17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

[jjenny]

I was just wondering where everyone was getting the idea that John said he was outside and came back in. It turned out he never said anything like that.

He doesn't say he was outside but he says the guy on the bottom was yelling to him for help. How in the world would the guy on the bottom see John if John never was outside? If John was standing inside his home this whole time why does he think the guy on the bottom yelled to him for help?

 

[grandmaj]

I can't believe that we are even discussing the way a person speaks. Speech impediment, dialect, region, different cultures? We are the United States of America and in every region we speak differently. Being from Boston I have a very thick accent and I drop my s at times. I also have a special needs grandson who is brilliant. But he has language difficulties. His 4th grade classmates have more tolerance and acceptance than what I'm reading here. :sigh:

 

[jaded cat]

I know the legal definition of opposing counsel.

But let's not pretend that Crump is not the public legal voice, expressing loudly the opposing legal opinions of this case. Everything that happens, Crump and his team go on the airwaves and speak AS IF they are the opposing legal team. Is that not correct?

No, as the victims and their attorney, they have the right to get on TV and say any damn thing they please. The media doesn't have to cover it and you don't have to listen to it. Regardless of how you want to parse it, no, Crump is not the opposing counsel in this case. AC and MO'M are the opposing counsel. Only those 2 will sit at counsel tables if this case goes to trial.

 

[jjenny]

No, as the victims and their attorney, they have the right to get on TV and say any damn thing they please. The media doesn't have to cover it and you don't have to listen to it. Regardless of how you want to parse it, no, Crump is not the opposing counsel in this case. AC and MO'M are the opposing counsel. Only those 2 will sit at counsel tables if this case goes to trial.

Whether he is an opposing counsel or not, he is still a lawyer and thus covered by the same rules all the lawyers are covered by.

 

[beach]

Crump was sitting right there with them. Did the family tell OMara not to talk to them they have a lawyer?

O'Mara did the professionally correct thing by not contacting Crump's clients directly. Anytime an attorney knows someone is represented by counsel, the professional thing to do is speak to the attorney. In turn, their attorney approaches his own clients and advises them. That is one of the reasons he represents them.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

He doesn't say he was outside but he says the guy on the bottom was yelling to him for help. How in the world would the guy on the bottom see John if John never was outside? If John was standing inside his home this whole time why does he think the guy on the bottom yelled to him for help?

Good question, how could he see the guy's on bottom mouth moving in the dark?

 

[Karmady]

Many would disagree. I'm one of them.

Yes, that is abundantly clear. But there are a whole bunch of people out there who do agree and, in any case, O'Mara felt that he was doing what was in his client's best interests. His client is now out of jail on what amounts to $15k bail and has been permitted to leave the state, even though he is facing murder charges in one of the most high profile supposed hate crime cases in recent memory. Imo, that's fairly objective evidence that he's doing an "okay" job.

Anyone heard anything about those Federal hate crime charges, btw?

 

[JBean]

heehee waiting for everyone to catch up and know that we are not discussing speech differences.

A major component of this case is disrespect of differences.

 

[csziggy]

I understand your point, Katy, but Crump and O'Mara have no professional relationship that requires Crump to make a priority of returning O'Mara's calls. They are not, in fact, the same as "opposing counsel".

Crump may have thought O'Mara wanted his help. Maybe Crump wasn't in a hurry to offer assistance.

The other possibility is that Crump may not have gotten O'Mara's message in time to respond before the hearing. Crump's office is in Tallahassee, over 200 miles away from Sanford. The hearing started at 9 AM, maybe before Crump's office opened. If O'Mara called the office, they may not have been able to get hold of Crump who was staying in Orlando or Sanford before the end of the working day the day before. Then Crump may not have been able to contact O'Mara before the hearing.

Not everything needs to have a nefarious motive even in these heated cases.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[jjenny]

Good question, how could he see the guy's on bottom mouth moving in the dark?

Are there no lights in that complex?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

O'Mara did the professionally correct thing by not contacting Crump's clients directly. Anytime an attorney knows someone is represented by counsel, the professional thing to do is speak to the attorney. In turn, their attorney approaches his own clients and advises them. That is one of the reasons he represents them.

He could of professionally asked Crump before court while they were all in the same room if it was alright for George to offer his condolences since it was just a communication problem getting that permission.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Are there no lights in that complex?

Yes there are. It was not completely dark. Many witnesses saw many things. That would be impossible if it were pitch dark.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Here we go! Hope this helps! We are different! Love and respect it and we'll be better people for it!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9BNoNFKCBI"]USA for Africa - We are the World - YouTube[/ame]

 

[katydid23]

The other possibility is that Crump may not have gotten O'Mara's message in time to respond before the hearing. Crump's office is in Tallahassee, over 200 miles away from Sanford. The hearing started at 9 AM, maybe before Crump's office opened. If O'Mara called the office, they may not have been able to get hold of Crump who was staying in Orlando or Sanford before the end of the working day the day before. Then Crump may not have been able to contact O'Mara before the hearing.

Not everything needs to have a nefarious motive even in these heated cases.

IMO, JMO, etc.

I think the calls were made over a two day period before the day of the bond hearing. IIRC

 

[jaded cat]

I can't believe that we are even discussing the way a person speaks. Speech impediment, dialect, region, different cultures? We are the United States of America and in every region we speak differently. Being from Boston I have a very thick accent and I drop my s at times. I also have a special needs grandson who is brilliant. But he has language difficulties. His 4th grade classmates have more tolerance and acceptance than what I'm reading here. :sigh:

Yea, I wanna know how come you New England types put an "R" at the end of a perfectly good "A" sound? :floorlaugh:

 

[Nova]

The family would not have to tell him. He knows they're represented. He can't talk to them even if the family were to say it's okay. Period. He'd already called Crump, maybe more than once (I didn't watch the vid at the link) and been totally dissed. So whatever. He did what was in his client's best interest, for which he is paid $6.66 per minute, so he'd darn well better :floorlaugh:

BBM: Hold on a minute, we're getting carried away, I think. TM's parents do not need fifth amendment protection; they are not suspects in any criminal action.

O'Mara can't FORCE them speak to him, but they are allowed to speak to anyone they choose. Having a lawyer doesn't change that.

(IANAL and all that.)

ETA Beach posted the following above:

O'Mara did the professionally correct thing by not contacting Crump's clients directly. Anytime an attorney knows someone is represented by counsel, the professional thing to do is speak to the attorney. In turn, their attorney approaches his own clients and advises them. That is one of the reasons he represents them.

And I'm sure Beach is correct in terms of what is considered professional courtesy. But we shouldn't confuse this with suspects and their fifth amendment right to have all LE questions go through their attorneys.

 

[JBean]

Instructions on how to delete your own posts:
edit
delete

 

[jaded cat]

Whether he is an opposing counsel or not, he is still a lawyer and thus covered by the same rules all the lawyers are covered by.

What rules are you referring to?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Yes there are. It was not completely dark. Many witnesses saw many things. That would be impossible if it were pitch dark.

You listen to those 911 calls a lot of people say they don't know it was dark.

 

[Sherbie]

And now for your moment of Zen

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSFB2ytWJLQ"]Sleepy Baby Bunny - YouTube[/ame]