2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

Status
Not open for further replies.
BBM

Fix it later? The damage of yanking baby girl out of mom's arms could be immeasurable, certainly not easily fixed! Why not prevent damage? Guess I'm confused by exactly what problem yanking her fixes? TIA

She counted on mom her entire short life for love, nourishment, safety, play, and learning. Mom was the one human being in baby's life that was constant 24/7.

One can't destroy the sensual memories such as touch, sound, smell, taste, sight. They will be with baby girl for a long time, maybe in the unconscious only to surface later in life.
all just my opinions and stuff like that.

No matter what she did...or didn't...do, TH will always be that baby's mother. I know several adopted women (and men) who have launched exhaustive searches to find birth parents. It doesn't matter why they were put up for adoption...they just want that connection. I think the fact that TH is fighting for contact with her daughter will mean a lot to the child once she's grown and has to deal with the realities of what happened to Kyron, whether her mother is guilty of wrong doing in the case or not.
 
What problem will be fixed if baby K is taken from her mommy's arms? What purpose does it serve? Terri hasn't been charged with a single thing as of yet. She is not a POI or a suspect. moo

If keeping baby K from her mommy is a punishment, who really is being punished? Babies and children should never be used for that purpose. Guess I'm at a loss as to what the reasons are for such a harsh response. What about separation anxiety? What about sensory memories? What about object constancy and trust? Just a few that came to mind. moo

Please remember that women in prison see their babies/children. More and more nurseries are being built in prisons for the very purpose of mom and child keeping in touch. moo

Then she was in an excellent position to object to the restraining order that prevented her from seeing or holding her child. She has not been charged so she should have no fear of the inevitable questions regarding fitness. SOP.

But the FACT is that she did not contest it. She didnt. There is no way getting around it. And now she wants to see and touch her child-naturally she does. But she still doesnt want to answer standard evaluation questions that would be asked of her to do it. Because somehow this would jepordize her in the criminal case.

I do not get why this is not a problem for everyone, but that is OK because we all have differing opinions and experiences.

Why should she be so afraid of questions, especially if they would ensure her recapturing her role as primary caregiver to her child? Most of the time, a tie goes to the mother especially one who has been a primary caregiver. But we are going to be approaching a threshold soon where Kaine can use that argument too.

The fact of the matter is that she has been advised not to cooperate with the standard evaluation, and she is going to appeal to a judge for relief. Fair enough. I am fascinated to see how the judge rules.
 
I have cared for a lot of infants and toddlers who were seperated from their ( often less than stellar) primary caregiver(s). The seperation itself always caused trauma, which had to be addressed, usually in therapy. It made little or no difference that their bio moms did not care for the children adequately...

Some child psychologists believe that the area of early childhood memory is poorly understood,at best. What IS known is that sudden,traumatic seperation from the primary caregiver is one of the leading causes of Attachment Disorder. IMO

In my experience with infants and toddlers who have been seperated from their primary caregivers, I would have to say that they DO remember them. And they take those memories to heart. MOO They will find a good memory in a sea of not so good memories, and cling onto it for dear life.

With regard to Baby K, I believe it is probably wiser to let her have supervised visits with her mother. This way,when K is older,she cannot use any lack of visits with her mother as a focus of resentment.... Just some thoughts...

All JMO





All JMO

All JMO
 
Then she was in an excellent position to object to the restraining order that prevented her from seeing or holding her child. She has not been charged so she should have no fear of the inevitable questions regarding fitness. SOP.

But the FACT is that she did not contest it. She didnt. There is no way getting around it. And now she wants to see and touch her child-naturally she does. But she still doesnt want to answer standard evaluation questions that would be asked of her to do it. Because somehow this would jepordize her in the criminal case.

I do not get why this is not a problem for everyone, but that is OK because we all have differing opinions and experiences.

Why should she be so afraid of questions, especially if they would ensure her recapturing her role as primary caregiver to her child? Most of the time, a tie goes to the mother especially one who has been a primary caregiver. But we are going to be approaching a threshold soon where Kaine can use that argument too.

The fact of the matter is that she has been advised not to cooperate with the standard evaluation, and she is going to appeal to a judge for relief. Fair enough. I am fascinated to see how the judge rules.

ITA and me too. I don't get this notion that she's fighting for her child. Not willing to answer questions or take an evaluation because of something she hasn't even been charged with is not fighting for her child, it's CYAing TH. Asking KH and his lawyer several times with an RO in place (meaning they can't say yes even if they want to) is not fighting for her child, it's just making TH look better. Letting three or more months go by before doing anything about the custody situation, which can't be dealt with anyway for another three months if I'm understanding it correctly, is not fighting for her child, it's again, just a strategy to benefit TH.

I just don't see any real fighting here, no fighting at all. I see a woman who's obviously guilty and wanting to protect herself and try to make herself look good in a divorce case. Even if she's innocent by some small chance, she's still not fighting to see this child, and that should worry people. Wouldn't an innocent person put themselves through hell no matter the consequences to see their child? Surely an innocent person would not hide behind a lawyer and their rights, foregoing the health and welfare of their child, and lamely ask to see that same child. I don't see a third party expert having the same weight with a judge as the mother on the stand, crying and begging to see her child. Yet TH refuses to do even that, and how in the heck would that incriminate her in Kyron's case? That would only make her look better, yet she refuses to do something small and unconnected to Kyron like that.

TH calls herself baby K's primary caregiver, yet is surely not acting like it. We don't even know if she really was taking good care of baby K either. We don't know what kind of bond is there or if there even was a bond. People thought Caylee Anthony was well taken care of and loved by her birth mother, and now's she dead at her birth mother's hands. Just because a woman gives birth, doesn't mean they're mother material or love the child they gave birth to. And with baby K doing so well without her mother, that, to me says that there wasn't a great bond between mother and daughter to begin with. And how dare she call herself baby K's primary caregiver when she's hasn't been going on four months now and won't be for at least three more months. That's not primary caregiving to me.

Baby K is obviously secondary to TH's needs, and that's unfortunate. TH will always be her mother, and when she looks back on this divorce case and sees how her mother spent more time defending herself than baby K, I'm sure that's going to cause a lot of hurt feelings.

TH should be fighting tooth and nail for her daughter, but sorry baby K, mommy would rather not incriminate herself right now. Maybe she'll see you later if it doesn't incriminate her in any way. That, to me, says volumes.
 
Good gosh, the baby is 22 months old and her mother has been her primary caretaker. of course this will have impact on the baby. how can it not? Mothers are not so easily forgotten or replaced, especially at 22 months.

This is a horrible situation all the way around. If TH is guilty baby K loses, if TH is innocent baby K loses. this is a nightmare no matter how you slice it.

It is truly a tragic situation. Thank goodness absent parents aren't too soon forgotten. When I think of our thousands of service men and women who are deployed for over a year at a time, leaving their children behind, it must weigh very heavily on their hearts that their children won't forget them.

Until someone is charged with a crime, they deserve all rights provided to them by our constitution. I haven't seen Terri charge with any crime. Our opinions are simply that; opinions. :banghead:
 
It is truly a tragic situation. Thank goodness absent parents aren't too soon forgotten. When I think of our thousands of service men and women who are deployed for over a year at a time, leaving their children behind, it must weigh very heavily on their hearts that their children won't forget them.

Until someone is charged with a crime, they deserve all rights provided to them by our constitution. I haven't seen Terri charge with any crime.
Our opinions are simply that; opinions. :banghead:

BBM. Agreed. It is the opinions formed by those investigating the disappearance of Terri Horman's stepson that matter...their opinions based on the reality of what they know. The opinions of the professionals with access to all the evidence. I'm crediting THEM.

Since Terri refuses to address those opinions...because it might "incriminate her"...Baby K's safety must take precedence over any sadness we might fear she would be undergoing.

BTW, the was a military Mom...my son was separated from his Dad for a year. He did very well during that time with loving Grand-dads and Uncles....and he was about Baby K's age.

He had many loving arms to hold him. His most difficult time was readjustment actually. IMO,it's love to which children respond....not "titles."

I believe Kaine when he says Baby K is a different child now. She may not have had much real attention from her Mother for all we know, busy as she was with computers, cameras, graphic self-portraits, workouts, long drives, Landscapers, etc. Seeing the back of someone as they sit at a computer or as they drive aimlessly around rather than cradle and comfort you...may not have been very sustaining to Baby K. and she may be flourishing from real loving attention now. I certainly hope so.
 
I would appreciate if someone would answer my question - what purpose does it serve to yank baby girl from the arms of her mother? What is it you want to fix?

Or, is it to punish Terri? And if it is, do you really believe children should be used as weapons? TIA
 
I would appreciate if someone would answer my question - what purpose does it serve to yank baby girl from the arms of her mother? What is it you want to fix?

Or, is it to punish Terri? And if it is, do you really believe children should be used as weapons? TIA

I've already posted my reasons, but I'm happy to do it again. First, I don't know what LE has to show the MFH or Terri's involvement in Kyron's disappearance. Kaine does, and he wants no contact, at least on whatever terms Houze/Bunch proposed. If there is a legitimate chance that Terri is guilty, than who knows what she might do when she sees baby. She is in a very desparate position.

I have the basically the same reason if she is innocent. In that case, she must be practically out of her mind, if not definitely so. Who knows what a mother is capable of doing in those circumstances. She may feel she is backed into a corner and has no choice but to do something drastic. And this is strictly my opinion, but she doesn't look mentally well to me. She has no observable affect whatsoever in any of the photos or video I've seen. Just blank.

Baby's safety is first and foremost and allowing supervised contact, especially depending on who is doing the supervising and where, could be very dangerous to baby, imo. It might not, but I, personally, wouldn't be willing to take that chance in this particular case.
 
If Kaine feels deep down in his heart that Terri is guilty of, or even considering the MFH plot and responsible for Kyron's gone missing. How can anyone even think his actions are for revenge or punnishment against Terri, for gods sake. Unless Kaine is some kind of an idiot, I would think his actions are for the love of his daughter and thinking of her well being, and nothing to do with revenge or punishment of Terri. If he feels Terri, in his heart is guilty, IMO he doesn't give a rats behind how Terri feels, his only concern is his daughter and what's best for her.
 
Baby K has been gone from her Mother's "arms" for over 4 months. There was no "yanking." Kaine gota RO order based onthe fact that LE said Terri had tried to have him killed and most likely was involved in his child's disappearance.

People who believe murder is an optional problem solver and who take part in the vanishing of a small child...in this case one who loved her...are dangerous people. So, on that basis, the RO is intended to "punish" no one...but keep Baby K safe.

Remember this RO is based on what the very professionals investigating this case believe to be the case. No one has repudiated this. Indeed , Terri's attorney says she IS the de facto suspect in a horrific crime...a little boy disappearing.

Now Terri had the legal right to step up and say. "You have been told some fantastic lies." and fight the RO if it was baseless and simply a he-said, she-said. But because fighting it would "incriminate her"...she chose NOT TO.

Again, no "yanking"...this was Terri's choice.

Terri had to weigh separation from her child, the damage some think the child is incurring...and saying nothing, letting the charges stand. Rather than fight, within 4 days, she was sexting, taking graphic photis of herself, buying bat phones, etc.

Those were her "priorities." If , at the least, she could have shot down the Murder for Hire...that would have been a public coup for her...a great move. And, if as many think, there is just nada there...why WOULD SHE NOT? One cannot be "incriminated" with something your yard guy says but has no proof of.

I cannot imagine any judge keeping Baby K from her...if she had proven that Murder for Hire false.

But she did not...and still has not. If she has done only ONE of the two things LE suspects, she is dangerous, her mind is skewed. She is coldly capable of murderous intentions, of snuffing an inconvenient life...something, Thank God... that is not prevalent.

Baby K's safety and well being come first. If Terri has done either of these things, forgetting her mother as best she can...is probably in her best interest.
 
I would appreciate if someone would answer my question - what purpose does it serve to yank baby girl from the arms of her mother? What is it you want to fix?

Or, is it to punish Terri? And if it is, do you really believe children should be used as weapons? TIA


I thought the reasoning behind yanking the baby from her mother's arms (the RO) was that it was thought that the baby might not be safe with her since there was a suspicion that the mother had her hand in yanking the baby's brother out of everybody's arms and had planned a murder for hire against the baby's father.

If it's not true it's very sad for all of them, but of course the baby's safety must be primary and I understand the concerns. Maybe they can do supervised visits but she should have requested them straight away and not waited this long IMO.

She hasn't been separated from her mother for one third of her life quite yet. Her birthday is in November, isn't it, so she's about 23 months now, and she's been away from Terri since the end of June, so that's four months or so, July, August, September, and part of October, a little less than one fifth of her life at this time. If the separation goes on for six more months she'll have been apart from Terri one third of her life.
 
BBM

Fix it later? The damage of yanking baby girl out of mom's arms could be immeasurable, certainly not easily fixed! Why not prevent damage? Guess I'm confused by exactly what problem yanking her fixes? TIA

She counted on mom her entire short life for love, nourishment, safety, play, and learning. Mom was the one human being in baby's life that was constant 24/7.

One can't destroy the sensual memories such as touch, sound, smell, taste, sight. They will be with baby girl for a long time, maybe in the unconscious only to surface later in life.
all just my opinions and stuff like that.

I don't think baby was yanked anywhere. I think kaine took her out of the house on the advice of LE and probably went about it in a most un-yanklike fashion. As far as baby is concerned, terri could be on vacation or in the military or, given her age, just "bye-bye" for a little while. It happens all the time to other people under much different, less dramatic circumstances. The fact that "we" know the drama of the circumstances here doesn't make it any more traumatic for baby, imo. And depending on how long the separation continues and the reasonse for that, I agree that baby could be detrimentally effected in the long term. When I said I hope they can mend this, I thought it was obvious that I meant as best they can. I think how easy or difficult that might be depends on the length of the separation and the reasons for it.

And, by the way, from my perspective, this is probably all moot since I think she will get supervised visitation.
 
I would appreciate if someone would answer my question - what purpose does it serve to yank baby girl from the arms of her mother? What is it you want to fix?

Or, is it to punish Terri? And if it is, do you really believe children should be used as weapons? TIA

Maybe a similar question should be posed to Terri:

What purpose does it serve, Terri, to yank a little boy from the arms of his mother and Dad? What is it you wanted to fix?

Or, is it to punish Kaine? And if it is, do you,Terri, really believe children should be used as weapons?

 
I would appreciate if someone would answer my question - what purpose does it serve to yank baby girl from the arms of her mother? What is it you want to fix?

Or, is it to punish Terri? And if it is, do you really believe children should be used as weapons? TIA

I take issue with you phrasing the situation as "to yank baby girl from the arms of her mother."

I would suggest that the better description is that the mother pushed baby girl from her arms by her very actions--and inaction.

My opinion.
 
I would appreciate if someone would answer my question - what purpose does it serve to yank baby girl from the arms of her mother? What is it you want to fix?

Or, is it to punish Terri? And if it is, do you really believe children should be used as weapons? TIA

Yank her from her arms? I dont know that this is in fact the case. She may have been in her father's care for some time prior to him leaving the home after having been informed by LE that he had reason to fear for his safety and the safety of his baby.

JMO.
 
Maybe a similar question should be posed to Terri:

What purpose does it serve, Terri, to yank a little boy from the arms of his mother and Dad? What is it you wanted to fix?

Or, is it to punish Kaine? And if it is, do you,Terri, really believe children should be used as weapons?


I wish we had a child advocate speaking to the rights of baby girl...she does have rights you know!

