2010.04.13 Theories thread as a result of the search

[Pondering Mind]

I think the statement that Shoemaker made about Ron, Joe and the 911 tape is really getting blown out of proportion. If you go to the Shoemaker thread aNd watch the video you'll see that Shoemaker is telling the reporter of RCs thoughts on the past weeks revelations and he says that when he had spoke with ron about these things, that he felt that ron was not shocked at all by the outcome(of JO killing Haleigh) and then Shoemaker adds that as early as the night Haleigh went missing that JO was someone Ron had suspected and that he thought such a statement may have been caught on the 911 tape. NOT that Ron had said this staement into the phone to the dispatcher, but rather just as we heard the statement IN THE BACKGROUND of him blaming Misty&calling her a b##ch.
It seems to now have been blown into that Ron STATED this as fact to the dispatcher and that has then led to that Ron is saying that LE has redacted the 911 tapes, none of those last 2 statements were even implyed by Ron or Shoemaker.
I will add that news4jax is reporting that is a possibility that LE did possibly redact some of the 911 tape before releasing it to the media, and I feel that is possible as for a couple of very real reasons.

Maybe, but that's NOT what Ron's attorney said..at least the way First Coast News reported it anyway...

"He's not surprised," Shoemaker said, "and [Cummings] said if you go back and listen to the 911 tape he made a comment that night about "Cousin Joe."

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=154906&catid=3

Now I do think that maybe Ron TOLD his attorney that he said that...and that his attorney didn't check before making a statement...IDK though..

 

[jessigirl]

I had not heard of it ever being claimed that it was JO's gun. It was Misty that found it in the culvert and I do recall ppl saying that Ron hid it there and told Misty where to get it from the culvert, but I believe that was due to hearing staements taken out of context(because yes, I was under that impression also that it was odd for Ron to know where the gun ewas if he wasnt the onethat had hidden it, but i think once hearing those excerpts in the full context, that it is quite clear just who had stolen and hid the gun) Its in both audio and video several places, and this one is just the one I had looked at earlier that had to do with the culvert&the gun....heres the link and the video is about halfway down the page http://stephww.wordpress.com/

 

[jessigirl]

Just as I read earlier someone posted that we can all look at the same video, or listen to the same audio, or even read the exact same words from a page, yet we can have a complete opposite "take", interpretation of and opinions of what the video, audio, or text meant to each of us. And thats partly because of such strong feelings that each of us have developed and feel about "who dun it". I hope my posts dont come off as "Im Right and anyone who feels Any different from me is WRONG" because that is not my intention. And I'll admit Im far from the best at perfectly "wording" whats in my head, so I just want to reiterate its MOO and welcome all others who agree and disagree with mine.:heart:

 

[epiphany]

Maybe, but that's NOT what Ron's attorney said..at least the way First Coast News reported it anyway...

"He's not surprised," Shoemaker said, "and [Cummings] said if you go back and listen to the 911 tape he made a comment that night about "Cousin Joe."

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=154906&catid=3

Now I do think that maybe Ron TOLD his attorney that he said that...and that his attorney didn't check before making a statement...IDK though..

First Coast News suggests that the 911 tape may have been dedacted in this article below:

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=154906&catid=3

"First Coast News cannot make out where Cummings mentions "Cousin Joe" Overstreet. However, some of the 911 call may have been redacted."

 

[epiphany]

I'm guessing since that would be a misstatement, error, etc on the part of Shoemaker, First Coast News simply suggests a possible explanation since they do not hear that on the current 911 tape that has been made available.

 

[faefrost]

No, the author of the article suggests the released call might have been edited since they could not find the reference made by Ron's attorney on the 911 tape.

Unlikely. 911 calls are public records. The situations where they may be legally edited are very few and very specific. And when such edits are made the released record must state what edits where made, where and why. In most cases these edits are limited to specific types of personal information (such as addresses and phone numbers) or highly specific information involving children. Although in the case of children more often the entire call will simply be sealed and an edited sumary released to the public where required.

