2009.10.09 Duct Tape Photos From Remains Released

[AZlawyer]

Thanks AZ! I noticed your link to the skull measurements also had measurements for 3-4 year olds. The measurements are the same for the 2-3 year olds (with the exception of width grows 1/4" - to 4 3/4").

BJB - could you use your magic on the link provided above?
Or the person with the magic calipers (sorry forgot who) on the tape?
I am sure given the dimensions, there is a real techy talented person who could line up the dimensions of the tape, the potato head mouth, and the child skull. I so wish I had the knowledge and ability to do this - but I will bow from the waist and recite "Alla Alla Alla" to the person who could!

It's the curvature of the jaw that makes this tough. Which is not to say I'm giving up.

 

[steadychick]

Just FYI- Q104 had other colored fibers on it (blue, off-white, opaque black and grey brown).

The blue and red fibers have shown up on several items though. For example, according to my notes, red fibers were on Q26 debris from trunk and Q54 vacuumings of spare tire wheel well. I mentioned the red fibers because that connection to the trunk may be important.

That red plaid blanket could very well have had ALL those color fibers in it. I sure hope LE has some other info about that blanket. Since all the Anthony's had bins in their trunks, perhaps Cindy saw to it that they all had blankets. Would be nice if there was one like it in Cindy's trunk, although I suppose if there was it is long gone also.

 

[AZlawyer]

OK, from placing a ruler against the front and side views of the 2-3 year old skull model I've been referencing, it appears that the width of the mandible is about 7/10 the largest width of the skull, which is 4.5", and the length (front to back) of the mandible is about 17/40 of the total length of the skull, which is 6.5". Applying these ratios, we get a mandible 3.15" wide (going straight across the back) and 2.76" long (front to back).

Treating the mandible as a half-ellipse, the full ellipse would have a long axis of 5.52" (double the length of the mandible), a short axis of 3.15" and a circumference of 14.12" based on this handy calculator: http://www.csgnetwork.com/circumellipse.html. The length of the curve from hinge to hinge of the jaw across the front of the mouth should be half that, or 7.06", on this "typical" 2-3 year old skull. This looks about right for Caylee from the photo I linked a couple of posts back, in which she has a 2-inch Mr. Potato Head mouth in her mouth.

Q64, the piece of tape most likely to have been placed across the mouth area, is about 8.75" long. IMO, plenty long enough to hold the mandible in place until the hair mat formed under the skull.

 

[notthatsmart]

I noticed today in the collection logs that a piece of Henkel duct tape was collected on Dec 12th. I wonder which one this was. There is a fox news photo of the Laundry bag and garbage bag in place at the crime scene on the 11th. The bags went to the M.E. office on the 11th. So does that mean that the Henkel Duct tape that was collected on the 12th at 10 am was under the bag? Does anyone know? thanks

 

[AZlawyer]

I noticed today in the collection logs that a piece of Henkel duct tape was collected on Dec 12th. I wonder which one this was. There is a fox news photo of the Laundry bag and garbage bag in place at the crime scene on the 11th. The bags went to the M.E. office on the 11th. So does that mean that the Henkel Duct tape that was collected on the 12th at 10 am was under the bag? Does anyone know? thanks

It was Q104. It was found close to Caylee's shirt remnants. (The other 3 pieces were all found on Caylee's skull. ) Q104 is the piece that has red fibers, unlike any of the other pieces, and no head hair, unlike any of the other pieces, but does have "fringe hairs." Some of us theorize that it might have been used on Caylee's hands or forearms.

 

[notthatsmart]

It was Q104. It was found close to Caylee's shirt remnants. (The other 3 pieces were all found on Caylee's skull. ) Q104 is the piece that has red fibers, unlike any of the other pieces, and no head hair, unlike any of the other pieces, but does have "fringe hairs." Some of us theorize that it might have been used on Caylee's hands or forearms.

But have you looked at the fox news photo of the Laundry bag and garbage bag in place at the reverse vegetation spot? Those were collected on the 11th, q 104 was collected on the 12th. I don't see the duct tape in that photo, do you? I will look for the link. thanks

 

[Anais]

So...8-9" would go around...um...to me this speaks of premed...because I envision rage at being 3" strips...not wrapped around...

*** Shivers with Goosebumps ***


You are all terrific, and also doing wonderful work here! I'm not good at helping with this kind of stuff but want you all to know how much we all appreciate the work done!!!


** Now I'm running out of this thread to try and lose the picture of Casey taping Caylee out of my head! ** :furious:

 

[AZlawyer]

But have you looked at the fox news photo of the Laundry bag and garbage bag in place at the reverse vegetation spot? Those were collected on the 11th, q 104 was collected on the 12th. I don't see the duct tape in that photo, do you? I will look for the link. thanks

IIRC, Q104 was near the shirt remnants, and I don't believe the shirt remnants were found with the bags. I'm not sure how the bags came into the discussion of where Q104 was found.

 

[LandAuxvasse]

IIRC, Q104 was near the shirt remnants, and I don't believe the shirt remnants were found with the bags. I'm not sure how the bags came into the discussion of where Q104 was found.

Does anyone know or remember if the letters on the shirt that spelled out the big trouble phrase were red? Could the Q104 piece of tape have been placed across Caylee's arms or hands and taping them to her shirt to keep her from pulling the tape from her face? I can picture this if Caylee was laying down, but not so sure it would fit if she was in her car seat? But it could explain the fibers if they're a match to the letters and also explain fringe hair.

 

[notthatsmart]

IIRC, Q104 was near the shirt remnants, and I don't believe the shirt remnants were found with the bags. I'm not sure how the bags came into the discussion of where Q104 was found.

Not trying to go off topic here. Was just trying to figure out where q104 came from and then further look at the pictures to confirm. According to Susan Mears the bags are in close proximity to the bones, skull, shorts and shirt. I know on the 11th they collected the skull with duct tape and bags. Its listed in the collection reports, but q104 was collected the next day after all the other stuff was collected. I wanted to try to determine exactly where q104 was located before trying to determine where any red fibers came from. Where are you seeing that q104 was near the shirt?

 

[Harmony 2]

Not trying to go off topic here. Was just trying to figure out where q104 came from and then further look at the pictures to confirm. According to Susan Mears the bags are in close proximity to the bones, skull, shorts and shirt. I know on the 11th they collected the skull with duct tape and bags. Its listed in the collection reports, but q104 was collected the next day after all the other stuff was collected. I wanted to try to determine exactly where q104 was located before trying to determine where any red fibers came from. Where are you seeing that q104 was near the shirt?

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4270354&postcount=5"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The single piece of Henkel Duct Tape found NOT on remains[/ame]

 

[LandAuxvasse]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The single piece of Henkel Duct Tape found NOT on remains

Thank you, Harmony2, that pdf also says the color of the letters was pink

 

[Woe.be.gone]

http://www.wftv.com/blank/19342108/detail.html

pdf. pgs. 5 and 6, written 5585/86 FBI Laboratory report dated January 27, 2009.


page 5585 (pdf 5)

ITEMS FROM MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE

Q59 Hair Mass
Q60 Debris from Skull
Q62-Q64 Tape

ITEM FROM RESIDENCE

Q66 Tape (OCSO Item #65, Q-76)

This report contains results of the trace evidence examinations (hair and fiber) and supplements FBI Laboratory report dated December 19, 2008.



Page 5586 (pdf 6)

Textile fibers of various types and colors were recovered from speciments Q60, Q62-Q64, and Q66.*


*Q66 = gas can (from my notes)

Read more on pdf pg. 6/link above.

 

[AZlawyer]

The specific fibers that were found on the tape:

Q62–on skull-
white textured delustered polyester-type
black wool (l)
blue cotton (l)
off-white (d)

Q63–on skull, crossed over Q64-
white textured delustered polyester-type
black wool (l)
blue cotton (l)

Q64–on skull-
white textured delustered polyester-type
black wool (l)
blue cotton (l)

Q66–on gas can-
white textured delustered
blue delustered (l)
white round delustered
black cotton
blue cotton
off-white (d)
blue (d)

Q104–crime scene-
red cotton
blue cotton
off-white (d)
black (d) (mostly opaque)
grey-brown (d)
blue (d)

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Ran across the following description in my notes looking for Q number info - to review (Supplemental Report pg. #3378)

"The skull appeared to be that of a small child. The duct tape over the mouth area of the skull appears to have caught up the hair along the side of the skull.
This is what appears to have kept the tape in place. The hair had to be cut in order for the tape to be properly removed in the way it was found.
On the tape within a black oval was written the word "HENKEL". Also written on the tape was ...... ."
The tape was affixed to the skull in such a manner that the mandible was still adjacent to the skull."


As told by Sprv. Susan Mears in Homicide Supplimental 08-122093

pg. 3465 - "I observed a rotting log located on the west side of a small path. To the east of this log I observed a small skull with duct tape over the lower area.
The hair had mostly fallen from the skull and was surrounding the base of the skull on the ground. Also noted were a black plastic bag . . . .

...the scene was documented and photographed. Investigator Hanson moved the rotting log located to the east of the remains.
Investigator Hanson collected the skull. ...

-------------
Skull - Lane 4 - Just past the end of a wooden fence, was a path leading south into the wood line.
Within a short distance down this path, and to the west (right), was a black plastic bag and lying next to it what appeared to be a human skull. ...

-------------
The skull was found in Lane 4.
If tape had been placed over the eyes, it probably would have stayed on the skull and held the hair up (hair found laying down around the skull) or, if the tape came detached from the skull, it would have taken some hair with it. :twocents:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The single piece of Henkel Duct Tape found NOT on remains

The link within this link didn't work for me.
The post says the tape was found in Zone 20; I'm trying to uncover what lane.

 

[LandAuxvasse]

The link within this link didn't work for me.
The post says the tape was found in Zone 20; I'm trying to uncover what lane.

There was no lane notated for Q100 (Q104 in this thread) anywhere in that particular document.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The single piece of Henkel Duct Tape found NOT on remains

I bumped the above thread because there is a lot discussed there that is the same as here -

Post 13 of 10/10/09 in The single piece of Henkel ....thread

"Q62, Q64 and Q104 are microscopically dissimilar in fiber composition to Q66 ..."

The fibers on the tape on the gas can does not match the fiber on the tape found on Caylee.

It's unclear what Zone 20 is (Valhall posted that everything taken from the A home was listed as Zone 20 on Dec. 11 or 12).

Non Henkel tape was found nearer to the fence.

Q66 (OCSO Q76)
Q104 (OCSO Q100)

 

[LandAuxvasse]

I bumped the above thread because there is a lot discussed there that is the same as here -

Post 13 of 10/10/09 in The single piece of Henkel ....thread

"Q62, Q64 and Q104 are microscopically dissimilar in fiber composition to Q66 ..."

The fibers on the tape on the gas can does not match the fiber on the tape found on Caylee.

It's unclear what Zone 20 is (Valhall posted that everything taken from the A home was listed as Zone 20 on Dec. 11 or 12).

Non Henkel tape was found nearer to the fence.

Q66 (OCSO Q76)
Q104 (OCSO Q100)

In the pdf file noted above, the Q100 was found at 8900 Block Suburban Dr... says 1148 Hrs

ETA: Most of the documents in that pdf (description of evidence collected from multiple locations) had Zone 20 in the upper left corner. A few that didn't were evidence collected from the car; evidence "entered at OPS"; Colonial Dr and some others.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The specific fibers that were found on the tape:

Q62–on skull-
white textured delustered polyester-type
black wool (l)
blue cotton (l)
off-white (d)

Q63–on skull, crossed over Q64-
white textured delustered polyester-type
black wool (l)
blue cotton (l)

Q64–on skull-
white textured delustered polyester-type
black wool (l)
blue cotton (l)

Q66–on gas can-
white textured delustered
blue delustered (l)
white round delustered
black cotton
blue cotton
off-white (d)
blue (d)

Q104–crime scene-
red cotton
blue cotton
off-white (d)
black (d) (mostly opaque)
grey-brown (d)
blue (d)

Call me confused. Where is the Q104 fiber report evidence coming from?

I just ran across a post (#361 dated 10/3/09 in the Evidence thread) that lists:
Q104 Tape crime scene no hair present no trunk fibers :waitasec: