2008.12.11 Lt. Tammy Uncer Interview "Jail worker who saw KC's reaction"

[LisaNY]

The way I heard and interpreted the events leading up to kc's reaction, based on the testimony given at the hearing was:
KC was being brought to the infirmary to be told that a childs remains were found on Suburban, near her home. On the way to be told, she heard the news being broadcast and her reaction was caught on tape. It was stated in that testimony that it was SOP to bring inmates to the infirmary to receive any kind of terrible news (such as death in the family) it was SOP that a tv is always on in that area, and it was SOP that a camera records the inmates while in that area.
I realize the "news" is reporting the event as KC was purposely taken there, and filmed as she was reacting to the news. That is not testimony, what was said at the motion hearing was testimony from LE, I tend to go with that. Also, I ask this ... if her reaction was falling to her knees praying, and saying things like, please do not let this be my beloved Caylee, this can't be Caylee, no don't let it be ... would JB still be crying about this video or would we all be watching this favorable reaction?????
I realize that protecting ALL human rights goes along with protecting the rights of the accused, but I do not see where there was an infringment on any rights, in this instance. The jail did not install tvs & camera's or play a pre-recorded tape of the breaking news. This is moo.

 

[RR0004]

Better for the State if word had already come in (before it hit the media) and they were moving her to the medical area as a precaution (without telling her why.) Then, she might have seen it on the tv while passing through the common area, which is filmed constantly anyway, and the tapes caught her reaction at that time.

Lt. Tammy Uncer would then have seen the reaction in the normal course of escorting KC from one area to another, and the tapes would have been running regardless, as they've already reported they do in the common areas.

That would be a more defensible position for the jail that could not be misconstrued as 'spying' for the State.

Ya know this scenario makes the most sense to me. The way media reported the events was awful...sounded downright cruel. Thanks...this could very well have happened. (I recently heard that she was walking through a common area which had the tv on.)

 

[miabellamoure]

The way I heard and interpreted the events leading up to kc's reaction, based on the testimony given at the hearing was:
KC was being brought to the infirmary to be told that a childs remains were found on Suburban, near her home. On the way to be told, she heard the news being broadcast and her reaction was caught on tape. It was stated in that testimony that it was SOP to bring inmates to the infirmary to receive any kind of terrible news (such as death in the family) it was SOP that a tv is always on in that area, and it was SOP that a camera records the inmates while in that area.
I realize the "news" is reporting the event as KC was purposely taken there, and filmed as she was reacting to the news. That is not testimony, what was said at the motion hearing was testimony from LE, I tend to go with that. Also, I ask this ... if her reaction was falling to her knees praying, and saying things like, please do not let this be my beloved Caylee, this can't be Caylee, no don't let it be ... would JB still be crying about this video or would we all be watching this favorable reaction?????
I realize that protecting ALL human rights goes along with protecting the rights of the accused, but I do not see where there was an infringment on any rights, in this instance. The jail did not install tvs & camera's or play a pre-recorded tape of the breaking news. This is moo.

**Red bolded by me**

So, how about that scenario?

Well, I'm gonna bet my eye teeth that JB sure wouldn't object to that video being entered in as evidence, now would he?

Of course not.

 

[whiteangora]

Ya know this scenario makes the most sense to me. The way media reported the events was awful...sounded downright cruel. Thanks...this could very well have happened. (I recently heard that she was walking through a common area which had the tv on.)

The media made it sound like a real conspiracy.
They pretty much said Casey was sat down in front of the tv with the sole purpose of taping her reaction.

 

[miabellamoure]

I really do not think anyone on this thread today feels sorry for Casey. We are not even concerned Baez is raising a stink. We were discussing... whether or not protocol was followed and if their is an "air" of inappropriatness.

I am questioning if this SOP procedure of the jail in a HIGH PROFILE case was correct and appropriate? Why would they have a TV in the medical area?

