2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[desquire]

I've got to say, I think folks here are just way off base in the amount of significance they attach to that "de facto suspect" comment and to TH's tactical decision to fight for custody through the divorce proceeding instead of the RO process. There's a whole lot of acrimony in this thread debating what are really non-issues.

 

[mmmagique]

I can only speak for myself, but I don't feel acrimonious. I just wanted to correct what seemed to be a misunderstanding of my words.
I spend too much time trying to piece logical, legible sentences together to have them misconstrued, so if someone does, I point out what I meant by what I said.
That logical and legible stuff can be a pita for me, so I like to make sure I'm understood! :crazy:

 

[stmarysmead]

Here's where I'm coming from.

Terri Horman finds herself to be the focus, fairly or not, of two crimes that are inherently abhorrent, but also devious.

LE has told Kaine that they believe that she not only tried to have him killed, but is responaible for the disappearance of his child, a boy she helped raise from infancy.

Now, Terri was not in the midst of an acrimonious divorce when this Murder for Hire was suggested. She was still supposedly in a normal marital relationship. When her husband leaves her after police tell him of their evidence (to which WE sleuthers are not privy)...she emails "Listen, I love you."

So this would have been a crime of great deviousness, not a crime of passion, but of careful cold-blooded planning.

This same undercurrent infects the disappearance of little Kyron. If he was made to vanish of the face of the earth, it was premeditated...planned...calculated.

It is the deviousness, the coldness..no, I'll call it..the EVIL...of the crimes of which Terri is suspected that make me deadset against her seeing that Baby. Please think about what kind of person is wired so they can excuse to themselves the taking of lives in cold calculation? What kind of person can sleep with her husband, and take hugs from a little boy who loves her...while she is putting the finishing touches on a violent end to that life?

My point about the "de facto" suspect...is that her own attorneys admit that the professionals investigating this case...the guys WHO KNOW THE EVIDENCE...think Terri is the person behind these crimes. Her husband has been told the reasons LE believes Terri is behind these crimes...and he immediately left and filed an RO to protect his only surviving child from her.

I have no problems with Terri's rights. One of her rights is to refuse to answer questions that might "incriminate her."
But, for the purpose of our discussion here...Facebook pictues do not trump LE...and therefore, since Terri has chosen not to answer questions or fight...IMO...she has given me no reason to doubt LE's opinion that she is not only behind these crimes...but the kind of cold blooded individual who can scheme , plot, and contemplate a child's murder...all the while his little face smiles into the camera at her.

These crimes are chilling. If there is any chance she is this type of evil...whyever would anyone let her near Baby K. Baby K's first "right" is to be safe...and mentally healthy.

I don't know how you would describe a woman who could calculate and plan and scheme to kill a little boy who loves her...but IMO, whatever you call her...she is not safe to be around.

In our discussion here, we can not and do not assume police corruption...so I do not. There is no evidence of that anyway. I tend to trust professionals unless I have strong reason not to. If my doctor tells me after his long, detailed exam and tests, that he has a fairly certain diagnoses, I do not let emotion or opinions on Internet "health" websites...make me deviate from what he tells me...because my health is in jeopardy.

I want to be sure Baby K is not in jeopardy. That she was never hurt before...doesn't work...because we are dealing with crimes of great deviousness....and great coldness.

 

[Trident]

Well, apparently she engaged in similar behavior with the landscaper whom she tried to hire to kill her husband as well as her husband's high school friend so who's to say that she doesn't partake in that activity very frequently? And no, I will admit that by itself would hardly disqualify her from having visitation with her daughter but it speaks to character and morals IMO, of which, again IMO, she has absolutely none.

Well, here we go again - "Well, apparently she engaged in similar behavior with the landscaper whom she tried to hire to kill her husband . . ."

"Apparently," without any proof, or a clarifying statement from LE means what? It means nothing as far as I'm concerned. We don't even know the extent of the "sexting" to the high school "friend". One man's may be nothing more than we see on any Florida beach and less than you see on the Riviera. None of this has anything to do with TH's fitness as a parent.

As for character and morals, I don't know the woman, so I cannot judge them any more than I judge KH's, DY's, or TY's character and morals. Few of us here KNOW these people, how can we judge?

 

[Trt]

According to page 12 of the attached PDF file, a domestic relations order can only supercede a FAPA RO if the two cases have been combined and if the nonmoving party has been notified. Has this happened? Are we certain that this "backdoor"(my opinion) motion is even able to supercede the order already in place? Jmo

http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/FAPA_Benchguide_4-24-06.pdf

 

[mmmagique]

Well, here we go again - "Well, apparently she engaged in similar behavior with the landscaper whom she tried to hire to kill her husband . . ."

"Apparently," without any proof, or a clarifying statement from LE means what? It means nothing as far as I'm concerned. We don't even know the extent of the "sexting" to the high school "friend". One man's may be nothing more than we see on any Florida beach and less than you see on the Riviera. None of this has anything to do with TH's fitness as a parent.

As for character and morals, I don't know the woman, so I cannot judge them any more than I judge KH's, DY's, or TY's character and morals. Few of us here KNOW these people, how can we judge?

BBM

By the things that have been said and done, AND by the things that have NOT been said and done.

We *all* make judgements every day. Usually they're inconsequential, sometimes they're huge, like when Tricia met up with Bundy, and was able to discern (judge) that it would be a VERY BAD idea to go anywhere with that guy.

 

[Trident]

She very certainly had the opportunity to answer the allegations her husband brought to the court. She chose to remain silent, as was her right.

BBM - "...as we her right". Excellent point, I totally agree.

 

[Trident]

BBM

By the things that have been said and done, AND by the things that have NOT been said and done.

We *all* make judgements every day. Usually they're inconsequential, sometimes they're huge, like when Tricia met up with Bundy, and was able to discern (judge) that it would be a VERY BAD idea to go anywhere with that guy.

??? I'm dense, I admit it, but what does Tricia meeting up with Bundy have to do with TH's character and morals? I've never read Tricia met up with Bundy, a link would be nice, but if she did, she met him in person, face to face.. Have the majority of us met TH, KH, DY, or TY in person, face to face? I know I haven't.

 

[mmmagique]

??? I'm dense, I admit it, but what does Tricia meeting up with Bundy have to do with TH's character and morals? I've never read Tricia met up with Bundy, a link would be nice, but if she did, she met him in person, face to face.. Have the majority of us met TH, KH, DY, or TY in person, face to face? I know I haven't.

I will attempt to find the link.

The point I was making was not that we all meet up with everyone face to face, but that we all make judgements every single day.

I have never met any of the presidents or presidential wannabe's I have voted (or not voted) for, but I was able to make a judgement by what was said and what was not said. In the same way Tricia was able to make a judgement call that saved her life.

If we had to meet someone face to face to have opinions and make judgements, we'd all be leading very busy lives!

 

[believe09]

This is directly from Kaine Horman's petition for dissolution:

12.

Petitioner should be awarded sole custody of the child. Petitioner is a fit and proper person to have sole custody of the minor child subject to a parenting plan based on the child's best interest.


http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib...148787/SharpNews_koin_com_20100629_114449.pdf


Thus, even Kaine Horman himself, agrees that in the interest of his own children, perhaps a parenting plan might be okay. Now, this is an agreement he goes into when he has already been made aware of whatever he was made aware of by whichever LE told him there was a MFHP and that TH was most likely involved in Kyron's disappearance. So, if it is okay with him that perhaps Terri Horman can be part of the parenting plan, who else is to judge?

Because he has conditions he wants met and Bunch apparently is not interested in meeting them. They cannot come to an agreement either on the kind of parenting time that will be allowed or the structure of the parenting time or the circumstances under which the parenting time will occur. Hence the need for the judge. I believe, anyway.

 

[believe09]

Well, here we go again - "Well, apparently she engaged in similar behavior with the landscaper whom she tried to hire to kill her husband . . ."

"Apparently," without any proof, or a clarifying statement from LE means what? It means nothing as far as I'm concerned. We don't even know the extent of the "sexting" to the high school "friend". One man's may be nothing more than we see on any Florida beach and less than you see on the Riviera. None of this has anything to do with TH's fitness as a parent.

As for character and morals, I don't know the woman, so I cannot judge them any more than I judge KH's, DY's, or TY's character and morals. Few of us here KNOW these people, how can we judge?

BBM-no proof was needed as she conceded the statement when she did not contest the RO within 30 days. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

 

[Adrienne37]

Well, here we go again - "Well, apparently she engaged in similar behavior with the landscaper whom she tried to hire to kill her husband . . ."

"Apparently," without any proof, or a clarifying statement from LE means what? It means nothing as far as I'm concerned. We don't even know the extent of the "sexting" to the high school "friend". One man's may be nothing more than we see on any Florida beach and less than you see on the Riviera. None of this has anything to do with TH's fitness as a parent.

As for character and morals, I don't know the woman, so I cannot judge them any more than I judge KH's, DY's, or TY's character and morals. Few of us here KNOW these people, how can we judge?

Quite frankly, I'm very thankful that I haven't had the opportunity meet Terri Horman. I will consider that a blessing until the day I die. JMO.

 

[Trident]

Quite frankly, I'm very thankful that I haven't had the opportunity meet Terri Horman. I will consider that a blessing until the day I die. JMO.

Actually, I'd like to hear her voice and observe her body language. It might give me a better perspective on things. I've already observed KH, DY, and TY, and formed my opinion on them. I would really like to have a glimpse of the real TH we might not be hearing about.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Actually, I'd like to hear her voice and observe her body language. It might give me a better perspective on things. I've already observed KH, DY, and TY, and formed my opinion on them. I would really like to have a glimpse of the real TH we might not be hearing about.

You can see her body language in the early footage from the first days of the Kyron case. The fact that she never spoke up about Kyron even after her husband left her speaks volumes to me! Silence is deafening at times.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lhpnYOpF58&feature=related[/ame]​

 

[believe09]

The conversation regarding Body Language may be O/T and if it is to this thread, I apologize. DY seems rigid when TH puts her arm around her and clings to her. Once KH takes the podium TH is left alone to hug herself. DY does not appear to even acknowledge her. DY seems to be crying, TH seems to me, JMO, to be not crying but wiping her face.

I am not seeing what I want to see-I was a fence sitter for a long time until the RO was not contested. This solidified things for me whether or not TH was exercising her legal right. Just my opinion. And it is my opinion that TH is acting a role in the clipped video.

 

[Billylee]

Because he has conditions he wants met and Bunch apparently is not interested in meeting them. They cannot come to an agreement either on the kind of parenting time that will be allowed or the structure of the parenting time or the circumstances under which the parenting time will occur. Hence the need for the judge. I believe, anyway.

LOL of course that's why they're going before a judge, and that judge will consider all the allegations and will be able to find out what we cannot as to their validity. However, that's not my point.

My point is EVEN after Kaine knew of these "allegations" and based his RO on them, he himself knows there would be a parenting agreement. IOW, when he filed for the disso, he obviously believed that TH would be allowed to see their children. If, when he filed the disso, he NEVER wanted Terri to see their children again, I believe he would have stipulated as such. IOW, he has no fear that their will be a parenting agreement between himself and Terri and that Terri will be spending time with the children. So should anyone else have that fear?

FWIW, I still think the allegations made in the RO were trumped up by LE and KH to try to get Terri to violate her constitutional rights. JMHO, and all that jazz and we shall see. I have faith the judge will do the right thing.

 

[believe09]

LOL of course that's why they're going before a judge, and that judge will consider all the allegations and will be able to find out what we cannot as to their validity. However, that's not my point.

My point is EVEN after Kaine knew of these "allegations" and based his RO on them, he himself knows there would be a parenting agreement. IOW, when he filed for the disso, he obviously believed that TH would be allowed to see their children. If, when he filed the disso, he NEVER wanted Terri to see their children again, I believe he would have stipulated as such. IOW, he has no fear that their will be a parenting agreement between himself and Terri and that Terri will be spending time with the children. So should anyone else have that fear?

FWIW, I still think the allegations made in the RO were trumped up by LE and KH to try to get Terri to violate her constitutional rights. JMHO, and all that jazz and we shall see. I have faith the judge will do the right thing.

I dont know if I see it the same way although I appreciate your perspective. I think it was standard lanquage. SOP.

 

[Billylee]

And I appreciate your opinions also. I want the best for the children, and I want Kyron to come home. As I said, it is up to the judge now to decide whether or not TH will have visitation rights, and I have no doubt he will have the child's best interest in mind when he does so, we will all just have to wait and see. This thread is kinda like "the waiting room" for the decision to come down. I hope the decision is made soon.

 

[BeanE]

Well, here we go again - "Well, apparently she engaged in similar behavior with the landscaper whom she tried to hire to kill her husband . . ."

"Apparently," without any proof, or a clarifying statement from LE means what? It means nothing as far as I'm concerned. We don't even know the extent of the "sexting" to the high school "friend". One man's may be nothing more than we see on any Florida beach and less than you see on the Riviera. None of this has anything to do with TH's fitness as a parent.

As for character and morals, I don't know the woman, so I cannot judge them any more than I judge KH's, DY's, or TY's character and morals. Few of us here KNOW these people, how can we judge?

BBM-no proof was needed as she conceded the statement when she did not contest the RO within 30 days. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

I believe you're mistaken, believe09. IANAL, but here is my understanding:

- The sexting with Cook, and the personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures with the landscaper, were part of the contempt motion, not the restraining order.

Here's the contempt motion document: http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/b/2/c/b2c0c26c-4221-4fde-a923-fa5788b1ad69/Horman.pdf

Here's the restraining order document: http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/e/1/2/e12f2287-ce0b-48e0-8d85-e3955216ae1b/FULLORDER.pdf

- The reason that's important to note is because it was the restraining order that Terri did not contest.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyrons_stepmom_wont_contest_he.html

- Terri did not decline to contest the contempt motion, but in fact, there was a hearing scheduled for it. Kaine, however, dropped the contempt motion, and that is why that hearing did not take place - not because of any action on Terri's part.

http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Kaine-tells-KGW-We-need-to-get-this-wrapped-up-102674464.html

- Be sure to note the dates on the various actions - at the time Terri declined to contest the restraining order, she was going forward with the hearing on the contempt motion. In fact, it stood that way for some time - until Kaine dropped the contempt motion.

- Additionally, there is a difference between not contesting a restraining order - a civil action - and a criminal case in which one has actually been charged with a crime, and has the options of pleading guilty, or pleading no contest.

Further, even pleading no contest in a criminal matter in which one has actually been charged, is not an admission of guilt. That's why there is pleading guilty in which one admits guilt and, separately, pleading no contest in which one does not admit guilt.

But... we don't have a criminal case here. No trial, no charges, no arrests - LE has not even named a suspect or POI. Indeed, we have no criminal matters here yet. We're in civil court, dealing with civil matters, at this time.

 

[believe09]

Thanks Bean-but I was referring to the statement Kaine made to obtain the restraining order:
Describe the Incident of Abuse:
"I believe the respondent is responsible for the disappearance of my son who has been missing since June 4th 2010. I also recently learned that the respondent attempted to hire someone to murder me. The police have provided me with probable cause to believe the above two statement to be true."

Regarding the parenting time requested in the RO: KH both x's and initials no parenting time.

ETA: So if she did not contest the RO, I would think she is conceding to this statement as a statement of fact.