2010.03.19 Indigent Status Granted

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The financial management or mismanagement of the money already spent by the team would be an issue that the Florida Bar would investigate if deemed necessary. Sadly, there are many attorneys that do not budget or spend appropriately. The JAC is on alert from here forward and must review and approve all expenses going to "costs".

What has been spent thus far is not their concern. THey inquired about future deals or money anticipated to protect the State from paying for costs when there would be funds available for them. JS needed to see documentation PROVING there was no money left. What JB did with it will be considered as a separate matter if a complaint if filed to the appropriate parties.

Thank you Sleutherontheside! I've been asking myself and the thread that very question you've answered.
What wasn't logical to me was the difference between approving the fact Casey really doesn't - now - currently - have any money and is broke.
To me that's what JS was approving.
Why doesn't seem to be what he was looking at.

IMO JS also agreed JB provided accounting for where the money went.

However IMO, I see nothing there saying JS approved of how the money was spent. And I'm not certain he has the capacity to do other than red flag his disapproval, and recommend a Bar investigation. I don't think we have any way of knowing if that has or will happen.
 
Florida Rules of Professional Conduct
..... Rule 4-1.8 Conflict of Interest: Prohibited and Other Transactions ...
www.law.cornell.edu/ethics/fl/code/FL_CODE.HTM - Cached - Similar


Rule 4-1.8 Conflict of Interest: Prohibited and Other Transactions
(e) Financial Assistance to Client.

A lawyer shall not provide financial assistance to a client in connection with pending or contemplated litigation, except that:

(1) a lawyer may advance court costs and expenses of litigation, the repayment of which may be contingent on the outcome of the matter; and

(2) a lawyer representing an indigent client may pay court costs and expenses of litigation on behalf of the client.
__________________
 
[/B]
Bold by me:

Yeah but it would be a heck of a lot cheaper for the tax payer. You see, the way it stands, everyone will have to be deposed. That is expensive.

Doesn't "Everyone" have to be deposed if they were asking for LWOP?
 
Doesn't "Everyone" have to be deposed if they were asking for LWOP?

Glad you brought that up, logicalgirl! That was the exact question that came to mind for me, but sometimes I just get tired of going in circles.

I don't believe any additional people need to be deposed in a DP case than would be deposed in a non DP case.

Hopefully, someone with some legal expertise can clarify that for both of us, though. :)
 
[/B]
Bold by me:

Yeah but it would be a heck of a lot cheaper for the tax payer. You see, the way it stands, everyone will have to be deposed. That is expensive.

I will chip in with a donation if it will help Florida convict this child killer.
 
Glad you brought that up, logicalgirl! That was the exact question that came to mind for me, but sometimes I just get tired of going in circles.

I don't believe any additional people need to be deposed in a DP case than would be deposed in a non DP case.

Hopefully, someone with some legal expertise can clarify that for both of us, though. :)

The defense could, by probably would not bother to dispose of every witness in a non-death penalty murder case. The cost of the typical public defended non-death penalty capital murder case in the county where I live in Ga is very low in comparison, less then 30,000 and I assume the same on FL.

If the death penalty was not on the table, JB would have been the only attorney who would have bothered to stick around, CA would have been tried and convicted and serving LWOP and justice would have been served.

Now I am starting, for the first time to have fears she might get off. And I am afraid that now shoe has been declared indigent it will cost much, much more.
I live in GA where are public defense fund has been insolvent for 2 years over the Brian Nichols trail. He was a rapist who overwhelmed a guard on the way to the courtroom got her gun and shot and killed the judge and the court reporter and 2 others. There was no question of guilt, and he offered to plead guilty to avoid a death penalty trail.

According to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution: “Recently, the defense costs were revealed to be more than $3 million, with the state paying $2.3 million, and Fulton County paying about $625,000. The costs of the prosecution and other trial-related expenses have not been revealed.”

He was guilty as sin and the most hated man in Georgia, but still the defense was able to create enough of a sob story that he only received life.
 
Sure do wish someone would have brought up that $14,000 KC has in the bank, too. Oops, wait-I think that might have been a lie.
 
[/B]
Bold by me:

Yeah but it would be a heck of a lot cheaper for the tax payer. You see, the way it stands, everyone will have to be deposed. That is expensive.

Not necessarily, the cost to keep Casey in jail for LWOP as a young adult probably well into an advanced age, the argument could be made that that would be FAR more expensive, especially if there were major medical costs as she advances into old age. I would say it is about 1/2 dozen to one and 6 to the other.
 
Yeah but it would be a heck of a lot cheaper for the tax payer. You see, the way it stands, everyone will have to be deposed. That is expensive.

Wrong again. When you posted that everyone would have to be deposed now that the DP was back on the table I asked this question on the attorney board.

The answer I received was that there would not have to be any more depositions taken during a DP case than any other case.

Have a nice day.
 
Not necessarily, the cost to keep Casey in jail for LWOP as a young adult probably well into an advanced age, the argument could be made that that would be FAR more expensive, especially if there were major medical costs as she advances into old age. I would say it is about 1/2 dozen to one and 6 to the other.

