2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[GrainneDhu]

On the Monday after Kaine and her toddler had moved out, Terri stated:

"Everything's good," she said, giving a thumbs up. "We heard that
rumor. It's just a rumor that needs to be squelched. Everything's fine."
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_stepmom_terri_mo.html

If Terri is a truthful person, one has to seriously worry about her statement that "everything was good" after her toddler had been removed from her home for days. Is Terri a liar or was she delusional? Neither choices are positive qualities for a parent to possess.

Or is TMH like many people, with a strong inner taboo against airing dirty laundry in public?

Yes, she apparently spoke freely with people she thought were her friends about her perception of problems in her marriage. But talking to friends does not equal talking to some reporter who shows up at the front door; the first can easily fall within what many people consider to be not-public and the latter, almost everyone would consider public.

I know I would never dream of airing any marital or family problems I had with a reporter under those circumstances.

At that point, KH and Baby K had been gone since Saturday evening, approximately a day and a half. The TRO had not even been filed at that point. TMH may not have really understood what was going on and/or may have been trying to "think positive." The way many people believe DY is "thinking positive" by insisting that Kyron is still alive. Neither a lie nor a delusion.

We also have no idea what constituted normal behaviour in that marriage; there are certainly couples who flounce out of the house for a few days on a routine basis.

So I have no idea what exactly the context was from TMH's point of view. And that context makes all the difference in how serious the situation can look to one of the participants.

 

[Pensfan]

Or is TMH like many people, with a strong inner taboo against airing dirty laundry in public?

Yes, she apparently spoke freely with people she thought were her friends about her perception of problems in her marriage. But talking to friends does not equal talking to some reporter who shows up at the front door; the first can easily fall within what many people consider to be not-public and the latter, almost everyone would consider public.

I know I would never dream of airing any marital or family problems I had with a reporter under those circumstances.

At that point, KH and Baby K had been gone since Saturday evening, approximately a day and a half. The TRO had not even been filed at that point. TMH may not have really understood what was going on and/or may have been trying to "think positive." The way many people believe DY is "thinking positive" by insisting that Kyron is still alive. Neither a lie nor a delusion.

We also have no idea what constituted normal behaviour in that marriage; there are certainly couples who flounce out of the house for a few days on a routine basis.

So I have no idea what exactly the context was from TMH's point of view. And that context makes all the difference in how serious the situation can look to one of the participants.

Many people that are questioned by reporters just ignore them and don't answer their questions. Terri could have also ignored the questions by the reporter. It certainly sounds like you suggesting that Terri's "everything is good comment" was an example of narcissistic defense. This type of behavior is especially pervasive in narcissists and used to protect them from experiencing feelings of personal "injury".

 

[Jo in Calif]

That is correct, we do not know. We can only go by what we have heard. On all accounts, I have heard only that Terri was a good mother to her children, ALL three of them. The only one who ever said anything different was an implication by DY, which she later retracted.

The reason I say supervised, is that obviously there are some very serious "allegations" being made by Kaine, which he says is based on information from LE, though LE flat out denies that the information came from them. Nonetheless, serious allegations, therefore supervised visitation until those matters are cleared, IMO are the way to go, so that BabyK's needs are addressed. I would in no way condone the visitation, if, in fact, there were any signs of prior abuse of any of her children. JMO

IIRC the only LE agency that has flat denied information coming from them, as far as the allegations in the RO goes is MSCO, there were a lot of other agencies involved at that time, IIRC none of the other LE agencies have come out and denied the information came from them

 

[mmmagique]

That is correct, we do not know. We can only go by what we have heard. On all accounts, I have heard only that Terri was a good mother to her children, ALL three of them. The only one who ever said anything different was an implication by DY, which she later retracted.

