2008.12.11 Lt. Tammy Uncer Interview "Jail worker who saw KC's reaction"

[ThoughtElf]

Ya know this scenario makes the most sense to me. The way media reported the events was awful...sounded downright cruel. Thanks...this could very well have happened. (I recently heard that she was walking through a common area which had the tv on.)

We've been at this so many months now. Must resist conspiracy theory temptations, RR, or we'll still be doing :banghead: like the long nights sleuthing Zani. :crazy:

Seriously, on topic, I do believe there is an explanation that will be defensible. IMO, if the tape isn't released, it will be due to a HIPPA glitch, but, I still think Lt. Uncer's testimony will be admissible.

 

[ThoughtElf]

Maybe jail officials were concerned that another inmate, who may have been watching the TV in the common room near the cells, may have seen something, and shouted to KC, "hey, baby killer, they found Caylee"! or something like that. So they took her to the nurse's station instead. I know other inmates are celled within shouting distance to KC's cell, and some may have radios too.

That's a really good thought as a possibility.

TY

 

[Melanie]

A prison minister delivered the news that the body had been ID'd as Caylee's...on 12/18 IIRC. The surveillance camera picked up Casey hearing about the initial discovery on 12/11.

I still do not have a problem with this technique. I do think she should have been in the medical area of the prison, because knowing her history like the personnel did, they needed to make sure that she had any treatment she needed....case in point, she needed drugs because she was hyperventilating.

You are spot on. My recollection (and correct me if I'm wrong).

Prison minister meets with her in her cell and tells her the news. (do we know she actually saw it on the news -- I can't imagine a tele in the medical area).
She starts to hyperventilate - and is taken to the medical treatment area
During this time - Jose is trying to get in
KC tells doc she needs an anxiety mediction (could be before or after JB is let in).
Jose goes to medical area where KC is being treated
IMHO - Jose could have AT ANY TIME asked to be escorted with KC to a private room with no cameras.
IMHO - he didn't do that

I don't think the jail did anything wrong. Remember KC is the best actor on the planet -- She had the choice of not responding at all -- really. She must have known (with all her defense team coaching) to not say a thing or show responses. I remember her saying on one of the videos: I eat, so they won't bother me, I sleep so they won't bother me.

Again - All IMHO -- I don't believe this was a set up.

Melanie

 

[Kimster]

Bottom line is that if there is any way that by allowing the tape to be used at trial could possibly allow KC to be able to appeal later on down the road, then leave the video out. There is PLENTY of other evidence to convict her.

 

[impatientredhead]

Bottom line is that if there is any way that by allowing the tape to be used at trial could possibly allow KC to be able to appeal later on down the road, then leave the video out. There is PLENTY of other evidence to convict her.

I am in complete agreement with this train of thought. I don't think we will see the video in court anyway, that is unless there is something else on that tape other then a complete flip out and a "this can't be happening now" statement.

Unless she said something along the lines of "I thought they moved it, I thought they checked there and it was gone" something along those lines letting the jury see the video calls for complete speculation about what her response indicates. That is not solid evidence.

I of course think she is guilty and would like to view the tape, but as a court issue I don't see its value and think it only risks an appeal issue if the tape is considered to be inflammatory or prejudicial.

and as a side note I would assume your average defense attorney could explain fairly rationally that a mother who has claimed her child to be kidnapped months ago hearing news that a toddlers body has been found less than 1800 feet from the home could logically have a flipped out, panicked response to that news.

 

[CourtsInSession]

You and Chilly are both right - it seems cruel to me.

Yes, it would be cruel if Casey didn't know if Caylee were alive or dead. Since Casey already knew full well where she left Caylee's body, it shouldn't have been a surprise or shock to her whatsoever.

 

[impatientredhead]

The funny thing is, this is all backfiring. JB is making this and him allegedly crying with KC later a bigger story than it needed to be. It is prolonging and hyping the story such that everyone who never knew or saw the original news will now know and want to see the tape, if it is ever released. Even if the tape is not released then the damage has been done since we heard the details, which may be spin worse than the tape and, we are getting more specific details leaked.

Ever get the feeling that the player is getting played and the media and public are feeding it?