That is not true - I did a quick search 'death cost penalty Florida' and this poped up first thing.

By S.V. Date: Palm Beach Post Capital Bureau
Palm Beach Post, A SECTION, Pg. 1A
January 4, 2000

What price for vengeance on society's worst killers?

In Florida, try $ 51 million a year.

That, according to a Palm Beach Post estimate, is how much Florida spends each year to enforce the death penalty - above and beyond what it would cost to punish all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole.

And at the rate at which Florida is executing its killers (there have been only 44 since executions resumed in 1979), it's costing about $ 24 million per electrocuted murderer. "That is an astounding figure," said Mike McCarron, executive director of the Florida Catholic Conference and, on behalf of the church, a perennial death penalty opponent.
"It's costing the state of Florida a small fortune," said Elliott Metcalfe, president of the Florida Public Defenders Association and the public defender in Sarasota and Manatee counties.

"It is much cheaper to put these people in prison and leave them there until they die. Simple as that."

According to The Post's estimate, it is about $ 23 million cheaper, even for an inmate who is imprisoned in his 20s and dies in his 70s.

The Post's figure was derived using estimates of how much time prosecutors and public defenders at the trial courts and the Florida Supreme Court, which devotes approximately half its time to death penalty cases, spend on the extra work needed in capital cases. It accounts also for the time and effort expended on defendants who are tried but convicted of a lesser murder charge and whose death sentences are overturned on appeal as well as those handful of condemned inmates who are actually executed.

And while the actual cost of prosecuting, convicting and executing an individual killer in Florida has been estimated at about $ 3.2 million, some lawmakers contend the death penalty is worth whatever it takes.By S.V.
 
Florida Rules of Professional Conduct
..... Rule 4-1.8 Conflict of Interest: Prohibited and Other Transactions ...
www.law.cornell.edu/ethics/fl/code/FL_CODE.HTM - Cached - Similar


Rule 4-1.8 Conflict of Interest: Prohibited and Other Transactions
(e) Financial Assistance to Client.

A lawyer shall not provide financial assistance to a client in connection with pending or contemplated litigation, except that:

(1) a lawyer may advance court costs and expenses of litigation, the repayment of which may be contingent on the outcome of the matter; and

(2) a lawyer representing an indigent client may pay court costs and expenses of litigation on behalf of the client.

Seems ambiguous to me. I thought an attorney cannot take a DP case on a contigent basis?

I wonder if JS questioned Baez on TMac's donation? Seems he did violate the law, unless Inmate Anthony gave a promissory note to repay??? Doubtful!

Baez gave his detailed accounting of monies spent. I wonder if the defense may be holding back any "future" sales of Caylee's photos/vid's. How can he be sure they don't have that ace in the hole?? Unless, ABC took alot of flack for paying that much in the first place. Could be Inmate Anthony lost that ace in the hole, IDK!

When ABC paid for those photos/videos (anyone have the exact date), sometime in August the tests from Tennessee came back with that human decomp event in the trunk of the pontiac. On October 14, Inmate Anthony is indicted for the alleged murder of Caylee. Then on December 11, 2008, when remains were found, ABC paid for their three day stay at the Ritz, so by this time they must have been aware that a child was more than likely deceased but stuck by Caylee's grandparents. I can only believe they are sticking to them like glue for reactions, for dialogue, for I'm betting my bottom dollar, after Inmate Anthony's trial, the outcome of that trial, whether good or bad, there will be another interview to finish what ABC initiated! Remember, Oprah wanted the exclusive but got wind that ABC had it and dropped CA/GA like a hot potatoe, even as they state, they cancelled that interveiw..They were broadcast shopping and went with the highest bidder, JMHO...

Justice for Caylee!
 
That is not true - I did a quick search 'death cost penalty Florida' and this poped up first thing.

By S.V. Date: Palm Beach Post Capital Bureau
Palm Beach Post, A SECTION, Pg. 1A
January 4, 2000

What price for vengeance on society's worst killers?

In Florida, try $ 51 million a year.

That, according to a Palm Beach Post estimate, is how much Florida spends each year to enforce the death penalty - above and beyond what it would cost to punish all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole.

And at the rate at which Florida is executing its killers (there have been only 44 since executions resumed in 1979), it's costing about $ 24 million per electrocuted murderer. "That is an astounding figure," said Mike McCarron, executive director of the Florida Catholic Conference and, on behalf of the church, a perennial death penalty opponent.
"It's costing the state of Florida a small fortune," said Elliott Metcalfe, president of the Florida Public Defenders Association and the public defender in Sarasota and Manatee counties.

"It is much cheaper to put these people in prison and leave them there until they die. Simple as that."

According to The Post's estimate, it is about $ 23 million cheaper, even for an inmate who is imprisoned in his 20s and dies in his 70s.

The Post's figure was derived using estimates of how much time prosecutors and public defenders at the trial courts and the Florida Supreme Court, which devotes approximately half its time to death penalty cases, spend on the extra work needed in capital cases. It accounts also for the time and effort expended on defendants who are tried but convicted of a lesser murder charge and whose death sentences are overturned on appeal as well as those handful of condemned inmates who are actually executed.

And while the actual cost of prosecuting, convicting and executing an individual killer in Florida has been estimated at about $ 3.2 million, some lawmakers contend the death penalty is worth whatever it takes.By S.V.

There is also the flip side to that argument as well. http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/03/cost-savings-and-the-death-penalty/

"It has been claimed that it costs $3.2 million/execution in Florida. That “study” decided to add the cost of the entire death penalty system in Florida ($57 million), which included all of the death penalty cases and dividing that number by only the number of executions (18). It is the same as stating that the cost of LWOP is $15 million/case, based upon all costs of 2000 LWOP cases being placed into the 40 lifers to have died (given an average cost of $300, 000/LWOP case, so far, for those 2000 cases.)"


The article also mentions that there are costs that are left out or not figured properly when comparing the two sentences. The main problem is it is very hard to find articles that compare all aspects of the two sentences and do so in a non biased way.

So for the topic of this discussion I would agree that yes the Florida tax payers will pay a greater initial cost to have Casey tried as DP eligible. I however have not seen a truly unbiased article that compares all aspects of DP v. LWOP to determine which one ultimately costs more and by how much.
 
What sickens me here is that there are so many defendants out there who may actually be innocent that cannot afford high powered attorneys. Where are the Lyons,Kenney-Badens, and Masons stepping up for these people ? Guess they aren't all pretty (sic) white twenty-somethings with their faces plastered on Nancy Grace...

Good morning DaneBramage...I would like to say I agree with every word in your post. I also have been wondering the same thing. Especially the part that is bolded. Just something to think about????
 
Wrong again. When you posted that everyone would have to be deposed now that the DP was back on the table I asked this question on the attorney board.

The answer I received was that there would not have to be any more depositions taken during a DP case than any other case.

Have a nice day.

And again, it is upon the state to meet the burden of proof, not the defendant. The defendant does not have to match the state depo for depo at all. It is a choice for them to conduct depositions.
 
And again, it is upon the state to meet the burden of proof, not the defendant. The defendant does not have to match the state depo for depo at all. It is a choice for them to conduct depositions.

Haven't both Baez and Lyons said that is actually part of their plan - to tear apart the experts evidence or testimony when the SA put them on the stand rather than bring in a large number of their own experts - just to discredit the prosecution's?
 
haven't both baez and lyons said that is actually part of their plan - to tear apart the experts evidence or testimony when the sa put them on the stand rather than bring in a large number of their own experts - just to discredit the prosecution's?

rofl!!!
 
What sickens me here is that there are so many defendants out there who may actually be innocent that cannot afford high powered attorneys. Where are the Lyons,Kenney-Badens, and Masons stepping up for these people ? Guess they aren't all pretty (sic) white twenty-somethings with their faces plastered on Nancy Grace...

I'm gonna try this again, cause I just posted a paper that was not from Andrea Lyons...sorry...but this one is:

http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1001&context=andrea_lyon

Ms. Lyon does not mind representing poor/minorities at all-she has used this as her defense (divide and conquer, IMO) and feels the imposition of the death penalty on black Americans is a civil rights issue.
Problem is, her theory is poo poo in the civilian/non-federal courts. Looks pretty evenly distributed, as of 2009

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/race-death-row-inmates-executed-1976
 
I'm gonna try this again, cause I just posted a paper that was not from Andrea Lyons...sorry...but this one is:

http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1001&context=andrea_lyon

Ms. Lyon does not mind representing minorities at all-she has used this as her defense (divide and conquer, IMO) and feels the imposition of the death penalty on black Americans is a civil rights issue.
Problem is, her theory is poo poo. Looks pretty evenly distributed, as of 2009

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/race-death-row-inmates-executed-1976

If you look at one particular statistic - I find it very troubling. I was shocked at the difference in numbers between white defendant/black victim and black defendant/white victim.

Sorry, this might be way O/T but it is a jaw dropper for me.
 
If you look at one particular statistic - I find it very troubling. I was shocked at the difference in numbers between white defendant/black victim and black defendant/white victim.

Sorry, this might be way O/T but it is a jaw dropper for me.

Yes-Now that statistic is where AL's argument can hold water. But as for who has made it to death row, looks like just about every race we have here. ETA-This might be where this is flawed...we don't know how many total defendants actually faced the DP but may not have received it. This article only addresses those that were convicted of the DP. Without that number, it is difficult to know the accuracy of the Attorney General's statement.

To bring it back to indigence, AL does not mind defending people of color pro-bono, as was eluded to earlier in this thread...KC does not merit a special argument from her, and it seems she would be as likely to defend an ugly, 50 year old latino, black person, Asian, or anyone else, as she would a pretty 20-something white girl, pro-bono.
 
09/21/2010 Motion
Justice Administrative Commissions Motion for Clarification of Indigent Status


http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/default.aspx

I can not locate the motion..but hopefully it will be posted soon..this JAC motion has my interest piqued..
What could it be
1)either Baez has failed to submit documents previously requested OR
2)The JAC is suspicious based on new information obtained


09/27/2010 Status Hearing (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer Perry, Belvin, JR)
10/29/2010 Status Hearing (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer Perry, Belvin, JR)
 
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