2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[gwenabob]

If only people who could pay cash up front for legal representation hired lawyers, there would be a lot of bulging jails and a lot of starving attorneys.

A 10% retainer is pretty common to get started, and more lump sum payments may be required in the future, other than that, typically there is a payment schedule. Of course we don't know that there isn't some contingency going on here either.

Regardless, even if he *cost* 350k, it would be EXTREMELY unusual for her to pay that up front in cash.

It wouldn't be unusual for a criminal case. What lawyer would take on a case that could drag on for years without some assurance his bills will be paid in the future? It is very, very difficult for a lawyer to drop his client in the middle of a capital case because he is not being paid. The judge will say "Tough luck. Should have gotten it upfront."

Under circumstances like this, it would be extremely common for defendants to stiff their attorney because they don't like the results.

 

[ami]

It's only Kaine's business to know what joint assets were used. Anything after he filed for divorce unless earned by him is kind of up for grabs, depending on how this plays out. Anything after the divorce is final (because unless there IS a contingency here, Terri will be paying Houze off until one or the other leaves this Earth) is none of his business whatsoever.

That's why he's requested information. How much did Terri pay Houze, or agree to pay Houze while still financially connected to Kaine? Sounds simple enough. If she was indeed lying to MC or exaggerating her financial obligation, then she can prove that very easily in court and they can put this subject away. That's what the hearing is for. Once she & Houze prove that she didn't spend money that has any connection to their marriage/marital finances, I'm sure Kaine won't give a crap what her financial obligations are post-marriage.

 

[SurfieTX]

Can you put the "case" of Kyron missing in with the divorce? I don't know if our lawyers are still here, but logically speaking (out of my rear), I don't understand how you can say "I want a divorce because she tried to kill me and she is involved with the disappearance of my son" WHICH may of contributed to the divorce, BUT there is no proof yet - at all. I don't know if dragging it "witnesses" to a divorce proceeding would be good and or valuable to a divorce case, IMO. Wouldn't these people get burnt out?
Lawyers, halp please!!!

Kaine said in his motion that LE gave him "probable cause" to believe those 2 things about Terri. We are not privy to what LE told Kaine. I'm sure that will come out in the hearing for divorce, which is why I think the Grand Jury is being extended into October.

It's, IMHO, a strategical move on Kaine's attorney's part because they can enter that into evidence for the divorce. Terri will have 2 choices - defend herself or not defend herself of the accusations and/or the "proof" that LE provided to Kaine. It's a double-edged sword for her. If she defends herself, then those statements will probably be used in the criminal case. If she doesn't and the Court believes Kaine, he will get everything most likely to and including sole custody of baby K.

ETA: This puts Terri in a real pickle because if she chooses to plead the 5th and as a result loses custody of baby K - how are them apples going to look when and if she goes to trial for Kyron's case or even for the grand jurors? She's going to look like a callous, hard person who doesn't care about ANY of her kids (step or otherwise). Houze and he Bunch didn't pull the 2 year stipulation out of the clear blue sky. They both know that's about how long it will take for Terri to get charged and for the case to go to trial.

 

[MarieFaith]

It's only Kaine's business to know what joint assets were used. Anything after he filed for divorce unless earned by him is kind of up for grabs, depending on how this plays out. Anything after the divorce is final (because unless there IS a contingency here, Terri will be paying Houze off until one or the other leaves this Earth) is none of his business whatsoever.

I have no argument with this. Of course, after the divorce is final, her financial situation is none of his concern. I'm sure he's looking forward to that day.

But before then? As you point out (I don't know how to snip), "Anything after he filed for divorce unless earned by him is kind of up for grabs, depending on how this plays out."

He has every reason to want as much info as possible right now. He has every right to insure his own protection.

 

[BringKyronHome]

It's only Kaine's business to know what joint assets were used. Anything after he filed for divorce unless earned by him is kind of up for grabs, depending on how this plays out. Anything after the divorce is final (because unless there IS a contingency here, Terri will be paying Houze off until one or the other leaves this Earth) is none of his business whatsoever.

Give me a break. She can't promise anything that is jointly owned.