As I said, editing 911 calls is not something subject to speculation or debate. If it was done you know upfront it was done, where, and at least a basic of why. If you were not told it was edited, then an edited call was not released.

In this case if one of the participants attorneys is referencing something from a 911 call, that cannot in fact be found on the 911 tape, then the safe and by far most likely assumption is the attorney is either in error, and the comment was made via a diferent medium, such as police or media interview, or the attorney is simply spouting a line of bullplop to present his client in a way more favorable to him. In the case of cousin Joe and the 911 tapes, I'll give the lawyer the benefit of the doubt and assume that any such statements by RC were made to the early investigating officers instead of the 911 operator.

 

[kamky]

In light of this new information, there is only one theory that I can think of that makes everything fall into place, and it's the saddest thing I can imagine. It will be hard for normal people to comprehend. This had nothing to do at all with drugs, other than peripherally. The motivation behind this case was pure revenge by a sadistic person.

This poor beautiful young child did not deserve this and neither did her family, including her father. It explains almost all Ron's actions, including marrying Misty. It explains Misty's actions and Tommy's actions. It's clear why Misty and Tommy were scared and didn't tell anyone, including their spouses, families, or LE, what happened. The reason for the kidnapping staging at the MH now makes complete sense. Ron's lack of searching makes sense. Ratgate makes sense. God bless this poor man.

The case will depend on the forensics and evidence found in the river. It will also be critical for LE to interview extensively the family and acquaintences of the person who committed this crime. Now that the door has been opened, I think that LE, with the assistance of the FBI, will resolve the case fairly quickly. One other comment - Pat Brown needs to consider changing her target if she wants to sell her book.

I can't bring myself to be more detailed, but hope that the above makes sense! All this is IMO.

 

[faefrost]

for every story I've heard, I've heard a counter story, so I won't know whose gun it was, until LE tells us. But I find it strange, to say the least, that Ron would hide a gun in a culvert? Not even counting his kids, wasn't he worried that he'd steal something else?

Yeah! That kind of strikes me as off. Hiding a gun in a culvert is not something you do to prevent "Cousin Joe" from stealing it from your house. It is something you do to "dispose of a weapon". Put it somewhere that LE will be unlikely to find it, or if found tie it back to you.

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=154929&catid=3

Months ago, Cummings' mother said he may have done those crimes to get close to Misty after the divorce, in order to learn what happened to Haleigh.

This weekend, Cummings' attorney shed new light on the relationship.

"The police always said, 'If you divorce Misty, we'll find something out. She'll crack.' They've told him, 'If Misty got in trouble, in jail, we could probably get her to crack,'" Shoemaker said.

don't know where to put this but it seems Shoemaker is suggesting that, per TN, Ron may have purposefully gotten into trouble to get Misty into the jail. So as per a theory, the Cummings felt Misty had to get into jail to crack? IDK

If it doesn't belong here mods, please let me know where to put it...

 

[Emeralgem]

In light of this new information, there is only one theory that I can think of that makes everything fall into place, and it's the saddest thing I can imagine. It will be hard for normal people to comprehend. This had nothing to do at all with drugs, other than peripherally. The motivation behind this case was pure revenge by a sadistic person.

This poor beautiful young child did not deserve this and neither did her family, including her father. It explains almost all Ron's actions, including marrying Misty. It explains Misty's actions and Tommy's actions. It's clear why Misty and Tommy were scared and didn't tell anyone, including their spouses, families, or LE, what happened. The reason for the kidnapping staging at the MH now makes complete sense. Ron's lack of searching makes sense. Ratgate makes sense. God bless this poor man.

The case will depend on the forensics and evidence found in the river. It will also be critical for LE to interview extensively the family and acquaintences of the person who committed this crime. Now that the door has been opened, I think that LE, with the assistance of the FBI, will resolve the case fairly quickly. One other comment - Pat Brown needs to consider changing her target if she wants to sell her book.

I can't bring myself to be more detailed, but hope that the above makes sense! All this is IMO.

