2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[Chablis]

They were married for like 3 years, tops, iirc. Personally, I don't think that length of time qualifies her for much of anything alimony/asset wise regardless of the circumstances. I also think she would be unemployable pretty much to the same extent, even if KH and DY had kept their mouths shut. In fact, some here and elsewhere have suggested that KH and DY's recent *approach* in the media has actually turned the tide of public opinion slightly more against them, and slightly more in favor of TH. I think that's probably true. And prior to them speaking, public opinion was based solely on what we learned about TH from LE, the media and other members of the general public, so it was what is was -- and it wasn't good. If anything, it seems like KH has improved her public image by airing her dirty laundry, and also by tarnishing his own image. Of course his attorney's never going to argue that, so it's probably a moot point lol

I dont get from reading various new sources and all that that anyone thinks Kaine is tarnished or the bad guy, truth be told. I think the world suspect Terri and sees Kaine as a victim, which he is. Cheating on your wife does not equal the right to have your child killed or missing.

 

[1Chump]

Thanks. I agree that it has to be fair to both parties, but even if she didn't have anything to do with Kryon's disappearence, she still was carrying on with other men and KH should be able to divorce her in a reasonable amount of time. If she isn't going to contest the divorce, then why does she need to abate the proceedings. She just doesn't want to reveal where the retainer money came from because it is probably a big clue in the criminal case.

Hypothetically - If she had nothing to do with Kyron then while she was also grieving the loss of Kyron, Kaine left her, took away her right to have any contact with her daughter, helped to destroy her publically so she had no one, but it is unfair to him that AFTER that she may have turned to another man for comfort?

IMO, For all intent purposes, they are both single. They are living separate lives. The only way not getting divorce right this minute harms either one is if they are planning to marry someone else.

 

[tlcya]

I have a friend who worked in another state than mine as a paralegal in workman's comp claims.

I know in my state as well with workman's comp, it is said that one is employable determined by the amount of disability. My friend told me of a case where the woman was a nurse and workman's comp said that she could do work at home such as making silk flowers.

My hubby's husband had sheet metal dropped on his head from several stories above as he was walking through his place of employment.

He had an excellent job. He got to be a telemarketer.

Terri can get jobs. I know people with Master's degrees that are working jobs that are not at their level, such as clerks at bookstores.

Why should Terri be entitled to a job at her level?

She can work on the farms or at a car wash.

My daughter used to work with sex offenders. Many of them worked at the car wash and at restaurants after their release.

BTW, my son and son-in-law both worked at the car wash while going to college. My son, DIL, and daughter also worked at restaurants while going to college as well, so I am not saying all are crimmies in that line of work.

My DIL still works as a waitress to supplement her teaching job.

Terri can do like the rest of us.

I totally get the point you are making with the wokers comp analogy. Yes, Terri is physically able bodied and certainly employable in that regard. No - she is not disabled either mentally or physically. Howver, the point I think some posters are making is that in this cirumstance, given that she is prime suspect (unnamed by LE but certainly named by pulic as such) in a MFH plot and the possible murder/kidnapping of Kyron, her face plastered all over the world.

Who exactly is going to hire her, even as a hotel maid or a fry cook? Maybe the wording should be changed. It is not that she "unemployable" but rather "unhirable" and completely undesirable as an employee given the current situation.

 

[desquire]

SNIPPED
Additionally, I will be hugely interested to see what the judge rules on the request for abatement. It is my hope that the judge has and shows great wisdom.

My personal hope for the situation is that the judge rules that it is in the best interest of a parent suffering the "loss" of their child (until it is shown otherwise), and the knowledge that their marital partner attempted to put out a contract on their life to expedite this divorce, clean, cut and dry. I believe that to allow the abatement of this divorce would be very cruel under the circumstances. I believe that equitability in the divorce can be shown to Terri despite the cloud that hangs over her. Both parties need to show what they have of marital property and get it equitably split. Both have new challenges in life and will need all of the funds they can rescue from being diminished by legal costs.

If you start with the presumption of innocence, like the judge here must because TH hasn't been charged with any of those things let alone proven guilty, the most equitable decision would be to grant the abatement. TH has stipulated to the granting of a judgment of divorce immediately, she stipulated that she will not seek a share of anything Kaine earns or that their marital property earns from the date of separation, Kaine currently has de facto full custody of baby K, and Terri is unemployed and has no assets that Kaine is likely to get in the ultimate domestic relations order. Given all of that, the only one potentially harmed by an abatement would be Terri, since it delays her getting any money from Kaine or seeing baby K. On the other hand, it will be almost impossible for Terri to protect her and baby K's interests in a divorce proceeding when all the world thinks that her ex-spouse is a martyred saint and she is evil personified and thus her every move is played out through those lenses on the front page, the evening news and national tabloids. For whatever reason, LE has chosen to use Kaine's public media flogging of Terri and her friends as one of their investigative tools and Kaine has shown that he will use court filings as part of that media strategy. There is no way that a divorce proceeding in that kind of environment will be fair to Terri.

 

[Chablis]

I totally get the point you are making with the wokers comp analogy. Yes, Terri is physically able bodied and certainly employable in that regard. No - she is not disabled either mentally or physically. Howver, the point I think some posters are making is that in this cirumstance, given that she is prime suspect (unnamed by LE but certainly named by pulic as such) in a MFH plot and the possible murder/kidnapping of Kyron, her face plastered all over the world.

Who exactly is going to hire her, even as a hotel maid or a fry cook? Maybe the wording should be changed. It is not that she "unemployable" but rather "unhirable" and completely undesirable as an employee given the current situation.

Nobody here knows if Terri is mentally disabled, she could very well have a mental impairment. I am content shes doing nothing, not too much of a chance she can hurt anyone.
jmo

 

[human]

IMO, divorce cases are different. The amount of money you are required to pay in alimony and/or child support can be determined by the wages you are capable of earning, not necessarily the wages you do earn. There are people who will take lower paying jobs or cash under the table jobs strictly to avoid paying alimony and/or child support. Therefore, the Judge determines if the wages used for alimony and/or child support should be the actual earnings or the capable earnings.

IMO, in this case, the biggest factor in all the speculation about TH is the divorce and/or RO papers. However, most of the allegations are unnecessarily included in the divorce papers. The Order for Contempt on showing sealed papers to MC has absolutely nothing to do with allegations of MFH and/or "sexting" yet they were included in that document. By including unnecessary allegations in documents, Petitioner has played a huge part in making TH unemployable in her field or any field. Yes, he believes that she had something to do with his son's disappearance. Maybe she has but maybe she hasn't. At this time, she has not even been charges and is "legally" considered innocent of any wrong doing. Therefore, TH's attorney is agruing Petitioner should not be able to have it both ways....help to make her unemployable yet refuse to help her financially.

IMO, I understand those who feel TH should not be allowed to have anything in her divorce. Devil's Advocate....what if they charged/convicted a stranger in Kyron's case. However, this was after the divorce court made their rulings based on all this speculation than found out someone else did it. TH would lose EVERYTHING when she did nothing wrong.

I'm not saying that she shouldn't get anything in her divorce. I am saying that if convicted sex offenders who have served their term can get work, she can get work.

Maybe not her dream job, but she could work,like I said, on a farm, for example. There are plenty of farms in Oregon and she can be picking fruit and veggies , for example. It's not that easy to get American farm workers, so she could do that. Or she could do lawn mowing or yard work for her friends.

Where I live in another state, a person who uses a weed eater gets $60.00/an hour. But they do bring their own equipment, so she would get less here.

As a teacher, when I needed to hire weed eating done at my home, I figured I was in the wrong profession.

 

[cj1132]

Bringing over from another thread I posted on yesterday re: gifting.

I work for a CPA firm and asked our gift tax expert about the whole gifting thing. I'm on lunch so I'll make this quick.

I'm going to use $350,000 as the amount as this is what's been tossed around. An individual has a lifetime tax free gift tax exclusion of $1 million. They can use this amount at one time or spread it out over his or her lifetime. There is an annual gift tax exclusion of $13,000. For instance, TH got $350,000 from her dad in 2010. He is allowed an annual exclusion of $13,000. $350,000 - $13,000 = $337,000. So $1 million - $337,000 = $663,000. At the end of 2010, her dad would still have $663,000 to give away tax free over his lifetime. However, if he had already gifted prior to this, that $663,000 lifetime tax free limit would be reduced by prior gifts. He would have to file a gift tax return for 2010 showing the $350,000 on it and would pay no taxes on that amount. TH would owe no taxes on this gift and would not list it on her personal income tax return. However, if her attorney gave her documentation stating that part of this $350,000 was for tax planning, she might be able to use that portion as an itemized deduction on her return. No deduction for criminal activities, divorce, etc.

ETA: $13,000 exclusion is per donee. Example: 1 donor - 10 donees - Exclusion would be $13,000 x 10 = $130,000 tax free exclusion per year.
Hope this explains it.

 

[1Chump]

They were married for like 3 years, tops, iirc. Personally, I don't think that length of time qualifies her for much of anything alimony/asset wise regardless of the circumstances. I also think she would be unemployable pretty much to the same extent, even if KH and DY had kept their mouths shut. In fact, some here and elsewhere have suggested that KH and DY's recent *approach* in the media has actually turned the tide of public opinion slightly more against them, and slightly more in favor of TH. I think that's probably true. And prior to them speaking, public opinion was based solely on what we learned about TH from LE, the media and other members of the general public, so it was what is was -- and it wasn't good. If anything, it seems like KH has improved her public image by airing her dirty laundry, and also by tarnishing his own image. Of course his attorney's never going to argue that, so it's probably a moot point lol

IMO, TH's publically image has not improved in any manner nor has KH tarnished his own image. I personally have not ruled anyone out completely. That means I also have not ruled anyone in completely. My reasons are I have questions...questions that have not been asked and/or answered.

IMO, I still have questions. None of the speculation on the divorce is answering anyone of my questions. Yes it has brought up questions...questions of why is a divorce case being played out in public while Kyron is being lost.

 

[grandmaj]

AZ Lawyer raised an excellent point in the Ask a Lawyer thread. "What criminal matters does Terri need to clear up?"

Terri hasn't been charged with anything. Now case law is usually used for precident in making decisions. So maybe there is case law out there that shows that there are favorable rulings for abatement on the maybe there will be a criminal charge. Dunno.
Bunch may have put the cart before the horse here a tad. Time will tell.

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[1Chump]

I'm not saying that she shouldn't get anything in her divorce. I am saying that if convicted sex offenders who have served their term can get work, she can get work.

Maybe not her dream job, but she could work,like I said, on a farm, for example. There are plenty of farms in Oregon and she can be picking fruit and veggies , for example. It's not that easy to get American farm workers, so she could do that. Or she could do lawn mowing or yard work for her friends.

Where I live in another state, a person who uses a weed eater gets $60.00/an hour. But they do bring their own equipment, so she would get less here.

As a teacher, when I needed to hire weed eating done at my home, I figured I was in the wrong profession.

IMO, at this point in time, hiring an SO would not bring the "pressure" that hiring TH would.

 

[Wrinkles]

IMO, yes it would be totally unfair to KH if TH had something to do with Kyron. But it would be totally unfair to TH if she had nothing to do with Kyron.

IMO, the divorce court's only concern should be being fair to both parties in the divorce. If it is unfair to KH one way but unfair to TH in another way...it is not fair to both parties either way.

If I filed a divorce because:

a) I have a reason to believe (based on information from LE) that my 7 year old was missing due to an action on the part of my "mate"

and/or

b) I have a reason to believe (base on information from LE) that my mate tried to hire someone to murder me

Then I think it is fair to unleash me from my mate with all deliberate speed.

 

[wondering1]

I dont get from reading various new sources and all that that anyone thinks Kaine is tarnished or the bad guy, truth be told. I think the world suspect Terri and sees Kaine as a victim, which he is. Cheating on your wife does not equal the right to have your child killed or missing.

That's why I didn't mention news sources. I'm talking strictly about public opinion as reflected in some of the posts and comments I've seen after the media appearances. I didn't see much anti-kaine sentiment before they started on the media circuit, and it's my perception that there was a little more after they started to be more vocal. Probably b/c there was more to comment on; the cheating thing; and all of the other stuff even posters here have commented on (aloof, uninvolved, cold, etc). Regardless, it's negligible. My primary point was the TH's reputation was severely damage before KH said word one, imoo.

 

[nursebeeme]

IMO, divorce cases are different. The amount of money you are required to pay in alimony and/or child support can be determined by the wages you are capable of earning, not necessarily the wages you do earn. There are people who will take lower paying jobs or cash under the table jobs strictly to avoid paying alimony and/or child support. Therefore, the Judge determines if the wages used for alimony and/or child support should be the actual earnings or the capable earnings.

IMO, in this case, the biggest factor in all the speculation about TH is the divorce and/or RO papers. However, most of the allegations are unnecessarily included in the divorce papers. The Order for Contempt on showing sealed papers to MC has absolutely nothing to do with allegations of MFH and/or "sexting" yet they were included in that document. By including unnecessary allegations in documents, Petitioner has played a huge part in making TH unemployable in her field or any field. Yes, he believes that she had something to do with his son's disappearance. Maybe she has but maybe she hasn't. At this time, she has not even been charges and is "legally" considered innocent of any wrong doing. Therefore, TH's attorney is agruing Petitioner should not be able to have it both ways....help to make her unemployable yet refuse to help her financially.

IMO, I understand those who feel TH should not be allowed to have anything in her divorce. Devil's Advocate....what if they charged/convicted a stranger in Kyron's case. However, this was after the divorce court made their rulings based on all this speculation than found out someone else did it. TH would lose EVERYTHING when she did nothing wrong.

bbm: none of these tmh "allegations" are in the divorce petition:
http://media.wweek.com/attach/2010/06/29/Divorce.pdf

http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/e/1/2/e12f2287-ce0b-48e0-8d85-e3955216ae1b/FULLORDER.pdf the restraining order was granted: his reason listed for asking for the RO: Terri was tried to hire someone to kill him

bbm as for the sexting having nothing to do with the contempt charges I respectfully disagree
http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/0712/24229769.pdf

I have quoted a portion of the document:

"law enforcement has informed petitioners attorney respondent's stated personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man respondent previously attempted to hire to murder petitioner. Petitioner retains the actual cell phone related documents provided by law enforcement and asks that they be examined by the court in camera"

reason for RO: murder for hire
sexts to MC: according to LAW ENFORCEMENT similar to those TH shared with man she tried to hire to murder Kaine.

 

[Sherbie]

Hi, desquire. I agree for the most part with your post with a couple of exceptions.

Terri may be the only hurt financially, but I feel Kaine can make a case for continuing to be hurt emotionally by staying married to someone he (correctly or not) believes attempted to have him murdered, not to mention someone he believes at least knows something about the disappearance of his son. So if we're talking finances, I agree. If we're talking overall, though, I have to differ a bit.

Secondly, don't know if you've had a chance to catch the pressers, but LE has made it abundantly clear that none of the information that's coming out has come from them or at their behest. Now whether that's true, I can't say. But in the spirit of IUPG, as you rightly mentioned the divorce judge must presume TH to be, I'll give LE the benefit of the doubt that they're not complicit in embarking on a media crusade to persecute Terri.

I think TH's atty made a good argument in his motion for abatement, and so long as the dissolution of the marriage happens rather quickly, it's practical to hold the rest of the divorce issues in abeyance for a reasonable amount of time until other matters are hopefully further clarified.

 

[1Chump]

If I filed a divorce because:

a) I have a reason to believe (based on information from LE) that my 7 year old was missing due to an action on the part of my "mate"

and/or

b) I have a reason to believe (base on information from LE) that my mate tried to hire someone to murder me

Then I think it is fair to unleash me from my mate with all deliberate speed.

IMO, I would be telling LE to show me real evidence to support those allegations. Because I know my mate and do not "believe" my mate, the person I married, the person I have children with would EVER do any of the things you are claiming.

IMO, if LE does not have enough real evidence to arrest my mate..they do not have enough real evidence to make me turn against my mate. I would expect my mate to feel the exact same way. That is a big part of our commitment to each other when we took those vows.

 

[JSR]

But couldn't the non-working spouse financially ruin their ex by contesting every issue and draging out the divorce? And the court would still make the ex pay for endless attorney hours and filings? Isn't that more like pocketbook revenge than justice?

Pretty much. This is what happens ALL the time. It's one reason I hate family law and would never ever ever work in this area. I'm perfectly happy to stay out of that mess.

If one spouse knows they can't legally obtain assets then they drag out the proceedings knowing the other spouse will be paying for both attys fees.

 

[Sherbie]

IMO, I would be telling LE to show me real evidence to support those allegations. Because I know my mate and do not "believe" my mate, the person I married, the person I have children with would EVER do any of the things you are claiming.

IMO, if LE does not have enough real evidence to arrest my mate..they do not have enough real evidence to make me turn against my mate. I would expect my mate to feel the exact same way. That is a big part of our commitment to each other when we took those vows.

If (and I do mean IF) it's accurate that TH failed/refused LDTs or portions thereof, that the phone pings and her accounting for where she was do not match up, that she was uncooperative with LE to any extent...I think that's plenty for Kaine to suspect she at least knows something about Kyron's disappearance.

Remember, he is eyewitness and earwitness to some of these goings-on; it's not just a vague "maybe" from LE that he's basing his position on. As much as I love my husband, if I were to witness the above with my own eyes or hear it from his own lips, I would be devastated but would have to consider he might be involved.

Then to add insult to injury, if I were shown credible information that he were looking to have me killed....well, I just don't think I could trust him, regardless whether there were enough proof of that or involvement in my child's disappearance to get a conviction.

And if I felt that way, the thought of being married to him for even one more second would make my skin crawl, especially if I thought he had involvement in my son's disappearance. I wouldn't have to wait for him to be convicted of any charges to want to break my ties to him.

Not sure how someone can be expected to stand by their mate in such a situation, no matter how deeply you've loved them. Kaine is a far better judge of her character and whether she's being truthful with him and with LE than we are, not to mention he's been witness to the process and evidence, whereas we haven't been; so I have to believe he has reason to feel the way he does, including (IMO) a lot he's unable to speak about because of the ongoing investigation.

 

[JSR]

I fully believe that Terri did something with Kyron and that she explored a MFH plot against Kaine. However, since she hasn't been charged with either crime, in fact NO crime, I don't see how either of those things would be taken into consideration in a ruling about who pays what in her divorce.

When I was a stay-at-home mom, it would never have occurred to me or my then husband that the money WE had was more my husband's than mine. When I divorced him, we paid our attorney's fees out of our money.

I can see how it's completely galling to Kaine to pay for anything for Terri, considering what he suspects her of, but I don't understand how the money in their bank account is more his than hers.

I think what is most galling is the high level of attorneys that both of them have retained. Had Terri not attempted to put a hit out on Kaine then there would not have been a need to hire such high profile attorneys. Both of these attys don't come cheap. Nor should they.

If this had been a normal case Kaine wouldn't be on the hook for such high retainer fees and that's what's so damn galling. It's a direct result of what SHE did. And if Terri is vindictive enough to kidnap/murder his son to hurt Kaine then she's vindictive enough to drag this out and make Kaine pay through the nose. And frankly that sucks and is totally unfair.

And if Terri really did do what Kaine suspects she did then Terri is reveling in being able to further torture Kaine.

 

[human]

Bringing over from another thread I posted on yesterday re: gifting.

I work for a CPA firm and asked our gift tax expert about the whole gifting thing. I'm on lunch so I'll make this quick.

I'm going to use $350,000 as the amount as this is what's been tossed around. An individual has a lifetime tax free gift tax exclusion of $1 million. They can use this amount at one time or spread it out over his or her lifetime. There is an annual gift tax exclusion of $13,000. For instance, TH got $350,000 from her dad in 2010. He is allowed an annual exclusion of $13,000. $350,000 - $13,000 = $337,000. So $1 million - $337,000 = $663,000. At the end of 2010, her dad would still have $663,000 to give away tax free over his lifetime. However, if he had already gifted prior to this, that $663,000 lifetime tax free limit would be reduced by prior gifts. He would have to file a gift tax return for 2010 showing the $350,000 on it and would pay no taxes on that amount. TH would owe no taxes on this gift and would not list it on her personal income tax return. However, if her attorney gave her documentation stating that part of this $350,000 was for tax planning, she might be able to use that portion as an itemized deduction on her return. No deduction for criminal activities, divorce, etc.

ETA: $13,000 exclusion is per donee. Example: 1 donor - 10 donees - Exclusion would be $13,000 x 10 = $130,000 tax free exclusion per year.
Hope this explains it.

Thanks for the info! I didn't know about the 1 million lifetime and that it could be spread out over a lifetime.


Good deal for those that have that kind of cash.

 

[human]

I still maintain that if KH and DY have to work under stress, then TH can get a job. I would rather have Terri cleaning my car in the car wash than a sex offender.