More importantly, I'm not suggesting that a 'he said - she said' discussion take place. If she did this, than he should do that. This isn't a game. Taking a 2yo away from the arms and safety of the mom who has cared for her 24/7 since birth is serious business, and can leave problems for a lifetime. moo moo

I have no idea if Terri disappeared Kyron, there is no evidence, no body, no crime scene and most importantly, no charges, no POI nor any suspects. What you say about Terri being guilty is based on your reading of circumstances. I have no evidence that Terri is guilty or innocent and on that basis, I wonder what the purpose is for advocating that baby girl be removed from her mom's arms.

Once again: What purpose does it serve to yank baby girl from the arms of her mother? What do people believe will happen if baby K is deprived of her mother?

And if it's to punish Terri and show her who has the upper hand, is that in the best interest of baby girl? Is baby girl being used as a means to punish Terri?

We desperately need a child advocate who speaks for the rights of baby girl. She does have rights!!!
 
Maybe a similar question should be posed to Terri:

What purpose does it serve, Terri, to yank a little boy from the arms of his mother and Dad? What is it you wanted to fix?

Or, is it to punish Kaine? And if it is, do you,Terri, really believe children should be used as weapons?


Thing is, there is NO evidence any of us have seen, proving Terri did "yank a little boy from the arms of his mother and dad", but we all know Kaine snuck out of the house with baby K.

My opinion only
 
Thing is, there is NO evidence any of us have seen, proving Terri did "yank a little boy from the arms of his mother and dad", but we all know Kaine snuck out of the house with baby K.

My opinion only

Yet she won't get on the stand and refute anything because it will incriminate her. That's more important than really fighting for baby K.

There's no yanking going on here. Baby K is still with her father by TH's CHOICE. All she has to do is refute the MFH, and she won't. It's not Kaine's fault. He can't force Terri to fight for her child. She has to choose to do that, and so far, she's chosen to stay quiet and not incriminate herself, and put off baby K's welfare for TH's own benefit. TH could have CHOSEN to have supervised visits long before now, and just now she's asking, and nothing can be decided for three more months. It was more important to put off the divorce and not incriminate TH than to see her daughter as soon as possible. Again, that was TH'S CHOICE.

Baby K does have rights. It's too bad TH's rights supercede baby K's by TH's OWN CHOICE. I'd think most child advocates would say the mother should fight for her child anyway she can, not hide behind a lawyer and her own rights and let an expert who doesn't even know her testify that baby K should see her mother.

She's taking the coward's way out to protect herself rather than fight for baby K, who needs a mother in her life. Some loving mother TH is turning out to be.

It doesn't matter what the evidence is or isn't, we could argue all day on that. It matters what TH is choosing to do in light of or in spite of that. And she has CHOSEN to cover herself, guilty or innocent, rather than fight like heck to see her child.
 
Thing is, there is NO evidence any of us have seen, proving Terri did "yank a little boy from the arms of his mother and dad", but we all know Kaine snuck out of the house with baby K.

My opinion only

I would say "FLED" is a more accurate description.
 
If Kaine feels deep down in his heart that Terri is guilty of, or even considering the MFH plot and responsible for Kyron's gone missing. How can anyone even think his actions are for revenge or punnishment against Terri, for gods sake. Unless Kaine is some kind of an idiot, I would think his actions are for the love of his daughter and thinking of her well being, and nothing to do with revenge or punishment of Terri. If he feels Terri, in his heart is guilty, IMO he doesn't give a rats behind how Terri feels, his only concern is his daughter and what's best for her.

the name of this thread is:

Terri Horman seeks visitation with baby. My responses are addressed to the rights of baby girl and Terri to visit one another. My questions are addressed to the opinions of many who feel Terri has no right to visit with her baby. moo nho

For now, I"m addressing the rights mom and child have to visit and the repercussions if visits are denied. TIA moo mho
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
304
Guests online
845
Total visitors
1,149

Forum statistics

Threads
625,921
Messages
18,514,053
Members
240,883
Latest member
elodia123
Back
Top