2009.11.06 Forensic Entomology Report Released #2

[LambChop]

I just wonder how that smell is still lingering. I think it would be a mistake for the Sa to take the jurrors there. First of all, they would have to be experienced in the smell to be familiar with it. I did not see where the entamologist said it still smelled like human decomp? Just smelled like decomp. Could be anything? This could back fire on Sa, like the gloves did in the Oj case. Moo

You do not have to be an expert. It is different than any other odor. Only one person on the jury would have to have smelled it before and they could convince the rest, yep...that's it. But to be honest, the juror's will probably trust the experts. And yes, after two years it will still smell bad and the juror's will note that also. JMO

 

[Intermezzo]

I just wonder how that smell is still lingering. I think it would be a mistake for the Sa to take the jurrors there. First of all, they would have to be experienced in the smell to be familiar with it. I did not see where the entamologist said it still smelled like human decomp? Just smelled like decomp. Could be anything? This could back fire on Sa, like the gloves did in the Oj case. Moo

NTS,

1. Why do you think it would be (as you say above) "a mistake" for the State of Florida Prosecutors to take the jurors to the vehicle? The car is evidence.


2. Why do you believe the jurors (as you say above) "would have to be experienced in the smell"?
Is it written in law or rules and procedures that a juror needs to be familiar with the smell of decomp?

Just wondering.

 

[notthatsmart]

NTS,

1. Why do you think it would be (as you say above) "a mistake" for the State of Florida Prosecutors to take the jurors to the vehicle? The car is evidence.


2. Why do you believe the jurors (as you say above) "would have to be experienced in the smell"?
Is it written in law or rules and procedures that a juror needs to be familiar with the smell of decomp?

Just wondering.

I just felt it might be risky since the original Police officers didn't secure the car right away. That the smell may not be as bad as everyone thinks. It seems to me if it really smelled like human decomp, the police would have sealed it off as a crime scene right away. 2 years out, it can't possibly be as strong. Yuri fell short of calling it human decomp as well in the bond hearing. These things indicate to me that there was a smell there but the smell was not that strong or it didn't smell like human decomp. That is why I feel it would be a mistake for Sa. If it doesn't smell strong or unbearable, it may have the opposite effect on the jury. That is just my opinion.

I thought it might be helpful to have experience in the smell. To not have smelled it before, you have nothing to compare it to. You could only determine that it was awful. Sa is certainly welcome to take the jury to the car and open up the trunk and let them smell it. The defense may be all for it. They certainly took HL in there and were not worried about it. Moo

 

[marspiter]

I had a family member die in their house and it was 2 weeks before he was found. We had a cleaning company come out to the house and you still couldn't get the smell out. The person died in their recliner. Every piece of furniture in the living room had to be tossed. The wood floor under the lay-z-boy had permanent stains in it. We tried sanding it but the stain was all the way to the bottom of the wood (sad too cause the would floor was over 100 years old and in gorgeous shape). The wall paper had to be removed several coats of killz primer were applied to the walls before the color coat. In other rooms of the house everything that was fabric or "soft" material had to be washed several times, or tossed. Most of it was tossed.

So after having a professional cleaning company come out. Getting everything out of the house and doing renovations. That room still smelled as did the rest of the house. The rest of the house wasn't to bad but the room the person died in still had a pronounced "odor".

In fact that odor was still rather pronounced a year later which was the last time I was in the house.

 

[RainyGirl]

I just felt it might be risky since the original Police officers didn't secure the car right away. That the smell may not be as bad as everyone thinks. It seems to me if it really smelled like human decomp, the police would have sealed it off as a crime scene right away. 2 years out, it can't possibly be as strong. Yuri fell short of calling it human decomp as well in the bond hearing. These things indicate to me that there was a smell there but the smell was not that strong or it didn't smell like human decomp. That is why I feel it would be a mistake for Sa. If it doesn't smell strong or unbearable, it may have the opposite effect on the jury. That is just my opinion.