As so many have said, this is jail and it not supposed to be comfy yet can not anyone question why the inmates need to have a TV on while they sit and wait to get a pill?



Why even risk having Casey hear this on the NEWS?
Why give BAEZ anything to chew on?

What would have happened if her lawyer was present and a representative of LE and the warden would have been present to tell her?

DO YOU THINK HER REACTION COULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT and IF IT WAS.... what would we say now? I think we would still think she did it because their is OTHER EVIDENCE MORE DAMNING. We would all still think she was cold and calculating.

However, to not question those in authority and processes means you give up your rights. It is our duty as citizens to make sure all procedures are followed.

I will stick by my opinion... SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO SEE THE NEWS.

**red bolded by me**

Just wondering...are you saying that it's out of the ordinary for a TV to be found in a Medical/Clinic common area/waiting room?

Or just unusual in a jail infirmary type setting?

I wouldn't know about the latter since, I've managed to keep my nose clean so far and not like some others specifically, KC :liar:

I also agree (surprise!) about not giving JB anything to (b)itch about but, until we know all the actual facts as to precisely how this whole event really went down...it's a lot about nothing and I believe this is more than likely just one of many more things that KC can hang herself with.

 

[jjgram]

I heard it is hard to keep S E C R E T S >>> IN JAIL ! ! !
she is NOT in PRISON.... she is in jail ...right ! ?

so... people talk... other people watch TV and hear radios and
hear people talk...and talk on telephones...and have visitors...
plus.... people walk down the halls...and people talk in
the lunch room....

so........ she probably would have heard.... some how...

I really don't think anything was done wrong. I was always..
taught...
Don't do ANYTHING to end up in JAIL... that way you don't
have to complain how you get treated in JAIL... It is NOT A HOTEL!

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram

*** SEEKING ~ JUSTICE~ for Little Angel CAYLEE !
Murdered at the young age of 2 years old - in JUNE 2008 !
Probably by her so called Mother = KC Anthony.

 

[ibyoungr]

**red bolded by me**

Just wondering...are you saying that it's out of the ordinary for a TV to be found in a Medical/Clinic common area/waiting room?

Or just unusual in a jail infirmary type setting?

I wouldn't know about the latter since, I've managed to keep my nose clean so far and not like some others specifically, KC :liar:

I also agree (surprise!) about not giving JB anything to (b)itch about but, until we know all the actual facts as to precisely how this whole event really went down...it's a lot about nothing and I believe this is more than likely just one of many more things that KC can hang herself with.

I just do not think they need a tv in the medical commons area in a prison... Why do they need watch the news while they wait? It is prison, remember? I think they should handle high profile cases with a better procedure where the warden,LE and the attorney are present to tell her in her cell with meds close at hand. Like a shot with a needle..

I really do not care to much about her reaction because I do believe they have enough to get a guilty verdict without her "reaction" on tape. Even tho I would sure hate to see Baez get the video thrown out on some technicality. Just something for him to gloat about.

But I do want to hold the jail to the best standards possible and best operating procedures. If this process caused problems for the jail in then the SOP should be reviewed. Just because it is their SOP doesn't mean it is the best SOP.

If we took the testimony of the prison employee as fact. Then I say:

1. get rid of tv's in areas where prisonor may get the news before OFFICIALS give the news to the prisoner face to face.
Why take a prisoner into an area to break the news if FOX is going to do it first? To me that is a DUH!!! Especially in a high profile case.

2. So that attorneys can not whine about procedures.. make them part of the procedure.

Had these 2 items been part of the process. We would not be having this discussion. The jail needs to review their process.
(PS. This is not about cruelty to Casey or her rights - on that I could care less.)

 

[LisaNY]

I just do not think they need a tv in the medical commons area in a prison... Why do they need watch the news while they wait? It is prison, remember? I think they should handle high profile cases with a better procedure where the warden,LE and the attorney are present to tell her in her cell with meds close at hand. Like a shot with a needle..

I really do not care to much about her reaction because I do believe they have enough to get a guilty verdict without her "reaction" on tape. Even tho I would sure hate to see Baez get the video thrown out on some technicality. Just something for him to gloat about.

But I do want to hold the jail to the best standards possible and best operating procedures. If this process caused problems for the jail in then the SOP should be reviewed. Just because it is their SOP doesn't mean it is the best SOP.


If we took the testimony of the prison employee as fact. Then I say:

1. get rid of tv's in areas where prisonor may get the news before OFFICIALS give the news to the prisoner face to face.
Why take a prisoner into an area to break the news if FOX is going to do it first? To me that is a DUH!!! Especially in a high profile case.

2. So that attorneys can not whine about procedures.. make them part of the procedure.

Had these 2 items been part of the process. We would not be having this discussion. The jail needs to review their process.
(PS. This is not about cruelty to Casey or her rights - on that I could care less.)

I do understand what you are getting at, but your posts read as though SOP should be changed due to the unusual circumstances of KC. IMO, she gets enough special treatment. I am sure, the State of Fla will change their SOP of allowing other inmates (what about their rights) to have the luxury of tv on when there is another High Profile Murder case, where they are holding the accused mother in protective custody, in case she reacts in a way which may be looked at as unfavorable ..... oh my I would like to hear JB bumble his way thru that motion ... this just seems like a stretch to me.
And on another note, how long do you wait for the attorney to get there to include them in the process, what if the accused is not in protective custody, would other inmates be in lock down to avoid word of mouth? Or would all tvs be turned off in the jail? I could see the ACLU all over that. I do not see this scenario working either. I am sure that the facility could have prevented what happened in hindsight, but then again, in hindsight, I am sure this whole case could have been prevented. I think a better argument for change should be in regards to the Sunshine Laws.


All this is my opinion.

 

[MAMABEAR]

KC must have been watching television from her cell when the news came on about remains being found on Surbuban Drive. Remember KC had a radio in her cell and also mentioned that she could see part of the television from her cell. After she heard/saw what was found in the woods on Suburban Drive she freaked out, and asked for a sedative. She was then taken to the infirmary by a prison guard, and the television was on which is normal in the infirmary. The nurse gave her a sedative. As for Baez being allowed in the infirmary it is against prison policy that is why he was told he would have to wait ten minutes in case KC has a reaction to the medication. So, he waited the nurse brings KC into the infirmary hallway "which is a common area" and Baez is permitted to see KC. Why Baez is making such a big deal out of this attorney/client privledge is nonsense. If the tape contained atorney/client let the judge review it, and make his ruling.

This is the way I looked at this 2. Thanks Cat. I also think that this tape and the tape of JB and KC in the after math ---well, maybe the 2 tapes together would tell a more telling story. That is the tape I wanna see. Yummy. I don't see what difference it makes if the tape is seen in court. They have her one way or the other.

 

[BonKai]

My italic-my interpretation of this is that if the Lt. was put into place intentionally as part of a set up to observe Casey's reactions and her meeting with Baez outside of normal procedure, then the SA stepped in it.

How do you think they could prove it if "was put into place intentionally as part of a set up to observe Casey's reactions"?

 

[butwhatif?]

I really do not think anyone on this thread today feels sorry for Casey. We are not even concerned Baez is raising a stink. We were discussing... whether or not protocol was followed and if their is an "air" of inappropriatness.

I am questioning if this SOP procedure of the jail in a HIGH PROFILE case was correct and appropriate? Why would they have a TV in the medical area?

As so many have said, this is jail and it not supposed to be comfy yet can not anyone question why the inmates need to have a TV on while they sit and wait to get a pill?



Why even risk having Casey hear this on the NEWS?
Why give BAEZ anything to chew on?

What would have happened if her lawyer was present and a representative of LE and the warden would have been present to tell her?

DO YOU THINK HER REACTION COULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT and IF IT WAS.... what would we say now? I think we would still think she did it because their is OTHER EVIDENCE MORE DAMNING. We would all still think she was cold and calculating.

However, to not question those in authority and processes means you give up your rights. It is our duty as citizens to make sure all procedures are followed.

I will stick by my opinion... SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO SEE THE NEWS.

ITA! :clap:
And are we supposed to believe it was purely coincidental that at the very moment she was waiting to be seen, the news just happened to be broadcast about the remains being found?
I dont think so. This was carefully orchestrated imo. Upsetting KC doesnt worry me a bit. Using tactics that could get evidence thrown out does concern me.
JMO

 

[Chilly Willy]

ITA! :clap:
And are we supposed to believe it was purely coincidental that at the very moment she was waiting to be seen, the news just happened to be broadcast about the remains being found?
I dont think so. This was carefully orchestrated imo. Upsetting KC doesnt worry me a bit. Using tactics that could get evidence thrown out does concern me.
JMO

I agree. The jail personnel knew Casey was being brought to the infirmary for the sole reason of breaking the news about the remains being found. Leaving that TV on, when no other prisoners were in the waiting area, smacks of set-up, IMO.

 

[LeLe1953]

A prison minister delivered the news that the body had been ID'd as Caylee's...on 12/18 IIRC. The surveillance camera picked up Casey hearing about the initial discovery on 12/11.

I still do not have a problem with this technique. I do think she should have been in the medical area of the prison, because knowing her history like the personnel did, they needed to make sure that she had any treatment she needed....case in point, she needed drugs because she was hyperventilating.

I was under the impression KC was taken to medical. Like all other prisoners, she was first placed in the "waiting" area where the tv was on & there is a fixed camera there 24/7. Now, did they switch the TV from Days of Our Lives to the news, don't know. I also dont care. I agree it is an important part of the investigation.

 

[AnnaMouse]

Now, did they switch the TV from Days of Our Lives to the news, don't know.

In Orlando, the day the body was found, all programming was preempted by the breaking news. None of the regular shows (including soaps) were being shown for most of the day. ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX in Orlando were all showing the news most of the day. Most ran a scroll across the bottom saying things like: "Days of our Lives" will be shown in it's entirety at 11:00 PM tonight."

 

[circe257]

JB has stated he wants the tape suppressed of his client's reaction because he is afraid it will taint a jury. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-loc-casey-anthony-photos-022709,0,1868468.story

NeJame says: "...Uncer's statement to prosecutors could be a violation of Anthony's rights. NeJame also said Baez's argument could go either way, specifically in reference to what Uncer may have told prosecutors about Anthony's reaction to the breaking news. "Can the state question a corrections officer about their observations? Yes. However, if the corrections officer was acting as an arm of law enforcement or the state attorney's office and it was done secretly, there's some real trouble with that." http://www.clickorlando.com/news/18941559/detail.html#- Bold and underline mine.

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm guessing here....but I would guess their argument would be whether or not her 4th Amendment rights were violated?? In order for 4th Amendment protection to come into play the defendant has to have a reasonable expectation of privacy. If she was in a common area with a video camera I can't see how there is any reasonable expectation of privacy.

NeJame mentions that if Uncer were acting as an arm of LE that could be trouble. Has the Supreme Court not already ruled that prison/jail guards are basically agents of the government?? Am I wrong about that or are there caveats here that would apply?

I assume that as an inmate, if you are doing something illegal or even against prison/jail policy you would hide that from the guard because you know you will get into trouble.....Wouldn't a similar principle apply here? (i.e. not wanting the guards to see your reaction.)

It is unknown whether she was specifically taken to the common area to witness the news about the remains - all the articles only say that "a source" said she was and that LE wanted to know her reaction. For all we know that source could have been JB. She could have been going to the medical center for something unrelated, or she just could have been in the common area for her daily outing. Personally, I don't believe they were escorting her to the medical area to "tell her" the news. The remains had not been identified at that point so there was nothing to tell her.

I think JB wants it excluded because if her non-reaction to the find at JBP got no reaction and this find got a severe reaction then it certainly wouldn't look good for his client and might possibly taint potential jurors. It will be interesting to see if this gets in at trial. I wish a "legal eagle" would weigh in.

 

[Spangle]

This part has me befuddled:



Why did they take her from her cell? Why not wait and let Baez or a family member inform her of the find rather than take her to the common area to watch the TV coverage? It's not the prison's job to inform her.

I'm befuddled that your befuddled. Inmates are listen to, watched, and what ever, in hopes of catching then in a past crime, present crime, talking about someone else s past crime or present crimes, etc.

Their mail is read when it comes in, it is read when it goes out. Their phone calls are monitored, etc.

There is no privacy in Jail. You shat, wipe, insert tampons and shower all without privacy. Some one can see you at any time.

The real question here is, WHY should they wait?

If they wait, then it can be precieved as keeping info from her. Not all inmates have family on the out side that would make the effort to notify them of a family members death or anything else. So waiting for family isn't the 'across the board' solution. Lawyers are not generally that close, and family deaths are considered family stuff. So it's not the lawyers job either. The only reason JB felt that he should be the one to tell her, is because Caylee's death is why she is in Jail. So he is making it seem like he and only he should have told her. If she wasn't up on murder charges because of Caylee's death, then he wouldn't have been so desperate to be the one to tell her. Nor would he felt that he HAD to be the one to tell her.. What? To bill her for a different, private matter??

 

[Spangle]

I agree. The jail personnel knew Casey was being brought to the infirmary for the sole reason of breaking the news about the remains being found. Leaving that TV on, when no other prisoners were in the waiting area, smacks of set-up, IMO.

LOL! Turning off the tv because she was there, would be giving her special treatment.. would it not?

Catch 22...

This is really very easy. When the search was going on in the park, what was the procedure? Was she kept from all TV's and no one allowed to look at her and notice any reactions, etc? That "no" reactions was reported, why hasn't that been an issue. I mean, why hasn't her lawyer had a fit that her reactions to the park search was noticed and discussed?

I think her reaction to the park search is just as telling. Here are people actively searching for her baby, who would would think she would want to have found. A mother waiting word over their love one.. and she just turns her nose up at it, and ignores it. Not interested. If their was a Possiblity that the Nanny story was true, it would be possible that Caylee could have ended up in that river... But she was Cool as a cucumber. Very chilling.

What happened in December, that was no different. .. A for as the system goes.

 

[mitzi]

But if they hadn't taken her to the infirmary, she wouldn't have seen the TV coverage and there would have been no bad reaction.

Maybe jail officials were concerned that another inmate, who may have been watching the TV in the common room near the cells, may have seen something, and shouted to KC, "hey, baby killer, they found Caylee"! or something like that. So they took her to the nurse's station instead. I know other inmates are celled within shouting distance to KC's cell, and some may have radios too.

 

[cyberborg]

It was brought up in court. Baez is fighting the release of the tape.

The funny thing is, this is all backfiring. JB is making this and him allegedly crying with KC later a bigger story than it needed to be. It is prolonging and hyping the story such that everyone who never knew or saw the original news will now know and want to see the tape, if it is ever released. Even if the tape is not released then the damage has been done since we heard the details, which may be spin worse than the tape and, we are getting more specific details leaked.

Ever get the feeling that the player is getting played and the media and public are feeding it?

 

[sumbunny]

I wonder if Uncer was the one that also commented on casey's reaction to the jay blanchard park findings..

Her reaction was also witnessed, yet Baez isn't throwing a hissy fit about that.
Do you think there were camera's capturing her reaction during her "tv session" at that time?