2009.11.19 Defense files motion suggesting Kronk as the killer. #3

[Rlaub44]

It's quite simple. The defense considers Kronk to be an equally likely suspect. In essense, Baez's motion asks Judge Strickland to rule on their intended defense.

If Judge Strickland rules in favor of the defense, Kronk will be deconstructed inside the courtroom. If Judge Strickland rules that Casey's attorneys cannot give her the best possible defense, he will have handed her an incredibly strong appeal issue.

Look for Judge Strickland to give the defense enough to proceed as intended.

Thanks for the analysis. The portion I bolded above may be one of the strangest things I have read in a case filled with the bizarre.

So the defense is suggesting it is about 50/50 between KC and Kronk. Because Kronk had a feeling about where the body could have been, reported it, and eventually found the remains, he is equally likely a suspect as the mother who had care, custody and control of the victim. The mother who has the scent of decomposition in her trunk. The mother who abandoned said vehicle. The mother who partied for 31 days while her daughter was gone. The mother who lived in the home where the blanket and laundry bag were from. The mother whose family had the rare duct tape that was found on Caylee, the gas cans, and the "missing" posters. The mother that made up a nanny, and a story about the nanny having kept, no wait, kidnapped her daughter. The mother who researched chloroform, only to have high levels of it found in the trunk where her daughter had lain. The mother that wasn't concerned in the least when "bones" were found near the site of the alleged kidnapping, but that needed medical attention when bones were found in a wooded area near her home. The mother that wanted "just one more day" when she was finally located 31 days later. The mother that was upset when all anyone cared about was Caylee. The mother that couldn't tell LE the truth when it could have helped them find her missing daughter.

I don't quite see the likelihood quite as high as 50/50. I can understand that the defense has to say that, but you'll forgive me if I don't buy it. Fortunately for them, Judge Strickland doesn't have to find the percentage equally split to allow the "Kronk theory" to be introduced at trial. I will wait to see how the jury views the theory.

 

[Jolynna]

He told his co-workers he saw a skull on Aug 11 (it's in my signature). On Dec 11, he told LE he saw a skull back on Aug 11th. I forget when he was on GMA, maybe January.



Correct, and that pisses me off. He told his buddies it was a skull, but wouldn't use that word with the 911 operator. Later (dec/jan) he would tell the cops that he was 99.999% sure it was a skull back in August.

RK says he told Cain about the skull and that Cain, the "expert" told him it wasn't possible for Caylee to be a skeleton. Cain, the guy with the badge, put himself out there as a decomposition expert. (Never mind that he was wrong.)

RK, doesn't strike me as a person who has been right about very much...lots of jobs...multiple relationships...strained family relationships...

Talking about his "find" to co-workers, to hear their opinions, wouldn't be hard for somebody who probably doesn't get a lot of attention. Being pushy with LE? I get why RK would want check to be sure he was right first.

imo

 

[okiedokietoo]

When was he married to the woman who has cancer and claims that he had used duck tape to keep her from leaving? Do we know? I'm real curious to see how the facts line up.

First wife - had Brandon - long time ago. Kronk did not keep up with his relationship with his son.

Recent wife? When? Anybody know? The Lawyer should know better than to state "wife" when it was a "girlfriend". Kronk would have no financial obligations for his girlfriend's medical bills.

I'm curious about the truth here. Do we know how many wives he's had? There was a young woman who was interviewed and while crying she said the doctor had told her that if her mother had gotten to the hospital sooner that her mother may have lived. She was extremely dehydrated and apparently Kronk was the one overseeing the woman. The girl also said that her mom had told her that she would be yelling for assistance and that Kronk would not come to help her for long periods of time as he had headphones on and was in his own little world even though he knew he lived with a sick woman who would be in need of assistance. He was living in HER house. Is this the woman who died in 2007? What was that about?

The girl also stated that Kronk had a weird sense of boundaries as he would come into the bathroom to pee while she was already in there taking a bath.

