17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

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  • #2,521
TM didn't do any such thing.

Well, there WAS the TESTIMONY by the investigator (who would have HAD to see the ballistics report and autopsy report) that he had seen NOTHING to contradict GZ's version of the events. Now he is UNDER OATH, and a STATE INVESTIGATOR, and if the ballistics report or autopsy stated evidence that contradicted GZ's version of events, he would be bound to answer differently.

What I find interesting is that those reports HAVEN'T been released yet. They are a matter of public record. The ONLY reason I can see for NOT releasing them is that they DO back up GZ's version, and they are trying to prevent an accusation of a cover up.
 
  • #2,522
You do know that GZ was not longer a teenager at 21 to 28 years of age right?
Not that far removed, however. The frontal lobe isn't fully developed until around 25. A 21-year-old may not be that much different from a 17-year-old when it comes to decision-making.
 
  • #2,523
I have not read any unfounded accusations about TM.

If you're talking about comments made in regards to the jewelry found in his backpack, I don't think those comments are without basis. Why would a teenager be in possession of 12 pieces of women's jewelry, a watch, and a screwdriver that could be used as a burglary tool? :waitasec: You tell me...


I don't know why. But I do know that no verified information regarding TM being caught stealing things or in possession of stolen property has ever come forward.

Therefore, IMO, saying that he has a "history of stealing" or however it was worded is indeed making an unfounded accusation.
 
  • #2,524
You mean a screwdriver that can be used to loosen a screw? Obviously what he had on him wasn't enough to warrant an arrest. And where is the evidence that TM was violent?

There was no arrest because those specific items had not been reported stolen. Had they been reported stolen there would have been an arrest.
 
  • #2,525
There werer LOTS of posts since I was last on, so if anyone has anything I missed and want an answer to, please let me know.

Okay, I am seeing a lot of, "Well, they would do this..." and such in regards to how actions would or should have occured, and it got me to thinking about a couple of things.

First, on following or stopping someone, FIRST, and FOREMOST, there is NO LAW that prevents you from following someone. If you do it too much to the wrong person, they can get a restraining order or a protective order, but in the abscence of that, there is no law preventing it. Thus, GZ violated NO law by following TM.

On the confrontation, lets try a little visualization. GZ is sitting in his car, sees a person he doesn't know, walking with his hand in his pants and calls the police. The person (we now know as TM) approaches his vehicle, stares at him, then takes off running. Yes, we know this because GZ reported it to the dispatcher. Of course, he COULD have been lying...but WHY? Where is the gain in lying at this point? So he follows him, again, COMPLETELY within his rights.

On a side note, I saw it asked WHY the POLICE could have stopped him. Remember, it is a GATED community, so you do NOT have the same rights as you would walking down Main St.

So GZ follows TM and loses sight of him, or doesn't lose sight, whatever you want to believe. The verbal confrontation starts.

Now, I am a gun owner (I own several) and I have a CCL and DO carry. I have a tactical holster that fits up under my arm. So according to THEORIES, GZ reaches inside his jacket for what HE says was a phone, but the TM supports say TM thought was a gun.

Now, if I go for my gun (which I have done), it is a MAXIMUM of 1.5 seconds before I have it out, leveled and am setting the sight picture (lining up what I am going to shoot at). So IF GZ was going for his gun, and got hit BEFORE he could get it out, then OBVIOUSLY TM was advancing on him and was closer than 1.5 seconds worth of travel time. So about 6 feet. Now GZ is on edge. He is watching for the person he was following, what are the odds that he gets within 6 feet of him before GZ NOTICES? TM asks why are you following me. GZ is reaching into his jacket. TM assaults GZ (PLEASE don't try denying this, it HAPPENED, he has the marks). Now if GZ had been reaching for the GUN, as some of you have suggested, how does TM hit him? Assuming TM got ONE good shot into his face, he STILL have a GUN in his hand. TM is, IMO, slamming his head on the ground. Now if GZ went for the gun, and was HOLDING it, one of two things stop him from shooting earlier. One, it was knocked free, which we know it wasn't, two, he still has it in his hand, and TM gets shot SOONER. So the gun didn't come out until TM was on top of him and slamming his head into the ground.

Sorry, but as a SHOOTER, who CARRIES a gun, the sequence of events simply do not add up to ANYTHING other than TM assaulting GZ, and getting shot for it.

As for TM's actions and Facebook and Tweets, etc, they ARE evidence, as they ARE a picture of how this young man intended to portray himself to the world. His message, regardless of how screwed up is was, is one of being a 🤬🤬🤬🤬. That is a lifestyle choice that comes with ACTIONS< such as violently confronting someone you think is demeaning you. The drug paraphenialia is another thing, if there is evidence that TM was dealing drugs (which I believe there is), THAT could have colored TM's view of what GZ wanted. Perhaps TM thought GZ was a rival drug dealer out to harm him.

Make of it what you will, but the ONLY way you come up with GZ attacking TM is if you question most of the CURRENT evidence, and lay your entire bet on evidence that has not been released.
I see NOWHERE in the 911 call where GZ claims that TM approaches his vehicle, stares at him, then takes off running. There is no evidence of any serious head injury that would occur from having his head slammed on the ground. Most witnesses stated that GZ was on top of TM. And there is no evidence that TM was dealing drugs. <modsnip>
 
  • #2,526
That is the GREAT thing about this country, you don't NEED a reason to carry a gun, its your RIGHT.

THAT is the "great thing" about this country?

You're free to think so, but plenty of us do not share your opinion.
 
  • #2,527
I wondered about that too because I don't think it's legal to release school records to the media, or anyone else for that matter. There are so many Federal laws concerned with privacy these days, surely there is a law about making school records public. If the school released this information about Trayvon, I think the Martins have a case.

I certainly hope that the Martin's do follow up on this and file a case because if "certain" people think they are only out there to make money hell the HOA would mean nothing to them they could get MILLIONS from the state of Florida because of the leak of these records.
 
  • #2,528
There werer LOTS of posts since I was last on, so if anyone has anything I missed and want an answer to, please let me know.

Okay, I am seeing a lot of, "Well, they would do this..." and such in regards to how actions would or should have occured, and it got me to thinking about a couple of things.

First, on following or stopping someone, FIRST, and FOREMOST, there is NO LAW that prevents you from following someone. If you do it too much to the wrong person, they can get a restraining order or a protective order, but in the abscence of that, there is no law preventing it. Thus, GZ violated NO law by following TM. If someone is following you and you are in fear of your life they have the same rights you do, except more so because they were not following you, you were after them.

On the confrontation, lets try a little visualization. GZ is sitting in his car, sees a person he doesn't know, walking with his hand in his pants and calls the police. The person (we now know as TM) approaches his vehicle, stares at him, then takes off running. Yes, we know this because GZ reported it to the dispatcher. Of course, he COULD have been lying...but WHY? Where is the gain in lying at this point? So he follows him, again, COMPLETELY within his rights. No proof this ever happened. What to gain, an ego booster, IMO. People who want to be police officers go out of their way to "impress" their "fellow" officers.

On a side note, I saw it asked WHY the POLICE could have stopped him. Remember, it is a GATED community, so you do NOT have the same rights as you would walking down Main St. Where is it written that you do not have the right to walk down the street in a gated community if you are staying there. Your rights are the same. You have the right not to be harassed.

So GZ follows TM and loses sight of him, or doesn't lose sight, whatever you want to believe. The verbal confrontation starts.

Now, I am a gun owner (I own several) and I have a CCL and DO carry. I have a tactical holster that fits up under my arm. So according to THEORIES, GZ reaches inside his jacket for what HE says was a phone, but the TM supports say TM thought was a gun.

Now, if I go for my gun (which I have done), it is a MAXIMUM of 1.5 seconds before I have it out, leveled and am setting the sight picture (lining up what I am going to shoot at). So IF GZ was going for his gun, and got hit BEFORE he could get it out, then OBVIOUSLY TM was advancing on him and was closer than 1.5 seconds worth of travel time. So about 6 feet. Now GZ is on edge. He is watching for the person he was following, what are the odds that he gets within 6 feet of him before GZ NOTICES? TM asks why are you following me. GZ is reaching into his jacket. TM assaults GZ (PLEASE don't try denying this, it HAPPENED, he has the marks). Now if GZ had been reaching for the GUN, as some of you have suggested, how does TM hit him? Assuming TM got ONE good shot into his face, he STILL have a GUN in his hand. TM is, IMO, slamming his head on the ground. Now if GZ went for the gun, and was HOLDING it, one of two things stop him from shooting earlier. One, it was knocked free, which we know it wasn't, two, he still has it in his hand, and TM gets shot SOONER. So the gun didn't come out until TM was on top of him and slamming his head into the ground. No proof TM was the agressor. We know they were fighting we just don't know who started it. It could have started because GZ was trying to keep TM from leaving. If GZ were telling the truth about the encounter there would never be different versions.

Sorry, but as a SHOOTER, who CARRIES a gun, the sequence of events simply do not add up to ANYTHING other than TM assaulting GZ, and getting shot for it.

As for TM's actions and Facebook and Tweets, etc, they ARE evidence, as they ARE a picture of how this young man intended to portray himself to the world. His message, regardless of how screwed up is was, is one of being a 🤬🤬🤬🤬. That is a lifestyle choice that comes with ACTIONS< such as violently confronting someone you think is demeaning you. The drug paraphenialia is another thing, if there is evidence that TM was dealing drugs (which I believe there is), THAT could have colored TM's view of what GZ wanted. Perhaps TM thought GZ was a rival drug dealer out to harm him. There is no evidence TM was dealing drugs, ever. Perhaps TM thought GZ was going to steal his phone or his money. He was a kid and should have felt safe within the confinds of this gated community not turned into a victim by one of their very own residents.

Make of it what you will, but the ONLY way you come up with GZ attacking TM is if you question most of the CURRENT evidence, and lay your entire bet on evidence that has not been released.Current evidence would be what was presented as probable cause. So that would be the inconsistent stories GZ told. The fact that the body was only 70 yards from the condo where TM was staying which contradicts GZ version of him being attacked from behind at the cut through????

Responses in red. There are many out there that hate guns. Moms that want to see them off the streets, greater restrictions on those who can carry concealed weapons. I agree you should be able to carry a gun if you are a responsible citizen. GZ never should have had a gun. The anger management course should have kept him from qualifying, another slip through the cracks. Unless someone's life is in danger no one should have the right to track someone down like an animal. jmo
 
  • #2,529
BBM

In the dark, in the rain, when the NBA All Star game is about to start? Walking in the rain, not covering your face till you notice some one is watching you?

Yes. I've walked in all types of weather. In the winter I bundle up (sometimes with a hoodie) and walk in the dark. Sometimes I get up before dawn and walk. Occasionally it gets misty (that's when the hoodie comes in handy) and I've even been known to get caught in a shower or two. That happens in Florida.

Not much of a sports fan but I've been known to forego a favorite program or two to go for a walk. I've even walked to the store to get cigarettes (not much of a candy type) and a drink. :what:

BTW, please provide a link to Trayvon not covering his face until he noticed someone watching him. This is news to me.
 
  • #2,530
Well, there WAS the TESTIMONY by the investigator (who would have HAD to see the ballistics report and autopsy report) that he had seen NOTHING to contradict GZ's version of the events. Now he is UNDER OATH, and a STATE INVESTIGATOR, and if the ballistics report or autopsy stated evidence that contradicted GZ's version of events, he would be bound to answer differently.

What I find interesting is that those reports HAVEN'T been released yet. They are a matter of public record. The ONLY reason I can see for NOT releasing them is that they DO back up GZ's version, and they are trying to prevent an accusation of a cover up.

BBM

Gee, then you think Officer Serino was just making things up when he signed an affidavit saying Zimmerman was lying and should be arrested?
 
  • #2,531
I certainly hope that the Martin's do follow up on this and file a case because if "certain" people think they are only out there to make money hell the HOA would mean nothing to them they could get MILLIONS from the state of Florida because of the leak of these records.

It was reported that someone within the school released the records. I don't have a link because it was many, many threads ago. lol
 
  • #2,532
The girlfriend also said TM "lost" GZ.


She said TM said he thought he lost the guy that was following him, then later he said the guy was right behind him again.
 
  • #2,533

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  • #2,534
You mean a screwdriver that can be used to loosen a screw? Obviously what he had on him wasn't enough to warrant an arrest. And where is the evidence that TM was violent?

Why would a teenager be in possession of 12 pieces of women's jewelry, a watch, and a screwdriver that could be used as a burglary tool?

You tell me???
 
  • #2,535
THAT is the "great thing" about this country? You're
free to think so, but plenty of us do not share your opinion.

I don't think it's a 100% guarantee that you can carry a gun. There are some very specific guidelines and rules about toting a gun around town. You have to be licensed for one thing. jmo
 
  • #2,536
At what broken law do you draw the line? Marijuana may be no big deal to you, but it is against the law. Did George Zimmerman start making those bad decisions throughout his life at such a young age as Martin appears to have?

I guess your sentence stating pretty much everyone you know is an illegal drug user explains your position here. Of course you'd assume the person who performed a lawful act of self defense was in the wrong.


Actually GZ seems to have been making bad decision though out his ENTIRE life, just because no one has posted his juvenile records (rightly because juvenile records are by law sealed) or posted his juvenile school records does not mean they do not exist. Some people still have scruples and do not stoop to breaking the law and posting juvenile records.
 
  • #2,537
Why would a teenager be in possession of 12 pieces of women's jewelry, a watch, and a screwdriver that could be used as a burglary tool?

You tell me???

Did you ever look in a teen's bookbag?????? There aren't just fuzzy gummy bears in there, you know. jmo
 
  • #2,538
At what broken law do you draw the line? Marijuana may be no big deal to you, but it is against the law. Did George Zimmerman start making those bad decisions throughout his life at such a young age as Martin appears to have?

I guess your sentence stating pretty much everyone you know is an illegal drug user explains your position here. Of course you'd assume the person who performed a lawful act of self defense was in the wrong.

BBM - IMO Trayvon was the one standing HIS ground against an armed stalker 🤬🤬🤬🤬.

Using marijuana versus being a murderer. There is no comparison.

May justice prevail.
 
  • #2,539
:what: Yeah WE do.

If you CHOOSE to believe that there was no way that TM started the physical confrontation, that's your right. :banghead:
 
  • #2,540
IMO, you do not carry a gun and be forced to use it to save your life by shooting to wound.


I think what bothers me the most are the hollow point bullets. That's a clear aim to kill theology. jmo
 
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