IMHO.. Since you can't bring yourself to be a little more detailed in reference to what you are attempting to convey, I'm sorry, but what you have typed doesn't make alot of sense to me.. JMO

 

[lonetraveler]

I know! Even considering who we are talking about here, WHO would do that?

I am the first to admit, I still do not understand about this gun or all the stories behind it. Unless HaLeigh was killed with it by accident, I believe it may have been just a bunch of bluster that was convenient to throw in for their storyline.

JMO, but I'd be willing to bet that this case is going to end up being a whole lot simpler than we have imagined all these months. I think that that they are intentionally making it convoluted.... Poor HaLeigh..

I'm ready for a bit of "simple" with this case.:croc:

 

[cj1132]

I agree with you Em, I'm just not getting it either.

 

[lonetraveler]

Yeah! That kind of strikes me as off. Hiding a gun in a culvert is not something you do to prevent "Cousin Joe" from stealing it from your house. It is something you do to "dispose of a weapon". Put it somewhere that LE will be unlikely to find it, or if found tie it back to you.

ITA with you. From what we know about Ron, he was reportedly armed and threatening to shoot CJones in the road rage incident. I think Ron most likely kept the gun with him and not in the MH unless he was there. If Ron did hide the gun in the culvert, then maybe it did happen on Ron's way either to work on that Monday evening or on his way home. Maybe Ron wanted LE to not find it after the 911 call.:waitasec:

 

[Emeralgem]

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=154929&catid=3

Months ago, Cummings' mother said he may have done those crimes to get close to Misty after the divorce, in order to learn what happened to Haleigh.

This weekend, Cummings' attorney shed new light on the relationship.

"The police always said, 'If you divorce Misty, we'll find something out. She'll crack.' They've told him, 'If Misty got in trouble, in jail, we could probably get her to crack,'" Shoemaker said.

don't know where to put this but it seems Shoemaker is suggesting that, per TN, Ron may have purposefully gotten into trouble to get Misty into the jail. So as per a theory, the Cummings felt Misty had to get into jail to crack? IDK




If it doesn't belong here mods, please let me know where to put it...

BUCKLE UP real tight...Put on your hard hat..JMO

 

[newstome]

In light of this new information, there is only one theory that I can think of that makes everything fall into place, and it's the saddest thing I can imagine. It will be hard for normal people to comprehend. This had nothing to do at all with drugs, other than peripherally. The motivation behind this case was pure revenge by a sadistic person.

This poor beautiful young child did not deserve this and neither did her family, including her father. It explains almost all Ron's actions, including marrying Misty. It explains Misty's actions and Tommy's actions. It's clear why Misty and Tommy were scared and didn't tell anyone, including their spouses, families, or LE, what happened. The reason for the kidnapping staging at the MH now makes complete sense. Ron's lack of searching makes sense. Ratgate makes sense. God bless this poor man.

The case will depend on the forensics and evidence found in the river. It will also be critical for LE to interview extensively the family and acquaintences of the person who committed this crime. Now that the door has been opened, I think that LE, with the assistance of the FBI, will resolve the case fairly quickly. One other comment - Pat Brown needs to consider changing her target if she wants to sell her book.

I can't bring myself to be more detailed, but hope that the above makes sense! All this is IMO.

Thank you, thank you.

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

BUCKLE UP real tight...Put on your hard hat..JMO

Boots, perhaps as well? My theory is that we are seeing a start of any possible defense strategy, *IF* his client were to be implicated for well even child endangerment or worse...JMO

 

[faefrost]

ITA with you. From what we know about Ron, he was reportedly armed and threatening to shoot CJones in the road rage incident. I think Ron most likely kept the gun with him and not in the MH unless he was there. If Ron did hide the gun in the culvert, then maybe it did happen on Ron's way either to work on that Monday evening or on his way home. Maybe Ron wanted LE to not find it after the 911 call.:waitasec:

I am actually quite sure thatthe gun was probably not involved directly with hayleigh. Rememeber LE has long said that they have found pretty much no evidence that the trailer was the scene of any crime. Evidence of a firearm discharge and in particular a firearm injury is almost impossible to completely erase. It would have been glaringly apparent if it happened at the home.

