.

bbm, imo and all that.

It would be really hard for me to wrap my head around Zimmerman
carrying a gun and starting a fight. It just does not add up in my head.

 

[LolaMoon08]

It would be really hard for me to wrap my head around Zimmerman
carrying a gun and starting a fight. It just does not add up in my head.

You have a hard time wrapping your head around a man who has had previous issues with violence starting a fight because he was carrying a gun? Okay?

MOO

 

[SuziQ]

Sorry but I'm still trying to catch up and watch JVM at the same time.

I had a conversation with a friend earlier about GZ. She can't see how the prosecution will be able to prove that GZ confronted Tray AND that GZ had no other options but to kill Tray. Here were my thoughts.....

I have faith in this prosecutor and truly believe that she has the evidence to back up the claims made in the report. I think that they have heard bits and pieces of the confrontation between Tray and GZ. I think they have enhanced all of the background audio from the 911 calls. Does anyone remember the witness that said she put her phone up to the window while Tray and GZ were arguing? I think that call in particular will help the prosecution. What if Tray was heard trying to diffuse the situation? IMO that exchange would tell me who started the confrontation and who didn't want no part of it. If I heard that type of exchange and then heard screams for help there would be no question as to WHO was screaming and WHY. Does that make sense?

IMO those calls are going to play a major roll in this case not necessarily because of the witnesses themselves but the background audio during the calls.

JMO as always.

BBM. IMO, the probable cause statement spells out clearly, in GZ's own words and actions, that GZ himself was going to confront Trayvon. I've always said GZ's own words and actions on his 911 call will be his biggest problem. You flat out cannot initiate a situation then claim self defense.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Also, why did George get off the phone with LE if he was so worried about this suspicious kid? Wouldn't he want to be on the phone with LE when he caught back up with him?? Ohhhhh... that's right, he wasn't supposed to be following him any more?

MOO

 

[gitana1]

Or I guess a person that isn't all honest and squeeky clean could just pull the trigger, and then tell a little white lie about the "assault", or "physical battle."

SYG is a mess to me, but that's just my opinion. YMMV.

Yes, and your post got me thinking. They are going to have to clarify this law because otherwise, we really do have a situation where someone can claim fear and if there are no witnesses, kill girlfriends or boyfriends, husbands or wives, people they dislike, co-workers they hate, etc.
Surely Florida does not want that so I venture to guess this law will be interpreted in a manner less favorable to Zimmerman.

BBM
How do we know exactly what Trayvons girlfriend heard that night. I'm not saying that she's lying about what she heard but would she relate anything that may put Trayvon in a bad light?

If she had said Trayvon was aggressive, would you believe that? Are her statements only not credible because they do not conform with what you believe?

There is no reason for this kid to lie. She was apparently so traumatized by learning of the death of her boyfriend after witnessing his last moments on earth, that she had to be hospitalized. Doesn't sound like a conniving liar to me. There is zero evidence that she is a liar or otherwise not credible.

This is not consistant with TM's girlfriends statement. She said he was scared!

Apparently some question her veracity.

I wanted to add to the discussion as to who the aggressor would likely be. I have mentioned this repeatedly, but Zimmerman was the one who said, "These a$$holes always get away." And called "these a$$holes" "f&*king punks."

He's also the one who, after making those statements, followed the "a$$hole", even though the dispatcher indicated he did not need to do that.

He's also the one with an arrest and charges for a violent crime in his past.

He's also the one whose ex girlfriend alleged he was violent towards her.

He also the one who people complained about to LE and the HOA due to his "aggressiveness".

Finally, he's the one who repeatedly called police, over various, silly things and who wanted to be a cop, but for some reason, could not.

On the other hand, no one who has encountered Trayvon has stepped forward to say he was an aggressive person. In fact, the opposite is true. And his family seem like quiet, humble people to me.

Further, his girlfriend said he was scared and trying to get away, not confronting or angry.

Thus, taking everything as a whole, it is simply not logical to find the words of a man who wants to avoid prison, credible. Zimmerman is the logical aggressor, not Trayvon.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I'm interested in why this case has become such a lightening rod for hate.

Just last week there were two men from Tulsa who went out at night, armed, with the intent of shooting Black people and they did - 5 of them - totally innocent people they had no beef with whatsoever.

Why are they being ignored, and George Zimmerman probably wouldn't survive outside of the jail right now?

I guess I didn't ever really understand the seething hate people have for CA either, how she's different from any other mom who kills their darling child and then lies about it.

It's baffling why the public becomes riveted on certain cases, with a blood lust for vengeance, and other cases are pretty much ignored that seem much worse to me.

Because LE was looking for those men immediately after the shootings; therefore they were quickly found, arrested, and charged.

I expect the outcry would have been much greater had the two men confessed the shootings yet not have been immediately arrested pending an investigation.

JMO etc.

 

[Steft50]

It would be really hard for me to wrap my head around Zimmerman
carrying a gun and starting a fight. It just does not add up in my head.

Why?

All it would take would be a man, who by his own words was tired of these guys getting away, grabbing Trayvon by the arm or putting a hand on his shoulder to try and hold him till police arrived. Trayvon, who is grabbed by this guy he views as a perv attempts to get away from him. Why is this so difficult to visualize for some? To me, given GZ's own words and frustrations, this is the most likely.

Give me something that says this isn't possible or, as I said, given GZ's own words, probable, and I'll seriously consider it.

Oooppsss....IMO and all that.

 

[AngelWings444]

OT - Why do people on WS keep referring to Trayvon Martin as "Tray?" I don't believe his own family refers to him, in the media, using that name. I prefer to call him by his full name, Trayvon Martin, Trayvon, or abbreviate using TM. Maybe it's just me.. :waitasec:

 

[gitana1]

OT - Why do people on WS keep referring to Trayvon Martin as "Tray?" I don't believe his own family refers to him, in the media, using that name. I prefer to call him by his full name, Trayvon Martin, Trayvon, or abbreviate using TM. Maybe it's just me.. :waitasec:

I don't know. I don't do it here but sometimes people just find it quicker to abbreviate.