2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[BeanE]

I'm not so sure. Oregon has a Son of Sam law of sorts. I don't see how Terri could benefit from her crime, if she is guilty. I think this deserves a thread of its own. How do Son of Sam laws work? Could she sell the story up front as long as she is not yet charged? What happens if she is found guilty later? Does she have to pay the money she made off the story to the victims?

The same way Casey Anthony did. Son of Sam doesn't come into play until after conviction. That takes arrest, charging, trial, found guilty. Nobody's even been named a POI yet. All deals are open.

 

[Kat010]

Do not confuse what the parents are doing with what the lawyers are doing. Kaine's attorney probably came up with this all by her brilliant self and Kaine has probably spent all of 30 minutes of his life on the issue.

Gwen, sorry, I disagree. Throughout this case it's been obvious that Kaine selects the bus, modifies the bus to his demands, paints the bus his colors, and drives the bus. I think he's driving this.

And if he can't afford to support himself and children on his salary, when before he could support 3 kids, wife, and self, then perhaps that baby needs to be in a more stable, financially and otherwise, environment.

He's opened a can of worms here. So, if say, her parents gave her the $, and he claims that he's entitled to know where it came from, and entitled to half of it, then voila! He's put his assets on the "half is mine" chopping block, too.

He owns the house in his own name, but Terri took care of it (and did a good job from the photos on her FB) and therefore contributed not only to its maintenance but also to its increased value, so she's entitled to the fruits of her labor, some attorney could argue. In fact, if someone wanted to play KH's game, they could file with the court for a full accounting of his monies--source and where they'rer spent.

In fact, an attorney could also approach the court and given the circumstances ask that a court-appointed auditor be appointed to examine both parties' finances, and a court-appointed trustee to administer use of those funds. It could make for an exciting court session!

If I were that attorney, I'd have another attorney file an amicus curiae brief, from the family law/child protection side of things. Since the monies and sources thereof are in dispute, and KH has alleged in a court document--unless he perjured himself--that he can't afford to care for his child, then someone needs to have overview and partial control of funds on behalf of the minor child, Baby K.

In fact, court-appointed auditor and trustee should be given powers back to the day Kyron disappeared, IMHO. Given KH's allegation of his lack of financial capability to care for his child, someone needs to look after the interests of that child and ensure that monies are accounted for and spent with her best interests at heart.

However, I'm wondering if TH's attorney is sly enough to just sit and wait, and let KH spin out this and that. What kH continues to do is to reveal more of himself, and he also is spinning out information and actions that could be very useful in various courts.

What would be interesting--a court-appointed auditor who found that KH's retirement, benefits, salary made him capable of supporting his child (children), but he submitted a court proffer that was, in essence, a lie.That would really set off sparks.

Right now, the quieter TH and her side keep, the smarter her lawyer looks. And the more she listens to him and stays out of the media, the smarter she looks for listening to her attorney, IMHO. Now, I'm stretching it to call TH "smart", because (personal opinion here) she married KH, the third of three mates that just weren't suitable, and she also married knowing that only he owned the marital home. Ahem.

Sorry for the length, but this is a complicated issue, and I think it has potential repercussions far beyond "I hate TH, yeaaa Kaine!" and the personality issues. At present, TH has not been charged with a crime, so she & KH are equal in terms of marital assets, most especially *his* as he has the high-paying job.

Meanwhile, an aside--the MFH plot. A court-ordered and controlled audit could be extended to later find out if TH suddenly spent a lot of $ about the time the landscaper alleges the plot (if the cops don't already have that info, which they should have by this point). And, how do we know that late appearance of the landscaper wasn't an appearance in this made-for-TV mess, paid for by someone who wanted to discredit TH? Just spitballin' it.

Meanwhile, how about Kyron? How about a plea from parents on *his* behalf? People have raged about TH being concerned about $ when she was tossed out of her home with no job, etc., well sauce/goose/gander. Now KH is the one concerned about $. Sauce/goose/gander.

At this point, none of them are earning any blue ribbons, IMHO. Poor Kyron.