She can't sell the house without him participating.

She can't sell property that he is essentially in possession of.

She can't liquidate any JOINT accounts without him.

It's ridiculous to think that:
1.) she COULD access any joint property to fund her defense or her divorce.
2.) that any lawyer would accept payment in terms of a promise of said property.

Who cares where she's getting the money - maybe she sold those pics she texted to Mike Cook.

Maybe she's taken up pole dancing.

Maybe she sold the exclusive rights to her side of the story to some big publishing company.

Maybe she sold the rights to her attorney.

Maybe she hawked her jewlery.

Maybe her mustang is on E-bay.

Maybe her parents took a loan out against their house.

Maybe they are plain old paying for it.

Maybe she liquidated a retirement account.

Maybe she had some other asset or account from before she was married to Kaine.

Houze is getting all kinds of PR for this. He does like high profile cases. Maybe he's doing this all for the advertising - or maybe the payment will come at the end.

Maybe he's so sure of her innocence that phase 2 will be sueing Portland on a few different levels for slander and other things.

Who cares?!

I'd be willing to bet she isn't paying anything.

And what does it matter anyway? There is NO chance that Kaine's money is being used...and they know that - so what's with the antics?

 

[loves2bmom]

I'd be willing to bet she isn't paying anything.

And what does it matter anyway? There is NO chance that Kaine's money is being used...and they know that - so what's with the antics?

BBM and snipped for space.

I have the exact same question for TH and her attorney. Why not just state where the money is coming from and then there wouldn't have to be a hearing on it all. There is a reason for the secrecy. There are "antics' on both sides IMO.

 

[rnmif]

It wouldn't be unusual for a criminal case. What lawyer would take on a case that could drag on for years without some assurance his bills will be paid in the future? It is very, very difficult for a lawyer to drop his client in the middle of a capital case because he is not being paid. The judge will say "Tough luck. Should have gotten it upfront."

Under circumstances like this, it would be extremely common for defendants to stiff their attorney because they don't like the results.

The issue is not what lawyers *want*, it is what they can actually *get*.

Most folks don't have access to that kind of cash in any way, shape or form. Hence the common practice of starting a case with a retainer.

When the retainer runs out, a new one may be paid, if something looks hairy, a new lump sum may be requested, but it's a rare client that can pay an estimated legal bill up front, and even if they can, an attorney is unlikely to request it and a client is unlikely to pay it. Nobody pays a mechanic, contractor, or doctor, no matter how good, for the entire cost up front.

 

[debs]

BBM and snipped for space.

I have the exact same question for TH and her attorney. Why not just state where the money is coming from and then there wouldn't have to be a hearing on it all. There is a reason for the secrecy. There are "antics' on both sides IMO.

I disagree that Terri's attorney is applying antics to his strategy. Terri's right to counsel is essentially being challenged by an assumption on Kaine's part that he has the right to know how she's paying for her attorney. The fact is, he doesn't have the right to have Terri supply him with the answers. If Kaine believes his accounts have been drained, it is up to him to show proof of that. He has not. He just wants to know. If Kaine believes she got the money by selling his son to someone, it's up to him to prove that. He has not shown any information which suggests this. He just wants to know. What he wants is her to hand him information which has no bearing on their divorce. What he wants is the opportunity to ask her questions that he believes will incriminate her in a criminal proceeding that HASN'T EVEN BEGUN. He wants his answers, and of course people can understand. But rational minds take care of those things when our emotions take over.

He can't just tell her to sit on the stand and answer his questions because he wants the answers.

 

[Aedrys]

Give me a break. She can't promise anything that is jointly owned.

She can't sell the house without him participating.

She can't sell property that he is essentially in possession of.

She can't liquidate any JOINT accounts without him.

It's ridiculous to think that:
1.) she COULD access any joint property to fund her defense or her divorce.
2.) that any lawyer would accept payment in terms of a promise of said property.

Who cares where she's getting the money - maybe she sold those pics she texted to Mike Cook.

Maybe she's taken up pole dancing.

Maybe she sold the exclusive rights to her side of the story to some big publishing company.

Maybe she sold the rights to her attorney.

Maybe she hawked her jewlery.

Maybe her mustang is on E-bay.

Maybe her parents took a loan out against their house.

Maybe they are plain old paying for it.

Maybe she liquidated a retirement account.

Maybe she had some other asset or account from before she was married to Kaine.

Houze is getting all kinds of PR for this. He does like high profile cases. Maybe he's doing this all for the advertising - or maybe the payment will come at the end.

Maybe he's so sure of her innocence that phase 2 will be sueing Portland on a few different levels for slander and other things.

Who cares?!

I'd be willing to bet she isn't paying anything.

And what does it matter anyway? There is NO chance that Kaine's money is being used...and they know that - so what's with the antics?

Then what is the big deal with her and her lawyer saying that she's not paying anything? That would clear up this whole issue. And she was going to pay a landscaper to kill Kaine - I don't think she was going to get Kaine's permission to get that money, which means she can get her hands on money without him knowing about it. I don't blame him one bit for worrying about where all of this money is suddenly coming from if she did pay Houze.

But it's on Terri, not Kaine. She sent the text that started this whole thing. She now needs to answer for it one way or the other. It's as simple as that. Like someone said before, as long as Kaine knows none of that money belongs to him, I don't think he'll care where she got it from.

 

[stumpedpa]

Give me a break. She can't promise anything that is jointly owned.

She can't sell the house without him participating.

She can't sell property that he is essentially in possession of.

She can't liquidate any JOINT accounts without him.

It's ridiculous to think that:
1.) she COULD access any joint property to fund her defense or her divorce.
2.) that any lawyer would accept payment in terms of a promise of said property.

Who cares where she's getting the money - maybe she sold those pics she texted to Mike Cook.

Maybe she's taken up pole dancing.

Maybe she sold the exclusive rights to her side of the story to some big publishing company.

Maybe she sold the rights to her attorney.

Maybe she hawked her jewlery.

Maybe her mustang is on E-bay.

Maybe her parents took a loan out against their house.

Maybe they are plain old paying for it.

Maybe she liquidated a retirement account.

Maybe she had some other asset or account from before she was married to Kaine.

Houze is getting all kinds of PR for this. He does like high profile cases. Maybe he's doing this all for the advertising - or maybe the payment will come at the end.

Maybe he's so sure of her innocence that phase 2 will be sueing Portland on a few different levels for slander and other things.

Who cares?!

I'd be willing to bet she isn't paying anything.

And what does it matter anyway? There is NO chance that Kaine's money is being used...and they know that - so what's with the antics?

Respectfully BBM and not snipped for space
.......and just maybe she used money from selling Kyron

just saying....that's why it matters.....

just an option not anything I can back up with any facts at all....mho...moo....all that

 

[SurfieTX]

I disagree that Terri's attorney is applying antics to his strategy. Terri's right to counsel is essentially being challenged by an assumption on Kaine's part that he has the right to know how she's paying for her attorney. The fact is, he doesn't have the right to have Terri supply him with the answers. If Kaine believes his accounts have been drained, it is up to him to show proof of that. He has not. He just wants to know. If Kaine believes she got the money by selling his son to someone, it's up to him to prove that. He has not shown any information which suggests this. He just wants to know. What he wants is her to hand him information which has no bearing on their divorce. What he wants is the opportunity to ask her questions that he believes will incriminate her in a criminal proceeding that HASN'T EVEN BEGUN. He wants his answers, and of course people can understand. But rational minds take care of those things when our emotions take over.

He can't just tell her to sit on the stand and answer his questions because he wants the answers.

I think it all depends on whether Oregon is a community property state. In some states, any debt incurred while the marriage is intact is considered a liability to both the husband and the wife - no matter how the debt was incurred (i.e., personal signature loans w/o spousal signature, personal credit cards, etc.). In any event, the judge heard the motions yesterday and ruled on them, so it's a moot point anyway.

 

[Donjeta]

If Terri hasn't paid yet, IMO if I was Houze I would be worried if I'm going to get paid at all, because Bunch writes: "Husband has a significant income and had substantial savings when he filed for divorce. He can pay for his lawyer from his income and the assets in his control. That is in contrast to Wife who is unemployed and without any source of income and who has no significant assets."

Her divorce lawyer even wanted to abate the divorce case, postponing the division of assets and any financial settlement that Kaine might have to pay her.

 

[cypress]

Stepping out of the context of this case for a moment, this is extremely troubling to me:

BBM

"Husband has a significant income and had substantial savings when he filed for divorce. He can pay for his lawyer from his income and the assets in his control. That is in contrast to Wife who is unemployed and without any source of income and who has no significant assets."

I know a lot of people take anything like this as Kaine bashing, but really and truly, it's not. I'm simply trying to understand the dynamics of this relationship. Kaine and Terri have been together for years. She's been Kyron's primary caretaker for most of his life, and they have a child together. It is odd and worrisome, IMHO, that she has so few financial assets in the relationship.

 

[ami]

I disagree that Terri's attorney is applying antics to his strategy. Terri's right to counsel is essentially being challenged by an assumption on Kaine's part that he has the right to know how she's paying for her attorney. The fact is, he doesn't have the right to have Terri supply him with the answers. If Kaine believes his accounts have been drained, it is up to him to show proof of that. He has not. He just wants to know. If Kaine believes she got the money by selling his son to someone, it's up to him to prove that. He has not shown any information which suggests this. He just wants to know. What he wants is her to hand him information which has no bearing on their divorce. What he wants is the opportunity to ask her questions that he believes will incriminate her in a criminal proceeding that HASN'T EVEN BEGUN. He wants his answers, and of course people can understand. But rational minds take care of those things when our emotions take over.

He can't just tell her to sit on the stand and answer his questions because he wants the answers.

He's married to her, he has the right to know about her/their finances. And both parties have to disclose finances in a divorce proceeding. Their finances DO have bearing on their divorce, which is why financial disclosure is a normal, regular, procedural part of every divorce. He has every right to ask Terri for this information, just as she has the right to ask Kaine about their joint finances.

When financial disclosure is a normal part of divorce proceedings, Kaine's request for financial disclosure is rational and expected.

 

[debs]

He's married to her, he has the right to know about her/their finances. And both parties have to disclose finances in a divorce proceeding. Their finances DO have bearing on their divorce, which is why financial disclosure is a normal, regular, procedural part of every divorce. He has every right to ask Terri for this information, just as she has the right to ask Kaine about their joint finances.

When financial disclosure is a normal part of divorce proceedings, Kaine's request for financial disclosure is rational and expected.

Really? Because that goes both ways. She's equally within her rights to access to the marital assets. She should have access to Kaine's "substantial income and savings." Their finances do have bearing; Terri has not presented a cause that states she would like Kaine to pay for her defense attorney. I believe both divorce attorneys submitted the requisite motion to have the other spouse pay for their divorce attorney.

 

[Aedrys]

Stepping out of the context of this case for a moment, this is extremely troubling to me:

"Husband has a significant income and had substantial savings when he filed for divorce. He can pay for his lawyer from his income and the assets in his control. That is in contrast to Wife who is unemployed and without any source of income and who has no significant assets."

I know a lot of people take anything like this as Kaine bashing, but really and truly, it's not. I'm simply trying to understand the dynamics of this relationship. Kaine and Terri have been together for years. She'd been Kyron's primary caretaker for most of his life, and they had a child together. It is odd and worrisome, IMHO, that she has so few financial assets in the relationship.

She also had a huge settlement from a lawsuit over that restaurant, and I'm sure filed a lawsuit for the car accident. She's gotten lots of money over the years for J. Where is that money now? Sounds to me like Kaine knows how to manage his money and Terri does not. That is her fault, not Kaine's. I think he indulged her a lot during the marriage instead of helping her to get her own career and own money. She chose not to work and earn any money for herself. And now she wants to complain because her former sugar daddy isn't giving her money anymore. She's used to getting it from other people, not earning it herself, unfortunately.

If you want your own money, you work for it and earn it. You don't just sponge it off of your spouse for years and then complain when it's not there anymore. If Terri has no money, well tough s***. That is her problem, not Kaine's. And she shouldn't be bragging about how much her attorney costs if she can't afford to pay him, either.

 

[SurfieTX]

If Terri hasn't paid yet, IMO if I was Houze I would be worried if I'm going to get paid at all, because Bunch writes: "Husband has a significant income and had substantial savings when he filed for divorce. He can pay for his lawyer from his income and the assets in his control. That is in contrast to Wife who is unemployed and without any source of income and who has no significant assets."

Her divorce lawyer even wanted to abate the divorce case, postponing the division of assets and any financial settlement that Kaine might have to pay her.

BBM. Another strategic move on HER attorney's part. They wanted to abate EVERYTHING in the divorce pending the potential criminal trial. Why? Because what if Terri was found not guilty? What if Kaine could get a substantial amount in a law suit against the school district? All assets would be divvied up during the divorce - to and including a settlement by the school district.

These lawyers are playing cat and mouse AND chicken with one another.

 

[ami]

Really? Because that goes both ways. She's equally within her rights to access to the marital assets. She should have access to Kaine's "substantial income and savings." Their finances do have bearing; Terri has not presented a cause that states she would like Kaine to pay for her defense attorney. I believe both divorce attorneys submitted the requisite motion to have the other spouse pay for their divorce attorney.

Of course it goes both ways, as I've said, and I'm sure the attorneys will cover all of that as attorneys usually do in divorce cases. Terri has a right to have Kaine disclose his assets and debts just as Kaine has every right to know what assets and debts Terri had. As soon as Terri's attorney comes up with the proof that the finances Terri mentioned in writing aren't connected to the marital assets or debts, I'm sure they'll move on to other issues concerning the marital assets.

 

[Donjeta]

Stepping out of the context of this case for a moment, this is extremely troubling to me:

BBM

"Husband has a significant income and had substantial savings when he filed for divorce. He can pay for his lawyer from his income and the assets in his control. That is in contrast to Wife who is unemployed and without any source of income and who has no significant assets."

I know a lot of people take anything like this as Kaine bashing, but really and truly, it's not. I'm simply trying to understand the dynamics of this relationship. Kaine and Terri have been together for years. She's been Kyron's primary caretaker for most of his life, and they have a child together. It is odd and worrisome, IMHO, that she has so few financial assets in the relationship.

But then she's 40, she's been working throughout her adult life prior to her relationship to Kaine and also held several jobs during her relationship to Kaine. She got something out of a couple court cases, she had owned a house together with her previous husband... Where did all that money go and didn't she look after her interests when marrying Kaine?

If she now has nothing at all to show for all those years of hard work, IMO it can't be all Kaine's fault. Even if he's a total and complete jerk who wants to control his wife's finances and pocket everything his wife has to let him.

 

[BringKyronHome]

Then what is the big deal with her and her lawyer saying that she's not paying anything? That would clear up this whole issue. And she was going to pay a landscaper to kill Kaine - I don't think she was going to get Kaine's permission to get that money, which means she can get her hands on money without him knowing about it. I don't blame him one bit for worrying about where all of this money is suddenly coming from if she did pay Houze.

But it's on Terri, not Kaine. She sent the text that started this whole thing. She now needs to answer for it one way or the other. It's as simple as that. Like someone said before, as long as Kaine knows none of that money belongs to him, I don't think he'll care where she got it from.

Does he not know how to read his own bank records?

If he has no missing money, then, it's not his...pretty simple.

And he does not have any right to know...suppose she has made some deal...

a trade in sex,
a flic
a story to the enquirer

what does it matter...she does not have to tell him.

The bottom line is that the money is not his, and his attorney's should be able to check his records if he, for some reason, cannot figure it out on his own.

They are fishing for somehting else...and Houze (aka Terri) is likely just making them ask correctly.

UGH! This whole things gives me a headache...I can't believe we are sitting here talking about where money is coming from when there is a child out there somewhere...how she's financing her attorney must be pretty dang important to distract him from Kyron...hope it helps him sleep at night.