I thought it might be helpful to have experience in the smell. To not have smelled it before, you have nothing to compare it to. You could only determine that it was awful. Sa is certainly welcome to take the jury to the car and open up the trunk and let them smell it. The defense may be all for it. They certainly took HL in there and were not worried about it. Moo

~And Dr. Henry Lee never returned to further examine the car (look under the frame) if I am recalling correctly. I wonder why Dr. Lee appears to have left the case?? Could it be that he immedietely identified the smell of human decomposition and this finding did not support the defense claim that Caylee was never in the trunk? Have we heard any more about Dr. Lee being on a defense witness list? Have we heard anything about reciprocal discovery at all? It is Feb 1st, after all.........(and please do not "blame" the lack of defense investigation/recip discovery on the 10% they are waiting for). It is clear that the SAO has no control over those results. JMO....

 

[marspiter]

So to answer the question why would the car still smell after all this time? Carpet, carpet liner, sound deadening material, speaker cones, Interior cloth such as seats, interior seat padding, plastic materials, ect ect. Pretty much anything that isn't metal is going to absorb that smell. That and perhaps the car wasn't washed as well as Cindy had hoped.

 

[LambChop]

It is hard to do a witness list when you don't know who you're going to try an pin the crime on.

 

[LambChop]

So to answer the question why would the car still smell after all this time? Carpet, carpet liner, sound deadening material, speaker cones, Interior cloth such as seats, interior seat padding, plastic materials, ect ect. Pretty much anything that isn't metal is going to absorb that smell. That and perhaps the car wasn't washed as well as Cindy had hoped.

That reminds me. In the FBI tape (I think, or LE) George is telling them about the stain in the trunk being the size of a basketball and holds up his two hands to actually show us on the video the size of the stain. When LE sees the stain and photographs it, it is not quite so visible. So could it be LE was not concerned about the smell because CA had cleaned the trunk and tried to disguise the smell? It might have worked for a couple of hours but that smell will always be there. JMO

 

[Tulessa]

When George Anthony states that it smells like human decomp, you can bet that's what it was. He was a Homicide detective after all.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I just felt it might be risky since the original Police officers didn't secure the car right away. That the smell may not be as bad as everyone thinks. It seems to me if it really smelled like human decomp, the police would have sealed it off as a crime scene right away. 2 years out, it can't possibly be as strong. Yuri fell short of calling it human decomp as well in the bond hearing. These things indicate to me that there was a smell there but the smell was not that strong or it didn't smell like human decomp. That is why I feel it would be a mistake for Sa. If it doesn't smell strong or unbearable, it may have the opposite effect on the jury. That is just my opinion.

I thought it might be helpful to have experience in the smell. To not have smelled it before, you have nothing to compare it to. You could only determine that it was awful. Sa is certainly welcome to take the jury to the car and open up the trunk and let them smell it. The defense may be all for it. They certainly took HL in there and were not worried about it. Moo

When you smell decomposed human flesh it is immediately recognizable as such, you do not need to be experienced, you don't need to compare it to any other smell and you certainly don't need an expert to explain what it is.
It is a characteristic odor and it gets into your nose, mouth, hair and skin and you have a very hard time getting rid of it if you just inhale it, even if you dont touch it.
A car that is closed up will contain that same pungent smell for as long as people want to smell it.

 

[logicalgirl]

Thanks ZsaZsa for that - I actually meant to reply to NTS re the comment of not securing the car immediately. If the towyard guy can testify that it smelled the same as his experience with human decomp, and George can testify to the odour, and Lee (and perhaps Casey) can testify to the smell, I somehow doubt the chain of evidence will be a problem at the trial, even if Cindy did scrub her little heart out before it was sealed.

 

[notthatsmart]

Well I thought it might be a bad idea for the Sa to take that chance, but I certainly think the defense should welcome the jury to look at the car if Sa introduces it into evidence. There should be nothing to hide from either side. Go ahead, get in there and smell it. Lets get this all out on the table.

Do experts have to check in once in awhile? I don't see where Hl services are needed until trial. Certainly after Hl examined the car, he went out on NG and said it smelled like rotten garbage. He may have also come back for a so called photo op at the dump site. I think he is still there. Just nothing to examine at this point. Moo

Didn't Dr Haskell say it still smelled like decomp? leaving out the word human? I am off to read the report again. Moo

 

[JBean]

I just felt it might be risky since the original Police officers didn't secure the car right away. That the smell may not be as bad as everyone thinks. It seems to me if it really smelled like human decomp, the police would have sealed it off as a crime scene right away. 2 years out, it can't possibly be as strong. Yuri fell short of calling it human decomp as well in the bond hearing. These things indicate to me that there was a smell there but the smell was not that strong or it didn't smell like human decomp. That is why I feel it would be a mistake for Sa. If it doesn't smell strong or unbearable, it may have the opposite effect on the jury. That is just my opinion.

I thought it might be helpful to have experience in the smell. To not have smelled it before, you have nothing to compare it to. You could only determine that it was awful. Sa is certainly welcome to take the jury to the car and open up the trunk and let them smell it. The defense may be all for it. They certainly took HL in there and were not worried about it. Moo

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92537&highlight=pontiac

 

[Tulessa]

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92537&highlight=pontiac

What would we do without you! :blowkiss:

 

[The World According]

bumping up

 

[Eidetic]

That reminds me. In the FBI tape (I think, or LE) George is telling them about the stain in the trunk being the size of a basketball and holds up his two hands to actually show us on the video the size of the stain. When LE sees the stain and photographs it, it is not quite so visible. So could it be LE was not concerned about the smell because CA had cleaned the trunk and tried to disguise the smell? It might have worked for a couple of hours but that smell will always be there. JMO

I have great faith this picture could help prove the stain was worse before LE got the car, if in fact the stain had somehow become less visible.
That is a sticky, suspicious stain on the outside of a trash bag that Casey removed from AL apartment and placed in the trunk of family car containing decomposition, she solely drove. I would say, that stain on the outside of the bag with the pizza box in it is what, "basketball size"?

 

[LambChop]

I have great faith this picture could help prove the stain was worse before LE got the car, if in fact the stain had somehow become less visible.
That is a sticky, suspicious stain on the outside of a trash bag that Casey removed from AL apartment and placed in the trunk of family car containing decomposition, she solely drove. I would say, that stain on the outside of the bag with the pizza box in it is what, "basketball size"?

You look at the bag and with GA's description and then look at the pictures taken by LE of the trunk liner and from the FBI report, you can hardly see the stain. So clearly someone tried to clean up that stain. Suzie Homemaker perhaps?? JMO

 

[suepitzl]

You look at the bag and with GA's description and then look at the pictures taken by LE of the trunk liner and from the FBI report, you can hardly see the stain. So clearly someone tried to clean up that stain. Suzie Homemaker
IMO, the rust color on the bag is from the bottom of the dumpster.

 

[LambChop]

You look at the bag and with GA's description and then look at the pictures taken by LE of the trunk liner and from the FBI report, you can hardly see the stain. So clearly someone tried to clean up that stain. Suzie Homemaker
IMO, the rust color on the bag is from the bottom of the dumpster.

The bag was not on the bottom of the dumpster it was on top. The dumpster was full of office type materials, papers, files, trash you find from an office not garbage. It is in SB's deposition.

 

[Harmony 2]

The bag was not on the bottom of the dumpster it was on top. The dumpster was full of office type materials, papers, files, trash you find from an office not garbage. It is in SB's deposition.

Good morning Lambchop!!

I thought that photo of the white trash bag in the dumpster was an evidence photo depicting the setting the night it was retrieved.

ETA: I am confused now....

Here is SB's transcript:

the trash bag in the dumpster- page 17 and on

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1642040/Burch-Simon---Statement