(bolded by me)
I'm curious about the truth here too. I have an elderly relative that has Alzheimer's disease.
http://www.healthinaging.org/agingintheknow/chapters_ch_trial.asp?ch=59
These include wandering, aggressive behaviors, visual hallucinations, and delusions. The delusions often involve being unreasonably suspicious of other people, including caregivers, or being concerned that others are stealing personal possessions.

And when she gets a urinary tract infection she has hallucinations. Which usually means she thinks that everyone is trying to kill her. She will go 3 days without sleep, staying awake so no one can sneak up on her. She was in an Assisted Living Facility and she had a UTI and was dehydrated. She had the infection for a few days before the excellent and very attentive nursing staff realized what was wrong with her. She went to the hospital for a few days and she is fine...until the next UTI.
My point is that we don't know the whole truth.

 

[Hot Dogs]

It's a damn shame what happened with Cain. He was unprofessional and he pissed Roy off. But Roy was 99.999% sure that he was seeing a small skull. He could have called 911 (or even the non-emergency number) again.

"Hi. I met with an officer Cain yesterday and he was rude and brushed me off. I'd like you to send a different officer or detective because I am 99.999% sure that there is a little skull here in the woods near Caylee's house. I can get within 4-6' of it and I'm telling you it is a skull. I'll meet this other person you send, and I'll point right to the skull for them."

No. Caylee would wait on Roy.

 

[Dear Prudence]

It's a damn shame what happened with Cain. He was unprofessional and he pissed Roy off. But Roy was 99.999% sure that he was seeing a small skull. He could have called 911 (or even the non-emergency number) again.

"Hi. I met with an officer Cain yesterday and he was rude and brushed me off. I'd like you to send a different officer or detective because I am 99.999% sure that there is a little skull here in the woods near Caylee's house. I can get within 4-6' of it and I'm telling you it is a skull. I'll meet this other person you send, and I'll point right to the skull for them."

No. Caylee would wait on Roy.

Lots of people are kind of intimidated by police officers so if they tell you to quit bothering them, that you're wasting their time, you tend to quit bothering them. I don't know if Roy felt intimidated or not but he could have.

Oh, and Caylee is still waiting on her mother.

 

[cecybeans]

Lots of people are kind of intimidated by police officers so if they tell you to quit bothering them, that you're wasting their time, you tend to quit bothering them. I don't know if Roy felt intimidated or not but he could have.

Oh, and Caylee is still waiting on her mother.

I agree. Even if RK got typed instructions about where to look, let's remember why somebody else had to find her to begin with.

I'm tired of shooting the messenger.

 

[Jolynna]

It's a damn shame what happened with Cain. He was unprofessional and he pissed Roy off. But Roy was 99.999% sure that he was seeing a small skull. He could have called 911 (or even the non-emergency number) again.

"Hi. I met with an officer Cain yesterday and he was rude and brushed me off. I'd like you to send a different officer or detective because I am 99.999% sure that there is a little skull here in the woods near Caylee's house. I can get within 4-6' of it and I'm telling you it is a skull. I'll meet this other person you send, and I'll point right to the skull for them."

No. Caylee would wait on Roy.

You are confident, RK sees tigers lurking around every corner to put him down and make him feel bad. He's stuck himself out before, jobs, marriages, with his family...it didn't go so well. He got his courage up, called LE and Cain let him know that it was impossible for Caylee to have skeletonized. Once again he was a loser who didn't know what he was talking about.

RK isn't a professional witness, nor a professional body finder.

 

[mysteriew]

How did Kronk know to look where he looked? It's a statistical fact that when a mother kills and dumps her child, it will usually be found within a mile of the family home. That isn't everytime of course, but more likely. If Kronk knew that fact, if he was familiar with the neighborhood or drove around in the neighborhood then he may have decided that that was the most likely spot within the one around the home.