The reason I say supervised, is that obviously there are some very serious "allegations" being made by Kaine, which he says is based on information from LE, though LE flat out denies that the information came from them. Nonetheless, serious allegations, therefore supervised visitation until those matters are cleared, IMO are the way to go, so that BabyK's needs are addressed. I would in no way condone the visitation, if, in fact, there were any signs of prior abuse of any of her children. JMO

There is also the quote from her lawyer that Terri is a de facto suspect in this case.

 

[NancyA]

There is also the quote from her lawyer that Terri is a de facto suspect in this case.

He is not saying HE suspects her, de facto means that even though LE have not 'officially' named her as a suspect they clearly do suspect her given that their entire investigation is focused on her.

As far as visitation is concerned, well I fail to see what harm supervised visits can do until such time as it is proved she is guilty of a crime or such visits prove to adversely affect Baby K.

 

[mmmagique]

There is also the quote from her lawyer that Terri is a de facto suspect in this case.

He is not saying HE suspects her, de facto means that even though LE have not 'officially' named her as a suspect they clearly do suspect her given that their entire investigation is focused on her.

As far as visitation is concerned, well I fail to see what harm supervised visits can do until such time as it is proved she is guilty of a crime or such visits prove to adversely affect Baby K.

Of course he's not saying he suspects her. He's saying she is the main suspect in this case. (even though LE has never named her a poi. I find that fascinating)

There are arguments both for and against supervised visitation. The only way I would agree to it were I in Kaine's shoes is if there was a GAL supervising in a secure place, AND Terri agreed to pay AT LEAST half the cost of the GAL.

 

[NancyA]

He is not saying HE suspects her, de facto means that even though LE have not 'officially' named her as a suspect they clearly do suspect her given that their entire investigation is focused on her.

As far as visitation is concerned, well I fail to see what harm supervised visits can do until such time as it is proved she is guilty of a crime or such visits prove to adversely affect Baby K.

Of course he's not saying he suspects her. He's saying she is the main suspect in this case. (even though LE has never named her a poi. I find that fascinating)

[/QUOTE]

Snipped with respect. Of course he's saying she's the main suspect because that is the logical conclusion he has drawn from LE's interest in her, nothing surprising in that, it's the conclusion I and many others have drawn too. JMO.

 

[NancyA]

Oops O/T seems there's something wrong with the quote function here.

 

[germaine]

@Nancy

Yep. I've been trying to quote one of yours and failing miserably. So I'll just ask here.

If TH is guilty, why iyo would supervised visits be more harmful after she's convicted and less so now?

 

[NancyA]

@germaine.

I don't know or think that they necessarily would be harmful. To be honest I wasn't thinking that far ahead. As has been pointed out before there has been no indication that she has ever harmed or intended to harm the baby so I guess they'll decide whether she gets visitation after/if she is convicted on the same basis they decide on visitation between any other inmate and their offspring.

 

[wenwe4]

@Nancy

Yep. I've been trying to quote one of yours and failing miserably. So I'll just ask here.

If TH is guilty, why iyo would supervised visits be more harmful after she's convicted and less so now?

Although the question was not directed at me, I would answer that in my opinion the "harm" would be violating the "innocent until proven guilty" part of our judicial system. I would have to err on the side of the child - as she has a "right" to maintain a relationship with her Mom, until such time it is "proven" otherwise harmful in such a manner that safeguards could still not ensure her health and well being.

 

[Adrienne37]

Again, JMO but baby K is so much better off without her mother right now. It has been said that she has received death threats so why in the world would you want to subject your baby daughter to that? That in and of itself is very disturbing to me not to mention all the other things that she is suspected of doing. I also have to wonder if Terri truly can take time to mother baby K considering that she seems to like to participate in "sexting" relationships with strange men.

 

[Billylee]

IIRC the only LE agency that has flat denied information coming from them, as far as the allegations in the RO goes is MSCO, there were a lot of other agencies involved at that time, IIRC none of the other LE agencies have come out and denied the information came from them

That is correct, NONE of the other LE agencies have either denied or taken credit for giving Kaine the information. We do not know where the information came from at this point.