 

[debirlfan]

She can't help it.. It's all part of a narcissistic psyche.. She can't resist talking about herself...In her mind It is all about her..Who knows, she may have even exaggerated the amount in writing...JMO

Has anyone considered that perhaps she never paid the lawyer at all - that he might have taken the case pro bono (sp?) after all?

She might have told parents/friends/etc that she needed money for the lawyer - and then given some or all of that money to an accomplice or to someone who is holding Kyron for her.

If the husband suspected it, it would certainly be a good reason to "follow the money."

 

[Calliope]

I get this a lot from my new clients. They think who filed first is important or who did what to cause the divorce is important in support and fees decisions. OR is a no fault state, so it is not important.
Although I do believe she got the money from family, that has not yet been determined.
Attorneys must be careful in what they file and how they do it because if they are found to have "harassed" the other party, they can be forced to pay sanctions/penalties in the form of attorney's fees to the person they harassed. This is true in OR from what I have reviewed. We'll see if the court considers it harassment or not. My bet? Kaine's attorneys are good. They know what they are doing and are working in concert with detectives and possibly the DA. There will be no award of sanctions against Kaine. IMO.

bbm

First of all, I wonder if his civil attorney has a criminal defense attorney advising her (that could explain the high fee someone referred to in another post).

Second, again this goes to my question in my first post here. In this case, it's obvious the lines between civil and criminal actions are being blurred. IANAL, but it seems to me Houze can beat this motion back without blinking an eye.

 

[gardeness]

I get this a lot from my new clients. They think who filed first is important or who did what to cause the divorce is important in support and fees decisions. OR is a no fault state, so it is not important.
Although I do believe she got the money from family, that has not yet been determined.
Attorneys must be careful in what they file and how they do it because if they are found to have "harassed" the other party, they can be forced to pay sanctions/penalties in the form of attorney's fees to the person they harassed. This is true in OR from what I have reviewed. We'll see if the court considers it harassment or not. My bet? Kaine's attorneys are good. They know what they are doing and are working in concert with detectives and possibly the DA. There will be no award of sanctions against Kaine. IMO.

Thanks for this. It just seems like Kaine and his attorney are going beyond what is reasonable, IMO. He wanted and filed for divorce, he should pay for his attorney. Does anyone know if Terri file a counter-claim, demanding he pay for her divorce attorney? I am curious, since she has no income... If she didn't, it's very ironic, given her circumstances...

 

[Calliope]

Has anyone considered that perhaps she never paid the lawyer at all - that he might have taken the case pro bono (sp?) after all?

She might have told parents/friends/etc that she needed money for the lawyer - and then given some or all of that money to an accomplice or to someone who is holding Kyron for her.

If the husband suspected it, it would certainly be a good reason to "follow the money."

I have to wonder if this "evidence" his attorney has is merely Terri telling someone how much Houze charges. Did she actually state, "I gave Houze $350,000" ?

 

[Calliope]

He is representing her in the civil action.

In the divorce? I don't think so.

He answered the contempt charge regarding the RO and has worked on that end of things from what I can see, but as far as the divorce there's another attorney (Bunch, I think is his name).

 

[gitana1]

Respectfully snipped by me.

I understand about one party paying the other's attorney fees, depending on the situation. And, from what I understand from the court filing, he is not trying to claim this $ as a marital asset and only wants half of it for his attorney's fees. Am I correct in this?

It's seems that 175k to pay an attorney to represent him in the RO and divorce is more than a bit excessive. JMO.

It seems to me that his motion is both a request that she pay his fees and a request for distribution of half of what she has if it is considered a marital asset. But, I have not read the motion, just the reports.
175k is a heck of a lot for fees in a disso. Ridiculously large, unless you're talking about millionaires.

 

[Calliope]

Gwen, sorry, I disagree. Throughout this case it's been obvious that Kaine selects the bus, modifies the bus to his demands, paints the bus his colors, and drives the bus. I think he's driving this.

And if he can't afford to support himself and children on his salary, when before he could support 3 kids, wife, and self, then perhaps that baby needs to be in a more stable, financially and otherwise, environment.

He's opened a can of worms here. So, if say, her parents gave her the $, and he claims that he's entitled to know where it came from, and entitled to half of it, then voila! He's put his assets on the "half is mine" chopping block, too.

He owns the house in his own name, but Terri took care of it (and did a good job from the photos on her FB) and therefore contributed not only to its maintenance but also to its increased value, so she's entitled to the fruits of her labor, some attorney could argue. In fact, if someone wanted to play KH's game, they could file with the court for a full accounting of his monies--source and where they'rer spent.

In fact, an attorney could also approach the court and given the circumstances ask that a court-appointed auditor be appointed to examine both parties' finances, and a court-appointed trustee to administer use of those funds. It could make for an exciting court session!

If I were that attorney, I'd have another attorney file an amicus curiae brief, from the family law/child protection side of things. Since the monies and sources thereof are in dispute, and KH has alleged in a court document--unless he perjured himself--that he can't afford to care for his child, then someone needs to have overview and partial control of funds on behalf of the minor child, Baby K.

In fact, court-appointed auditor and trustee should be given powers back to the day Kyron disappeared, IMHO. Given KH's allegation of his lack of financial capability to care for his child, someone needs to look after the interests of that child and ensure that monies are accounted for and spent with her best interests at heart.

However, I'm wondering if TH's attorney is sly enough to just sit and wait, and let KH spin out this and that. What kH continues to do is to reveal more of himself, and he also is spinning out information and actions that could be very useful in various courts.

What would be interesting--a court-appointed auditor who found that KH's retirement, benefits, salary made him capable of supporting his child (children), but he submitted a court proffer that was, in essence, a lie.That would really set off sparks.

Right now, the quieter TH and her side keep, the smarter her lawyer looks. And the more she listens to him and stays out of the media, the smarter she looks for listening to her attorney, IMHO. Now, I'm stretching it to call TH "smart", because (personal opinion here) she married KH, the third of three mates that just weren't suitable, and she also married knowing that only he owned the marital home. Ahem.

Sorry for the length, but this is a complicated issue, and I think it has potential repercussions far beyond "I hate TH, yeaaa Kaine!" and the personality issues. At present, TH has not been charged with a crime, so she & KH are equal in terms of marital assets, most especially *his* as he has the high-paying job.

Meanwhile, an aside--the MFH plot. A court-ordered and controlled audit could be extended to later find out if TH suddenly spent a lot of $ about the time the landscaper alleges the plot (if the cops don't already have that info, which they should have by this point). And, how do we know that late appearance of the landscaper wasn't an appearance in this made-for-TV mess, paid for by someone who wanted to discredit TH? Just spitballin' it.

Meanwhile, how about Kyron? How about a plea from parents on *his* behalf? People have raged about TH being concerned about $ when she was tossed out of her home with no job, etc., well sauce/goose/gander. Now KH is the one concerned about $. Sauce/goose/gander.

At this point, none of them are earning any blue ribbons, IMHO. Poor Kyron.

Thanks isn't enough.

Excellent post.

 

[gitana1]

Gwen, sorry, I disagree. Throughout this case it's been obvious that Kaine selects the bus, modifies the bus to his demands, paints the bus his colors, and drives the bus. I think he's driving this.

I disagree. I think he's got great legal advice and he's following it.

And if he can't afford to support himself and children on his salary, when before he could support 3 kids, wife, and self, then perhaps that baby needs to be in a more stable, financially and otherwise, environment.

Respectfully, I don't think that's very fair. First, his child is missing and he has not been able to work consistently. Second, he is obviously using the disso and RO actions to also help find his child. It seems clear that he is saying that the attorney's fees this endeavor has caused him to incur leave little room for the kind of life he was previously able to provide his children, before his child went missing and he had to mount a campaign to find him.

He's opened a can of worms here. So, if say, her parents gave her the $, and he claims that he's entitled to know where it came from, and entitled to half of it, then voila! He's put his assets on the "half is mine" chopping block, too.

Generally, half the marital property is what is awarded to each party. OR is not a community property state (a 50/50 state) but that is likely what generally happens there. He is simply saying that if she took out a loan or something that is considered a marital liability that he would be liable for, he is entitled to half. And he would be.

He owns the house in his own name, but Terri took care of it (and did a good job from the photos on her FB) and therefore contributed not only to its maintenance but also to its increased value, so she's entitled to the fruits of her labor, some attorney could argue. In fact, if someone wanted to play KH's game, they could file with the court for a full accounting of his monies--source and where they'rer spent.

In fact, an attorney could also approach the court and given the circumstances ask that a court-appointed auditor be appointed to examine both parties' finances, and a court-appointed trustee to administer use of those funds. It could make for an exciting court session!

If I were that attorney, I'd have another attorney file an amicus curiae brief, from the family law/child protection side of things. Since the monies and sources thereof are in dispute, and KH has alleged in a court document--unless he perjured himself--that he can't afford to care for his child, then someone needs to have overview and partial control of funds on behalf of the minor child, Baby K.

He did not say that. He said he cannot keep up with the legal costs and other financial obligations for the children and himself. There is nothing in what he has stated that shows he is unable to properly care for his kids.

In fact, court-appointed auditor and trustee should be given powers back to the day Kyron disappeared, IMHO. Given KH's allegation of his lack of financial capability to care for his child, someone needs to look after the interests of that child and ensure that monies are accounted for and spent with her best interests at heart.

However, I'm wondering if TH's attorney is sly enough to just sit and wait, and let KH spin out this and that. What kH continues to do is to reveal more of himself, and he also is spinning out information and actions that could be very useful in various courts.

What would be interesting--a court-appointed auditor who found that KH's retirement, benefits, salary made him capable of supporting his child (children), but he submitted a court proffer that was, in essence, a lie.That would really set off sparks.

Right now, the quieter TH and her side keep, the smarter her lawyer looks. And the more she listens to him and stays out of the media, the smarter she looks for listening to her attorney, IMHO. Now, I'm stretching it to call TH "smart", because (personal opinion here) she married KH, the third of three mates that just weren't suitable, and she also married knowing that only he owned the marital home. Ahem.

Sorry for the length, but this is a complicated issue, and I think it has potential repercussions far beyond "I hate TH, yeaaa Kaine!" and the personality issues. At present, TH has not been charged with a crime, so she & KH are equal in terms of marital assets, most especially *his* as he has the high-paying job.

Meanwhile, an aside--the MFH plot. A court-ordered and controlled audit could be extended to later find out if TH suddenly spent a lot of $ about the time the landscaper alleges the plot (if the cops don't already have that info, which they should have by this point). And, how do we know that late appearance of the landscaper wasn't an appearance in this made-for-TV mess, paid for by someone who wanted to discredit TH? Just spitballin' it.

Meanwhile, how about Kyron? How about a plea from parents on *his* behalf? People have raged about TH being concerned about $ when she was tossed out of her home with no job, etc., well sauce/goose/gander. Now KH is the one concerned about $. Sauce/goose/gander.

At this point, none of them are earning any blue ribbons, IMHO. Poor Kyron.

Blue font is my response.

ETA, the blue font did not show up so I changed it to red.

 

[ami]

Gwen, sorry, I disagree. Throughout this case it's been obvious that Kaine selects the bus, modifies the bus to his demands, paints the bus his colors, and drives the bus. I think he's driving this.

snipped...

I find it hard bordering on impossible to believe that in the middle of hours per day of briefings by LE, looking for his son, grieving for his son, caring for his baby daughter and trying to work at least part of his job, that Kaine is sorting through financial details and telling his divorce attorney what to do. I don't buy it.

 

[LadyL]

Gwen, sorry, I disagree. Throughout this case it's been obvious that Kaine selects the bus, modifies the bus to his demands, paints the bus his colors, and drives the bus. I think he's driving this.

And if he can't afford to support himself and children on his salary, when before he could support 3 kids, wife, and self, then perhaps that baby needs to be in a more stable, financially and otherwise, environment.

He's opened a can of worms here. So, if say, her parents gave her the $, and he claims that he's entitled to know where it came from, and entitled to half of it, then voila! He's put his assets on the "half is mine" chopping block, too.

He owns the house in his own name, but Terri took care of it (and did a good job from the photos on her FB) and therefore contributed not only to its maintenance but also to its increased value, so she's entitled to the fruits of her labor, some attorney could argue. In fact, if someone wanted to play KH's game, they could file with the court for a full accounting of his monies--source and where they'rer spent.

In fact, an attorney could also approach the court and given the circumstances ask that a court-appointed auditor be appointed to examine both parties' finances, and a court-appointed trustee to administer use of those funds. It could make for an exciting court session!

If I were that attorney, I'd have another attorney file an amicus curiae brief, from the family law/child protection side of things. Since the monies and sources thereof are in dispute, and KH has alleged in a court document--unless he perjured himself--that he can't afford to care for his child, then someone needs to have overview and partial control of funds on behalf of the minor child, Baby K.

In fact, court-appointed auditor and trustee should be given powers back to the day Kyron disappeared, IMHO. Given KH's allegation of his lack of financial capability to care for his child, someone needs to look after the interests of that child and ensure that monies are accounted for and spent with her best interests at heart.

However, I'm wondering if TH's attorney is sly enough to just sit and wait, and let KH spin out this and that. What kH continues to do is to reveal more of himself, and he also is spinning out information and actions that could be very useful in various courts.

What would be interesting--a court-appointed auditor who found that KH's retirement, benefits, salary made him capable of supporting his child (children), but he submitted a court proffer that was, in essence, a lie.That would really set off sparks.

Right now, the quieter TH and her side keep, the smarter her lawyer looks. And the more she listens to him and stays out of the media, the smarter she looks for listening to her attorney, IMHO. Now, I'm stretching it to call TH "smart", because (personal opinion here) she married KH, the third of three mates that just weren't suitable, and she also married knowing that only he owned the marital home. Ahem.

Sorry for the length, but this is a complicated issue, and I think it has potential repercussions far beyond "I hate TH, yeaaa Kaine!" and the personality issues. At present, TH has not been charged with a crime, so she & KH are equal in terms of marital assets, most especially *his* as he has the high-paying job.

Meanwhile, an aside--the MFH plot. A court-ordered and controlled audit could be extended to later find out if TH suddenly spent a lot of $ about the time the landscaper alleges the plot (if the cops don't already have that info, which they should have by this point). And, how do we know that late appearance of the landscaper wasn't an appearance in this made-for-TV mess, paid for by someone who wanted to discredit TH? Just spitballin' it.

Meanwhile, how about Kyron? How about a plea from parents on *his* behalf? People have raged about TH being concerned about $ when she was tossed out of her home with no job, etc., well sauce/goose/gander. Now KH is the one concerned about $. Sauce/goose/gander.

At this point, none of them are earning any blue ribbons, IMHO. Poor Kyron.

[bbm]

he hasn't been able to work f/t since his son went missing so I can see why his funds might be low
in addition to that, he probably had to pay out of pocket for a lot of expenses that he otherwise wouldn't have had had he been able to live in his own home
he also (presumably) paid the mortgage and utility bills while TH & her parents stayed in the house

he's entitled to know where the money came from and if she hid assets while living on his dime; he's also entitled to know if he will be liable for any loan(s) she took out

if it's a gift from her parents, then he won't be on the line for it but I can tell ya I'd be as annoyed as all get-out to discover she & others were living rent and bill free off of me when they actually had access to a secret fund of money

MOO

 

[mysticrose]

Heck Terri could have a really good friend that gave her that money or she has holed it up somewhere for awhile...I have met people who do not use banks, they stash their money in their homes and quite often have large sums of money, nothing to the tune of $350,000 at least not to my knowledge ..lol

They should follow the money.....

 

[wondering1]

Maybe he also wants to know if TH had sufficient assets he was unaware of to have paid a LS in an MFH scheme. I suppose one of the questions in that investigation is whether she had the ability to carry out the alleged plan. jms

 

[xin]

Houze's basic retainer fee was said to be $250,000. Based on the intricacies of this case and the amount of time and resources that will be necessary to successfully represent Terri, Mr. Houze probably increased the retainer fee. jmo

Maybe added 100 grand for public relations firm, and for costs (private investigators, filings, all projected out-of-pocket expenses)--I am not surprised at all by this--the fee, that should could get her hands on it, all that. Totally expected. The fee is a million, is my guess, and this is the first third.


imo

 

[mysticrose]

Maybe he also wants to know if TH had sufficient assets he was unaware of to have paid a LS in an MFH scheme. I suppose one of the questions in that investigation is whether she had the ability to carry out the alleged plan. jms

I agree I think knowledge of where the money came from could help the criminal investigation part about the MFH, because it could show like you said that she had the ability to carry it out ....

 

[Herding Cats]

Gwen, sorry, I disagree. Throughout this case it's been obvious that Kaine selects the bus, modifies the bus to his demands, paints the bus his colors, and drives the bus. I think he's driving this.

And if he can't afford to support himself and children on his salary, when before he could support 3 kids, wife, and self, then perhaps that baby needs to be in a more stable, financially and otherwise, environment.

He's opened a can of worms here. So, if say, her parents gave her the $, and he claims that he's entitled to know where it came from, and entitled to half of it, then voila! He's put his assets on the "half is mine" chopping block, too.

He owns the house in his own name, but Terri took care of it (and did a good job from the photos on her FB) and therefore contributed not only to its maintenance but also to its increased value, so she's entitled to the fruits of her labor, some attorney could argue. In fact, if someone wanted to play KH's game, they could file with the court for a full accounting of his monies--source and where they'rer spent.

In fact, an attorney could also approach the court and given the circumstances ask that a court-appointed auditor be appointed to examine both parties' finances, and a court-appointed trustee to administer use of those funds. It could make for an exciting court session!

If I were that attorney, I'd have another attorney file an amicus curiae brief, from the family law/child protection side of things. Since the monies and sources thereof are in dispute, and KH has alleged in a court document--unless he perjured himself--that he can't afford to care for his child, then someone needs to have overview and partial control of funds on behalf of the minor child, Baby K.

In fact, court-appointed auditor and trustee should be given powers back to the day Kyron disappeared, IMHO. Given KH's allegation of his lack of financial capability to care for his child, someone needs to look after the interests of that child and ensure that monies are accounted for and spent with her best interests at heart.

However, I'm wondering if TH's attorney is sly enough to just sit and wait, and let KH spin out this and that. What kH continues to do is to reveal more of himself, and he also is spinning out information and actions that could be very useful in various courts.

What would be interesting--a court-appointed auditor who found that KH's retirement, benefits, salary made him capable of supporting his child (children), but he submitted a court proffer that was, in essence, a lie.That would really set off sparks.

Right now, the quieter TH and her side keep, the smarter her lawyer looks. And the more she listens to him and stays out of the media, the smarter she looks for listening to her attorney, IMHO. Now, I'm stretching it to call TH "smart", because (personal opinion here) she married KH, the third of three mates that just weren't suitable, and she also married knowing that only he owned the marital home. Ahem.

Sorry for the length, but this is a complicated issue, and I think it has potential repercussions far beyond "I hate TH, yeaaa Kaine!" and the personality issues. At present, TH has not been charged with a crime, so she & KH are equal in terms of marital assets, most especially *his* as he has the high-paying job.

Meanwhile, an aside--the MFH plot. A court-ordered and controlled audit could be extended to later find out if TH suddenly spent a lot of $ about the time the landscaper alleges the plot (if the cops don't already have that info, which they should have by this point). And, how do we know that late appearance of the landscaper wasn't an appearance in this made-for-TV mess, paid for by someone who wanted to discredit TH? Just spitballin' it.

Meanwhile, how about Kyron? How about a plea from parents on *his* behalf? People have raged about TH being concerned about $ when she was tossed out of her home with no job, etc., well sauce/goose/gander. Now KH is the one concerned about $. Sauce/goose/gander.

At this point, none of them are earning any blue ribbons, IMHO. Poor Kyron.

Thanks button not adequate.

Huge thanks for this post. It really, really was outstanding.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Calliope]

Heck Terri could have a really good friend that gave her that money or she has holed it up somewhere for awhile...I have met people who do not use banks, they stash their money in their homes and quite often have large sums of money, nothing to the tune of $350,000 at least not to my knowledge ..lol

They should follow the money.....

She had hundreds of FB friends. Who knows? Maybe they took up a collection.

 

[Melanie]

The amount of money paid between client and attorney is PRIVELGED. There's no way KH is going to know the amount is true or not. Does he have a copy of the contract???

MOO

Mel

 

[swa]

My guess is the 350k is from a major network for an exclusive interview.