Rather I still suspect the whole thing went something like this. Misty did not want to babysit. She wanted to party. So she gave Hayleigh something to put her out. She may have been partying with the cousins or she may have been solo partying at that point. Only problem is Hayleigh does not wake up. At this point Ron and TC and possibly J get involved. Croslin cleanup crew is promptly instructed to get rid of the drugs, get rid of the guns and get rid of the body. The primary tool to evade LE is simply A. Say nothing and B. Lie.

The main fear that is driving all of them is not that some participant will kill them, but that given the manner of the childs death, and the materials and conditions in the actual home, any and all involved in any way would and will be going to jail for most of their natural lives. Accidental or not. Their only hope for avoiding jail time on at a minimum child endangerment charges, parole violations, drug and weapons charges, and anything and everything that LE can throw at them is the kidnapping story.

 

[Emeralgem]

I am actually quite sure thatthe gun was probably not involved directly with hayleigh. Rememeber LE has long said that they have found pretty much no evidence that the trailer was the scene of any crime. Evidence of a firearm discharge and in particular a firearm injury is almost impossible to completely erase. It would have been glaringly apparent if it happened at the home.
Rather I still suspect the whole thing went something like this. Misty did not want to babysit. She wanted to party. So she gave Hayleigh something to put her out. She may have been partying with the cousins or she may have been solo partying at that point. Only problem is Hayleigh does not wake up. At this point Ron and TC and possibly J get involved. Croslin cleanup crew is promptly instructed to get rid of the drugs, get rid of the guns and get rid of the body. The primary tool to evade LE is simply A. Say nothing and B. Lie.

The main fear that is driving all of them is not that some participant will kill them, but that given the manner of the childs death, and the materials and conditions in the actual home, any and all involved in any way would and will be going to jail for most of their natural lives. Accidental or not. Their only hope for avoiding jail time on at a minimum child endangerment charges, parole violations, drug and weapons charges, and anything and everything that LE can throw at them is the kidnapping story.

BBM...I realize others may believe the incident occurred in the MH, however I have never thought that to be the case..JMO

 

[Pondering Mind]

Unlikely. 911 calls are public records. The situations where they may be legally edited are very few and very specific. And when such edits are made the released record must state what edits where made, where and why. In most cases these edits are limited to specific types of personal information (such as addresses and phone numbers) or highly specific information involving children. Although in the case of children more often the entire call will simply be sealed and an edited sumary released to the public where required.

As I said, editing 911 calls is not something subject to speculation or debate. If it was done you know upfront it was done, where, and at least a basic of why. If you were not told it was edited, then an edited call was not released.

In this case if one of the participants attorneys is referencing something from a 911 call, that cannot in fact be found on the 911 tape, then the safe and by far most likely assumption is the attorney is either in error, and the comment was made via a diferent medium, such as police or media interview, or the attorney is simply spouting a line of bullplop to present his client in a way more favorable to him. In the case of cousin Joe and the 911 tapes, I'll give the lawyer the benefit of the doubt and assume that any such statements by RC were made to the early investigating officers instead of the 911 operator.

Right! Originally the call was redacted from everything I can tell...but only in regards to names (including Misty's, HaLeigh's).. their address..any personal info. It doesn't appear that anything else was edited out at any point. That's just my take on it..fwiw..

 

[Pondering Mind]

BBM...I realize others may believe the incident occurred in the MH, however I have never thought that to be the case..JMO

You know..all of this time, I have never been able to decide where I thought it happened OR exactly how it happened. Of course, I have a general theory, (mostly consists of what I believe didn't happen :waitasec but with so many lies from the beginning, I just don't know..sigh ...


As far as the 'who'...I firmly believe Misty and Ronald w/Ron being the the actual perp...all the rest..hmmm..I just really don't see it..although anything is possible. I can't see them telling anyone and don't think they had help, but that is subject to change..:banghead: