2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[BeanE]

I know, that's why I am wondering where it came from?

Found it on the ground. (not a gift, not a loan.) I'm noodling.

ETA: I would be surprised if she's paid Houze more than $10k so far.

 

[Calliope]

It would seem Terri won on both motions.

 

[Billylee]

Bunch contends Kaine Horman's interest in seeking the source of Terri Horman's attorney fees is to interfere with his estranged wife's attorney-client relationship with Houze and to "aid police in their investigations."


Please note the quotations are from the reporter, not from me.
The reporter said that Bunch contends that Kaine's interest in seeking the source is to "aid police in their investigations".

Now I take that to mean that Bunch thinks Kaine thinks if he finds out the source it will aid the police in their investigations. So where is KH thinking this money came from, because I do not see how if it came from TH's parents it could possibly aid police in their investigations.

Am I missing something?

 

[freefallzzzz]

Araksya Araksya Karapetyan

Divorce on hold until Jan 6th- Kaine talked with reporters after-Terri left from the back of the courthouse. Michael Cook was not called in
30 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/Araksya/

 

[BeanE]

Bunch contends Kaine Horman's interest in seeking the source of Terri Horman's attorney fees is to interfere with his estranged wife's attorney-client relationship with Houze and to "aid police in their investigations."


Please note the quotations are from the reporter, not from me.
The reporter said that Bunch contends that Kaine's interest in seeking the source is to "aid police in their investigations".

Now I take that to mean that Bunch thinks Kaine thinks if he finds out the source it will aid the police in their investigations. So where is KH thinking this money came from, because I do not see how if it came from TH's parents it could possibly aid police in their investigations.

Am I missing something?

I'm reading it the same way, Billylee. Bunch thinks Kaine thinks.

If there is indeed more to what Kaine is doing by requesting to know the source than a need to know if he has a financial obligation, then I think perhaps Kaine has read some of the wild and unfounded speculation on the net.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't take that to mean that Bunch thinks it will aid the investigation; I take it to mean he thinks Kaine thinks it might be something that would. And that that is why Kaine wants to know.

I can't think of any way it is not a gift or a loan unless she sold some items for a down payment and the amount paid is far less than indicated so far. She may have sold her rings, for all we know and whatever else was hers to sell.

 

[stmarysmead]

If the money was "not a gift and not a loan"...then Terri "earned " this money in some fashion. She did something that resulted in sums of money for that service or that object or... that person.... she conveyed. That's how she got her money.

If the money were from her parents, it would certainly be "the loan or gift"...and this would be a non-issue.

If LE believes that Terri "earned" money as part of a criminal activity that connects to Kyron's disappearance, I say kudos to Kaine, the loving Dad...for assisting in helping gain more information.

The fact remains if Terri had a simple answer...it could IN NO WAY..hurt her or her rights. The fact that she DOES NOT...is huge.

Put yourself in her place...if you could even just clear this one thing up...wouldn't you?

Terri apparently...cannot disclose the source or means in which she came by that money.

WOW!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Bunch contends Kaine Horman's interest in seeking the source of Terri Horman's attorney fees is to interfere with his estranged wife's attorney-client relationship with Houze and to "aid police in their investigations."

Please note the quotations are from the reporter, not from me.
The reporter said that Bunch contends that Kaine's interest in seeking the source is to "aid police in their investigations".

Now I take that to mean that Bunch thinks Kaine thinks if he finds out the source it will aid the police in their investigations. So where is KH thinking this money came from, because I do not see how if it came from TH's parents it could possibly aid police in their investigations.

Am I missing something?

As long as the money didn't come from illegal sources, I don't really give a rat's azz where Terri got the money for her legal defense. jmo

 

[debs]

Yet, if a divorce abatement is granted, Bunch said he'd asked the court to alter the current "no parenting time" restriction Terri Horman faces to allow some type of supervised, reasonable contact between Terri Horman and her daughter, K.

She's the primary parent. That child needs to see her," Bunch said. "Certainly Ms. Horman misses her child and would like to see her. Her complete primary focus is her relationship with her daughter."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/judge_delays_terri_and_kaine_h.html

 

[Jade2010]

I think that's the point. If her parents are paying, what is the big secret? They would present that fact and be done but instead they said it's neither a loan or a gift...if I read that correctly. Just getting back from an appointment and trying to catch up.

L2BM, I think it may be for safety issues, to protect them. Protect them from being in news stories, from retaliation.

It would seem easy to just tell Kaine my parents are paying for my defense but then it would then be somewhere in a news story where Kaine* says Terri's parents are paying for her defense and then the doors open to that mentioned above.

*and I would in no way fault Kaine for sharing that info if he had it. I'm just saying then it would be a news story, etc.

 

[Billylee]

Anyone wonder why the judge put a 90 day abatement and then goes on to say the attorneys can come back to get an extension?

JMHO, but I think this judge is sending a message to LE to get their ducks in a row, because they are bordering on some constitutional inequities. JMHO

 

[stmarysmead]

There is some reason that Terri can not give a simple answer.

Some reasons her attorneys cannot allow her to give a simple answer. An unemployed housewife suddenly has a substantial amount of money that is neither a "gift or a loan." Apparently not from her parents, or this would be a non-issue.

Now this unemployed housewife also has a missing stepson and substantial cash on hand and is afraid to give a simple answer. She is believed by LE to have tried to have her husband murdered...also with offers of "substantial" sums of money.

This is a rat-in-a-trap scenario. SHE knows...LE knows...and so do her attorneys. That's why they cannot do...the simple thing...the easy thing...the truth.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I don't take that to mean that Bunch thinks it will aid the investigation; I take it to mean he thinks Kaine thinks it might be something that would. And that that is why Kaine wants to know.

I can't think of any way it is not a gift or a loan unless she sold some items for a down payment and the amount paid is far less than indicated so far. She may have sold her rings, for all we know and whatever else was hers to sell.

I am not a lawyer and I have no idea if the following is correct or not. I think it is but since I am not a lawyer... well, you get my meaning.

If TMH's parents paid the money directly to Mr Houze to retain his services for themselves and they then chose to define the services they wanted as being those that would involve defending their daughter, TMH, then I think the money would be neither a gift (since it was never in TMH's control) or a loan (since they wouldn't want to be paid back).

And Mr Houze would not actually be employed by TMH, he would actually be employed by her parents.

 

[freefallzzzz]

jmorkert jessica morkert
Michael Cook was in court today and very talkative off the record - on the record he would not say much!!
1 minute ago

http://twitter.com/#!/jmorkert/

 

[Billylee]

I take it the money never crossed TH's hands. But why is KH (according to Bunch) thinking it would aid LE's case? (Maybe Bunch was just talking out his arse?)
The only thing I could think of that might aid LE's case is if it came from another party they are investigating, it couldn't be from a sale of something of TH's because that would mean she had the money and the papers filed say it came from a 3rd party.

 

[loves2bmom]

L2BM, I think it may be for safety issues, to protect them. Protect them from being in news stories, from retaliation.

It would seem easy to just tell Kaine my parents are paying for my defense but then it would then be somewhere in a news story where Kaine* says Terri's parents are paying for her defense and then the doors open to that mentioned above.

*and I would in no way fault Kaine for sharing that info if he had it. I'm just saying then it would be a news story, etc.

Thanks Jade! But her attorney didn't reference anything about being afraid for the Moulton's safety. He did issue this statement though which really caught my eye:

"Bunch said Terri Horman is no doubt the focus of the criminal investigation into Kyron’s disappearance.* He said any testimony or questions about finances that will come up during the divorce proceedings may be used against her by investigators"

If her parents were simply paying for her defense, why would he make such a statement. There's got to be more to it.

http://www.kptv.com/news/25317391/detail.html

 

[stmarysmead]

"Houze suggested the filing of the divorce case by Kaine Horman represents an attempt by the state to use the civil process to gain discovery for the ongoing criminal inquiry. "There can be no doubt that one of the purposes to be served by discovery is to elicit information by Ms. Horman that would be directly channeled to police,'' Houze argued.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/judge_delays_terri_and_kaine_h.html

"Aid in discovery"...of course. The unemployed housewife with money to hire killers and high priced lawyers would have much to hide. Disclosing her sources of money would "aid in discovery."

This could have been an "AHA!" moment...Terri saying, "Look, the money is from my parents...see how ridiculous all your suspicions are!" She might have scored a little PR victory by telling a simple truth.

But the truth is NOT simple...so therefore there s need to be evasive, mysterious, use twisted talk..."not a gift, not a loan."

Terri has to dodge and evade because she is in the crosshairs of LE...and she knows it. She cannot disclose how the unemployed housewife "earned" all that cash.

In my humble opinion, of course.

 

[gitana1]

Okay, so this says Bunch is going to file for custody modification. http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopul...bated-until-Jan-6/GonG6-VnTkmaYBikdxxq7Q.cspx

Gitana1 says if that is filed, the same obstacles remain that cause the request for abatement? Am I reading that right? :waitasec: I don't know why all the ado about nothing if the custody modification will trigger the same issues?????

Unless they are more worried about where the money came from than anything else? Am I in left field here? Correct me if I am.

It kind of confused me as well. There must be something else, in the discovery process, outside of custody, that TH's attorneys feel may incriminate her. It may be more than the money though. Hmm.
Because if they actually decide to ask for some parenting time, KH is going to use the same allegations to argue against it. Unless maybe they stipulate to some supervised visitation which solves both of their problems: Kaine's that he likely (IMO) cannot or does not want to produce actual evidence to support his allegations (because LE won't release it since it's part of an on-going investigation) and TH's that she cannot actually address those allegations for some reason (either because she is afraid to incriminate herself, does not want to have pleading the fifth used against her civilly or because she does not want his allegations/any evidence outlined).

Her parents are paying for her defense. It's not unusual and I don't understand why made such a mystery.

IN MY OPINION OF COURSE.

We don't know that for sure. Seems likely to me though, but that would be a gift, I think.

So Kaine will still be married and responsible for TH ?????
Keeping her on medical benefits etc???
til another long hearing in Jan 11????

Can he testify against her if he needs to in OR law???

I am wondering if Judge thinks TH will be in jail by then?

I am not following this mess very well..........

He will still be married (unless they bifurcate status) and he will be responsible for her medical benefits if that's what he was doing before they separated.

He can choose to testify against TH at any time. Any married person can choose to testify against their spouse but cannot be compelled to.

It would seem Terri won on both motions.

She really didn't. She asked for a two year abatement and got 90 days. That's a compromise that is more in favor of KH's position, when looking at the length of time. Also, there was no ruling yet on whether she needs to disclose the source of her criminal attorney's fees because that was postponed for at least 90 days. That's why the abatement motion was set first.

I wonder now about this money for her attorney's fees. Never interested me until now. The abatement does protect her from having to answer questions about it. KH cannot serve discovery to look at her bank accounts or otherwise trace how she got it and she cannot be compelled to state, under oath, either in writing or otherwise, where she got it. I wonder what the issue is? Why does she want the abatement?

Well, let's see if she goes for a mod of the RO orders as to custody and tries to seek parenting time as her lawyer suggested, prior to the 90 days being up. I am very interested to see what she'll do next.

BTW, the judge seems to really understand exactly what is going on here, and what a delicate balance it all is. I am fascinated.

 

[debs]

At least the Judge is appreciative that Terri has Constitutional Rights, if people in general would choose to deny them to her.

 

[miabellamoure]

Yet, if a divorce abatement is granted, Bunch said he'd asked the court to alter the current "no parenting time" restriction Terri Horman faces to allow some type of supervised, reasonable contact between Terri Horman and her daughter, K****.

She's the primary parent. That child needs to see her," Bunch said. "Certainly Ms. Horman misses her child and would like to see her. Her complete primary focus is her relationship with her daughter."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/judge_delays_terri_and_kaine_h.html

Please edit your post...baby K's name is aglow.