 

[germaine]

Although the question was not directed at me, I would answer that in my opinion the "harm" would be violating the "innocent until proven guilty" part of our judicial system. I would have to error on the side of the child - as she has a "right" to maintain a relationship with her Mom, until such time it is "proven" otherwise harmful in such a manner that safeguards could still not ensure her health and well being.

I understand what you're saying but, unless I'm misunderstanding the burdens in the child custody context (and I very well may be), isn't the whole presumption of innocence thing by the boards b/c she's presumed guilty of the allegations in the R/O by not having contested it? And even if not, isn't the burden of overcoming any presumption significantly smaller in a civil case? And does it even apply? lol I think I need legal counsel to participate in this thread!

 

[Billylee]

There is also the quote from her lawyer that Terri is a de facto suspect in this case.

I may be wrong as the de facto definition has been discussed thoroughly on this board, but in the respect that Bunch (not Houze) used the de facto suspect term, I believe he was saying to the judge that she is being "treated" like a suspect, in reference to her constitutional rights being stepped upon. IANAL, so I'm probably wrong, but maybe someone can ask our lawyers, why Bunch used that term and what he was trying to convey to the judge.

 

[NancyA]

O/T again. Just want to thank grandmaj for 'fixing' all the messed up quotes.

 

[mmmagique]

Of course he's not saying he suspects her. He's saying she is the main suspect in this case. (even though LE has never named her a poi. I find that fascinating)

Snipped with respect. Of course he's saying she's the main suspect because that is the logical conclusion he has drawn from LE's interest in her, nothing surprising in that, it's the conclusion I and many others have drawn too. JMO.[/QUOTE]

The reason I find it so interesting is *most* attorneys do not go around calling their clients suspects until they are *officially* suspects. It's an interesting strategy.

 

[germaine]

That is correct, NONE of the other LE agencies have either denied or taken credit for giving Kaine the information. We do not know where the information came from at this point.

Personally, I've never agreed with the position I've seen taken that LE flat out denied giving the MFH information to KH.

But, even assuming that they MCSO did deny giving the info to KH, his lawyer stated that LE did give it to him. And she said it under oath in a sworn affidavit to the court, iirc. I don't think she was lying. And if she were, you'd think someone, like Houze or Bunch or LE itself, would have called her on it by now. It's all out there for public consumption. Now that I think about it, I think Rackner said as much on video to reporters outside the courtroom. It's no secret. So if she's lying, she'd be cooked by now, imo.

I've just convinced myself that there's no reasonable way that LE's statements distancing themselves from KH and DY's interview can be viewed as saying they didn't give the MFH plot info to KH and Rackner ha! :snooty:

jmoo

 

[redkatrampant]

Again, JMO but baby K is so much better off without her mother right now. It has been said that she has received death threats so why in the world would you want to subject your baby daughter to that? That in and of itself is very disturbing to me not to mention all the other things that she is suspected of doing. I also have to wonder if Terri truly can take time to mother baby K considering that she seems to like to participate in "sexting" relationships with strange men.

I am not a TH fan at all. I also don't think she should be unsupervised around Baby K, but I don't see how the "sexting " scandal- there was only one that we know of right?she was not "serial sexting"??-plays into her fitness as a mother. Maybe taken in context with everything else, yes,but not that alone.
MVHO

 

[Scamperoo]

I appreciate your perspective BillyLee-I think it is a case by case. We do not know what kind of quality of care was being given to Baby K in the 6-8 hours a day TH was alone with her child. I am not implying anything, we just do not know. We do not know if Kaine returned home at 3 everyday and took on her care and Kyron's care. For the rest of the night. We just have no idea.

So I think it is hard to say that every child will grieve at the loss of a parent under all circumstances even at a tender age.

I think you can say with a high degree of probability that almost all infants will be distressed at the loss of it's primary caregiver, basic survival instincts cause babies to imprint on the mother (primary care giver) this is normal, infants are hard wired this way.