If JB wants to find another innocent person who has acted suspiciously around the crime area, then he is missing one. There was someone who looked in only two spots around the home. He had his "search" filmed, and knew exactly what spots to avoid to ensure not to get Caylee's remains on camera. And as soon as he filmed within feet of the remains site, he quit the "search." Like he knew exactly where the remains were going to be and what to avoid in the area. Of course he had allegedly been given directions to the site. So whoever gave him the directions could be a suspect. Why is defense not declaring them a suspect? Maybe they can't, because their client is the one who gave the directions? It has been said that the psychic was the one who sent the PI there. But if she was the one who sent them there, she would be the number one suspect!

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Her family and real friends all said they didn't recognize this person in the jailhouse phone calls at all, that she would never let anything happen to Caylee or just go around not knowing where Caylee was and not do anything about it. They all said her personality when she was arrested appeared to be radically changed. Although they had known her to tell what they thought were white lies in the past, always about harmless things. They all said she loved Caylee and would never let harm come to her.

No, "they" didn't all say this. One of her bosom buddies (I believe he called himself the Italian Stallion) received communication from Casey where she referred to Caylee as a "snot nosed" something. I think Casey only appeared to be a loving mother when she knew that anything less (in front of most of her friends) would be unacceptable.

 

[flourish]

Lots of people are kind of intimidated by police officers so if they tell you to quit bothering them, that you're wasting their time, you tend to quit bothering them. I don't know if Roy felt intimidated or not but he could have.

Oh, and Caylee is still waiting on her mother.

Seriously!
My friend was recently arrested and spent two nights in jail for "interfering with a police officer," for essentially "bothering" him (obviously long story no one here really needs to hear...just suffice it to say that cops don't like to be interrupted when busy yelling at hippies).

My point? I am a law-abiding citizen whose few interactions with police officers have been positive ones. Even so, they scare the carp out of me! If I call for police assistance, and they arrive and are appraised of the situation, it would never occur to me question their assessment. Would I still call again later or on another day if I felt the need? Indeed.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

It's a damn shame what happened with Cain. He was unprofessional and he pissed Roy off. But Roy was 99.999% sure that he was seeing a small skull. He could have called 911 (or even the non-emergency number) again.

"Hi. I met with an officer Cain yesterday and he was rude and brushed me off. I'd like you to send a different officer or detective because I am 99.999% sure that there is a little skull here in the woods near Caylee's house. I can get within 4-6' of it and I'm telling you it is a skull. I'll meet this other person you send, and I'll point right to the skull for them."

No. Caylee would wait on Roy.

Oh Hot Dogs, how I wish you had found her. But Roy is what he is; no more and no less. And he's what we have. I think malevolent motives are being read into his inadequacies and the defense team is making the most of it.

It just hurts my heart that, no matter how poor of a job he did in his discovery of her, it is obviously bringing him nothing but criticism. Because of what has transpired with him and now the way JB and team are focusing on the searchers, I am positive that I would never, never call in the sighting of a body and never, never participate in another search. And I will advise everyone I know not to do the same.

When things that are meant for good turn into fodder for attack on innocent people ~ the people will withdraw. . . and have already begun.

 

[Leila]

Found it. This is how it is explained in the Diane Fanning book, which she states is taken from documents from the case...

Chapter 40

"That day (August 11) county meter reader David Dean helped new employee Roy Kronk with his route on Hopespring and Suburban. They stopped in a shady area by the swamp on Surburban to take a break. David thought about the close proximity to the Anthony home and said, "You know, Roy, I think that little girl is in the swamp back there."
Roy agreed it was possible, and they talked about Casey's remark to her parents that Caylee was nearby. Roy got out of the truck and went into the woods a little ways to relieve himself. When he returned to the truck, another meter reader, Chris Gibson, was with David. Roy said, "Hey, guys, I saw a bag down there."

Chapter 47 - The Discovery (December 11)

"Roy spots black plastic bag with a round, dome-like protrusion."

"He called his route supervisor Alex Roberts. "I just found a skull. I need the police." He described the location.

"David Dean heard the exchange and remembered the spot where they'd found the large rattler. He pushed in the button and said, "I told you she was in there." Roy replied, "No, I told you." Belatedly, David realized it was stupid to say something like that over an open radio channel, and he did not respond.

You know, this does sound entirely plausible. How many times in life have we speculated on some thing, saying things like........"I bet you anything", or "mark my words.......I bet", only to be followed up with........"see, I told you so!"

 

[LinasK]

It's true in any criminal trial. The defense can't simply offer up anything they wish as a defense -- such as a 'twinkie' defense (chuckle).

But the Twinkie defense was a real defense in the Dan White case, as I'm sure you're familiar with...

 

[Leila]

How did Kronk know to look where he looked? It's a statistical fact that when a mother kills and dumps her child, it will usually be found within a mile of the family home. That isn't everytime of course, but more likely. If Kronk knew that fact, if he was familiar with the neighborhood or drove around in the neighborhood then he may have decided that that was the most likely spot within the one around the home.

If JB wants to find another innocent person who has acted suspiciously around the crime area, then he is missing one. There was someone who looked in only two spots around the home. He had his "search" filmed, and knew exactly what spots to avoid to ensure not to get Caylee's remains on camera. And as soon as he filmed within feet of the remains site, he quit the "search." Like he knew exactly where the remains were going to be and what to avoid in the area. Of course he had allegedly been given directions to the site. So whoever gave him the directions could be a suspect. Why is defense not declaring them a suspect? Maybe they can't, because their client is the one who gave the directions? It has been said that the psychic was the one who sent the PI there. But if she was the one who sent them there, she would be the number one suspect!

I couldn't agree more! And that search of the area where Caylee's remains were eventually found took place well before RK found Caylee's remains. If RK is a suspect.................how did the Anthony family know where to send their private investigator to search..........a month before the remains were found?

IMO..............the Anthonys had the information on the general location of Caylee's remains. They obtained that information either directly or indirectly from Casey. They told the PI where to search. They were on a quest to find the remains before anyone else did.

Meanwhile, RK, interested in the case because it was in the local news every day, speculated that the most likely place would somewhere near the Anthony home. He knew that there was a large wooded area behind the homes on Hopespring. He figured that was the place to look, and kept his eye out for anything that looked unusual or out of place.

Prior to Caylee's remains being found, Tim Miller organized two major search efforts, one in September and one in November. We had members here at WS who live in the area volunteer for the searches. I remember asking several times if the woods behind the Anthony home had been searched. Others here agreed that the woods behind the Anthony home needed to be searched. So, I don't think it was unusual for RK to zero in on the same area.

 

[Eidetic]

If RK is a suspect.................how did the Anthony family know where to send their private investigator to search..........a month before the remains were found?

IMO..............the Anthonys had the information on the general location of Caylee's remains. They obtained that information either directly or indirectly from Casey. They told the PI where to search. They were on a quest to find the remains before anyone else did.

Puzzle pieces.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jfyP2VuLd0"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]

In August, Keith Williams found a bag of clothes and a child's sandal as well as balloons and stuffed animals. He gathered the items (found across the street on Suburban from where the remains were later discovered) took them to Cindy Anthony's front door and allowed her to dig through them.
He told CA where he had found them, she vehemently denied any familiarity to the items or that they had in fact belonged to Caylee.

She shifted the topic to a "Caylee sighting" she claimed they had gotten a tip on. KW went back to the scene, called LE, was dismissed by Deputy Cain, Cain threw the things back into the woods.

 

[mitzi]

With cases like these that end in the murder of a wife or child the killer is always exposed for who they really are. Casey is a liar that is a fact - you can hear her lying on any one of those LE tapes, it is NOT shocking that she lied to her friends and family. White lies?? Lying to your entire circle of friends and family about having a full time job and a nanny for two years is a huge scary lie. That one lie is frightening. Casey's lies were falling a part - her mother was pushing her to be independent - her new man liked the Event Planner with money, who was attending classes at Valencia and had a nanny which gave them their alone time. How long could she go on stealing from friends in order to buy groceries and entertain her man?

It was time to make a move - and she chose to kill her daughter rather than be exposed for the evil, lying, cheating, fake insecure nut job she really was.

The motive for this murder is monumental and in your face.