Or JB is playing it well and it making it more likely that the judge will deem the tapes to be prejudicial and not for the eyes of the jury. The bigger storm that surrounds them the more likely he is to get that ruling.

Of course we have no idea if the prosecution plans to play them in court.

 

[ThoughtElf]

You are spot on. My recollection (and correct me if I'm wrong).

Prison minister meets with her in her cell and tells her the news. (do we know she actually saw it on the news -- I can't imagine a tele in the medical area).
She starts to hyperventilate - and is taken to the medical treatment area
During this time - Jose is trying to get in
KC tells doc she needs an anxiety mediction (could be before or after JB is let in).
Jose goes to medical area where KC is being treated
IMHO - Jose could have AT ANY TIME asked to be escorted with KC to a private room with no cameras.
IMHO - he didn't do that

I don't think the jail did anything wrong. Remember KC is the best actor on the planet -- She had the choice of not responding at all -- really. She must have known (with all her defense team coaching) to not say a thing or show responses. I remember her saying on one of the videos: I eat, so they won't bother me, I sleep so they won't bother me.

Again - All IMHO -- I don't believe this was a set up.

Melanie

I believe you are outlining the sequence of events that took place on Dec. 19th, the date Caylee's remains were identified as opposed to the events that took place on Dec. 11th, when Caylee's remains were found, but not yet identified.

The tape in question deals with Dec. 11th, not Dec. 19th, if I've been following this correctly?

 

[costalpilot]

thanks for clarifying. I went back to some old news articles and found that it was the minister that told her it was Caylee. However, I still think it was ODD that she was watching the news on 12/11 unless they were wanting to video her reaction.

I think they should have NOT let her watch the news... they should have told her in her cell or medical treatment area. I just do not want Team Casey having ANY reason to win anything.

they let her watch it to get her initial reaction because they had a pretty good idea she would incriminate herself, which she did.

good job.

 

[costalpilot]

Or JB is playing it well and it making it more likely that the judge will deem the tapes to be prejudicial and not for the eyes of the jury. The bigger storm that surrounds them the more likely he is to get that ruling.

Of course we have no idea if the prosecution plans to play them in court.

i have an idea they are planning to show them in court.

 

[Asti]

Is it possible that KC's reaction was all fake. I keep thinking that she has some real issues with feelings, I doubt she has many. Anyway, if you don't have normal feelings then you don't really know how you are supposed to react, you are always guessing at times when others think you need to show feelings. The last time a search went on and she didn't care (if her story is the Nanny has her and she talked to Caylee and she is fine then in HER thinking you wouldn't be worried about bones found at the park) everyone went crazy saying she did it wrong. So, this time she decides to show a reaction to news of the bones being found only she got it wrong since she didn't think how it would really just look like she already knew they would truly be Caylee this time. I don't see her lies as ever being especially clever, they always would have been easy to disprove if anyone had taken the time to check things out. I don't think this girl thinks or feels like most people. Remember she told her paren'ts "this will all blow over" and I believe that is what she thinks. That is how things worked in her life. Parents get mad, it blows over, friends get mad, it blows over, kill your child, it will blow over too. If you don't have normal feelings then the death of your child isn't any different than every other thing you have done that others don't like in the past , it is just an inconvenience for you until it blows over and everyone gets over it.

 

[Baznme]

Yes, it would be cruel if Casey didn't know if Caylee were alive or dead. Since Casey already knew full well where she left Caylee's body, it shouldn't have been a surprise or shock to her whatsoever.

It was a shock because she got caught! Remember the statement to RD in the car "they haven't even found the clothes yet"?! Too bad THAT wasn't on camera. Not only have they found the clothes, they found Caylee too. That's what's cruel if you ask me.

 

[Asti]

I am not so sure KC thinks about getting caught. She lies about stuff that are sure to be found to be a lie at some point but it doesn't stop her. I don't think she thinks about any of this stuff like the rest of us would. I just don't think she is wired that way. She seems to have no plan for her lies other than to get her what she wants at the moment. Most people would be a wreck worrying about getting caught, I don't see her that way at all. I think of her when she was being arrested, she just doesn't seem to react to serious things like other people. Now have her parents quiz her on her behavior and boy does she ever react. She doesn't want them to question her and if they do she will not speak to them. My guess after seeing the video where she threatened to end the conversation is at home if they asked too many questions she grabbed her child and walked out the door.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

More smoke and mirrors on Baez's part. JMO. He doesn't have a clue what he's doing.

IDK, sometimes I think JB is outright stupid, but then I wonder if he's not crazy....like a fox. The jail personel did nothing that would really help/harm the case by taking Casey to an area where the TV was on (and with all of the misinformation that the media has broadcast and ammended over the last 8 months, we won't know the factual details of that day until trial). By drawing all of this attention to the video, some of the folks here on the site are feeling sorry for KC. In other words, JB is successfully humanizing her to potential jury pools simply by fighting the video's release. It (and many of the other seemingly senseless motions) may be a well calculated ploy on the part of the defense team.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

Is it possible that KC's reaction was all fake. I keep thinking that she has some real issues with feelings, I doubt she has many. Anyway, if you don't have normal feelings then you don't really know how you are supposed to react, you are always guessing at times when others think you need to show feelings. The last time a search went on and she didn't care (if her story is the Nanny has her and she talked to Caylee and she is fine then in HER thinking you wouldn't be worried about bones found at the park) everyone went crazy saying she did it wrong. So, this time she decides to show a reaction to news of the bones being found only she got it wrong since she didn't think how it would really just look like she already knew they would truly be Caylee this time. I don't see her lies as ever being especially clever, they always would have been easy to disprove if anyone had taken the time to check things out. I don't think this girl thinks or feels like most people. Remember she told her paren'ts "this will all blow over" and I believe that is what she thinks. That is how things worked in her life. Parents get mad, it blows over, friends get mad, it blows over, kill your child, it will blow over too. If you don't have normal feelings then the death of your child isn't any different than every other thing you have done that others don't like in the past , it is just an inconvenience for you until it blows over and everyone gets over it.

a strong possibility

 

[kageykaren]

I am not so sure KC thinks about getting caught. She lies about stuff that are sure to be found to be a lie at some point but it doesn't stop her. I don't think she thinks about any of this stuff like the rest of us would. I just don't think she is wired that way. She seems to have no plan for her lies other than to get her what she wants at the moment. Most people would be a wreck worrying about getting caught, I don't see her that way at all. I think of her when she was being arrested, she just doesn't seem to react to serious things like other people. Now have her parents quiz her on her behavior and boy does she ever react. She doesn't want them to question her and if they do she will not speak to them. My guess after seeing the video where she threatened to end the conversation is at home if they asked too many questions she grabbed her child and walked out the door.

My opinion only is that kC appears to lie to stall, get a reaction, and create another lie based on that reaction and the process is repeated causing a snowball of Lies. I think this has been Kc's mode of action after she murdered her child.
the lies kC created before the murder of Caylee were to set the stage for whenever she was ready to do the dirty deed she did DIRT cheap.

 

[Searchfortruth]

Is it possible that KC's reaction was all fake. I keep thinking that she has some real issues with feelings, I doubt she has many. Anyway, if you don't have normal feelings then you don't really know how you are supposed to react, you are always guessing at times when others think you need to show feelings. The last time a search went on and she didn't care (if her story is the Nanny has her and she talked to Caylee and she is fine then in HER thinking you wouldn't be worried about bones found at the park) everyone went crazy saying she did it wrong. So, this time she decides to show a reaction to news of the bones being found only she got it wrong since she didn't think how it would really just look like she already knew they would truly be Caylee this time. I don't see her lies as ever being especially clever, they always would have been easy to disprove if anyone had taken the time to check things out. I don't think this girl thinks or feels like most people. Remember she told her paren'ts "this will all blow over" and I believe that is what she thinks. That is how things worked in her life. Parents get mad, it blows over, friends get mad, it blows over, kill your child, it will blow over too. If you don't have normal feelings then the death of your child isn't any different than every other thing you have done that others don't like in the past , it is just an inconvenience for you until it blows over and everyone gets over it.

I was thinking this,may be, one of the only times where the feelings exhibited by Casey were REAL.