ITA with your motive...in addition there was a secondary motive...To hurt Cindy with the one thing that KC knew would hurt the most. Get rid of Caylee.

 

[mitzi]

Legal Analyst Bill Sheaffer on Casey Anthony Case
Witness for the Prosecution or Fall Guy for the Defense?
by billsheaffer on November 24, 2009
<snipped>
Ms. Lyon’s approach, which has been adopted by Baez, Baden and company disregards any consideration other than win at ANY cost, regardless of the truth, or consequence to justice, the fair trial process or any innocent party ground under their boots.

Article:
http://billsheaffer.wordpress.com/2...-the-prosecution-or-fall-guy-for-the-defense/
_______________________________________________________________________________________
I THINK I'M IN LOVE!!!!!:blushing:

Well, ya gotta share him...he's mine on Saturdays. :blushing:

 

[Sammiejam]

I couldn't agree more! And that search of the area where Caylee's remains were eventually found took place well before RK found Caylee's remains. If RK is a suspect.................how did the Anthony family know where to send their private investigator to search..........a month before the remains were found?

IMO..............the Anthonys had the information on the general location of Caylee's remains. They obtained that information either directly or indirectly from Casey. They told the PI where to search. They were on a quest to find the remains before anyone else did.

Meanwhile, RK, interested in the case because it was in the local news every day, speculated that the most likely place would somewhere near the Anthony home. He knew that there was a large wooded area behind the homes on Hopespring. He figured that was the place to look, and kept his eye out for anything that looked unusual or out of place.

Prior to Caylee's remains being found, Tim Miller organized two major search efforts, one in September and one in November. We had members here at WS who live in the area volunteer for the searches. I remember asking several times if the woods behind the Anthony home had been searched. Others here agreed that the woods behind the Anthony home needed to be searched. So, I don't think it was unusual for RK to zero in on the same area.

Ita - and as I also said in the first thread, KioM.T also made a statement to police AND told the A neighbours that the perp would put Caylee at Suburban Drive where she buried pets!

Many many people knew Suburban could be the dump site, it was a well known fact. RoyK just happened to be the only person to actually have a damn good look there. His job took him there and the media had already reported the info about the KioM and the pet cemetary! Of course he was going to scope it out a few times. Anyone who had found her would be undergoing this character asassination. They are even going after people who DIDNT find her and volunteered their time! Its utterly ridiculous imho of course.:furious:

 

[Kentjbkent]

He told his co-workers he saw a skull on Aug 11 (it's in my signature). On Dec 11, he told LE he saw a skull back on Aug 11th. I forget when he was on GMA, maybe January.


Correct, and that pisses me off. He told his buddies it was a skull, but wouldn't use that word with the 911 operator. Later (dec/jan) he would tell the cops that he was 99.999% sure it was a skull back in August.

Could you please provide a link for the source you are quoting that RK "told his co-workers he saw a SKULL on Aug 11th (source link for your direct quote of RK)?

I still cannot find any documentation of his claims to seeing an actual skull on Aug 11th. Am I missing doc dump records of interviews with RK co-workers?

As a refresher, he is the link to 911 call of August 11th:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3715618/CASEY_ANTHONY_KRONK-CALLS-UNEDITED_JANUARY_21_09

RK appeared on GMA on January 13, 2009 (after discovery in Dec) and on THAT date, stated that he NOW (1/13/09) believes that the "white object" he believes he saw on August 11th was a skull, based on the discovery of a skull at the same location in December.

 

[Wudge]

But the Twinkie defense was a real defense in the Dan White case, as I'm sure you're familiar with...

My original point was that prior to the trial, the judge had to approve the defense's claim that Dan White's capacity for rational thought had become diminished.

The truth is that White's attorney claimed 'diminished capacity' based on the fact that he had become a junk food devotee. What actually put a lot of sugar in his syetem was Coca Cola, not twinkies. The media created and used the term: twinkie defense. Twinkies were never mentioned at trial.

As a potential harbinger of things to come, the key thing to remember is that the jury agreed with the defense. They found Dan White guilty of only manslaughter, not premeditated murder.

FWIW