 

[circe257]

Is it possible that KC's reaction was all fake. I keep thinking that she has some real issues with feelings, I doubt she has many. Anyway, if you don't have normal feelings then you don't really know how you are supposed to react, you are always guessing at times when others think you need to show feelings. The last time a search went on and she didn't care (if her story is the Nanny has her and she talked to Caylee and she is fine then in HER thinking you wouldn't be worried about bones found at the park) everyone went crazy saying she did it wrong. So, this time she decides to show a reaction to news of the bones being found only she got it wrong since she didn't think how it would really just look like she already knew they would truly be Caylee this time. I don't see her lies as ever being especially clever, they always would have been easy to disprove if anyone had taken the time to check things out. I don't think this girl thinks or feels like most people. Remember she told her paren'ts "this will all blow over" and I believe that is what she thinks. That is how things worked in her life. Parents get mad, it blows over, friends get mad, it blows over, kill your child, it will blow over too. If you don't have normal feelings then the death of your child isn't any different than every other thing you have done that others don't like in the past , it is just an inconvenience for you until it blows over and everyone gets over it.

I agree in part with some of your observations, but I don't think her alleged reaction to the remains found near her home was because she was tailoring her response to what people expected. If that were the case, she would have shown emotion earlier on and more frequently. The only time she really seemed to have an emotional reaction at all was when CA and LA confronted her the night CA called police (supposedly), when the GJ indicted her and one of her first appearances in court (bond hearing maybe).
Part of the problem with this case is we're all trying to view her with what would be normal for anyone, but normal doesn't fit here, if it did, the events leading up to this case wouldn't have happened. I don't think her alleged reaction to the unidentified remains near her house had anything to do with oh my gosh, my poor daughter.....I think they had everything to do with oh my gosh, I'm really in it now. JMO.

 

[Chezhire]

The jail did not use the same 'protocol' when LP found the bag of rocks during his media event at Blanchard Park. Instead of taking Casey to the infirmary to watch the news, they led her away from the TV and put her back in her cell.

That's not correct. Casey had already inadvertently seen the JBP coverage when the jail personnel turned off the tv, and showed no reaction so, therefore, there was no need to worry about a "first reaction" and take her to the infirmary to hear the news she'd just heard :doh:

At WS time 11:03 a.m., with Murt covering it live, the first news of a find was of a bag with some sort of toy in it, here, posted by Amster: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...97#post2936697 and also here, by Amster: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...21#post2937521 , all of which reflect that as of the noon news in Orlando, the news stations were covering this find and all the events following it. See also WSer sarah7855's post, which was the very first to confirm this, here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...56#post2937256

By 1:00 p.m. WS time, now two hours after the news stations were reporting the BP findings, we were able to click and read print articles from the news stations, for example, WESH, that small bones were found with the toys in some plastic bag, see here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...35#post2937735 . OSCO was not at the scene and it had been already 2 hours since the Orlando news stations were reporting about the bag with the bones and child's toys, child's shoe, etc. TexasLil posted Padilla was saying on news stations in FL that they'd found bones size of a child's fingers and toes, post # 650, here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=74941&page=26

Regarding Casey's reaction to the newscasts, see Angel_Who_Cares, post # 28, here:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...rd+park&page=2 and the WESH article itself, here: http://www.wesh.com/news/17974753/detail.html
"A jail spokesman said she was watching television in a jail dayroom when news came from Blanchard Park. Guards asked her to return to her cell when they saw what was being broadcast, and Anthony went without comment, spokesman Allen Moore said."

So it is all in how one interprets what the news article says and doesn't say...

Me? I read it to mean that once the guards saw what Casey was watching, which was the findings at JBP, in a jail dayroom (which is typically a very public place, viewable by other inmates who might be passing through in the halls, etc.) they decided to shut that down and get her back to her cell, in case Casey did wind up having some terrible reaction and/or needed "privacy." LOL. (Sarcasm intended.) So...Casey saw the news as it was rolling and had no reaction. (I add that if she had been watching the news reports that LE had discounted the findings and were saying they were NOT bones, why any need to shut off the television and send her back to her cell? Zero need, as who would react to a news report discounting things that had been found.)

 

[Chezhire]

i have an idea they are planning to show them in court.

I haven't read or seen anything on the news that makes me feel one way or the other re: whether or not the SA intends to rely upon any of the videotaped footage from the jail. I think we'll have to wait and see what the SA's response will be.