2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[chasing.halos]

Please, do share!

Butting in...

Epiphany is a Christian festival, observed on January 6, commemorating the manifestation of Christ to the gentiles in the persons of the Magi; Twelfth-day.

 

[stmarysmead]

January 6 is the Feast of Epiphany...(in our church anyway.)

 

[gitana1]

My point is that Kaine Horman specifically noted in his application for the RO which has denied Terri access to her home and her daughter, that he got the information directly from LE. Once he stated that, he was stipulating that the State (Prosecution includes LE) had provided one side information and is denying the defense the right to see that same information due to it being an active criminal investigation.

If it was so important to protect that information from Terri, whose son is missing also, then it should have been handled much differently for Kaine. What they did, in essence, is violate their own cause of "ongoing investigation" by revealing this information to the extent they did. And now Terri's attorney is arguing that she has the right to that same information, due to LE's own violation of their rule.

Hi guys! I've been in court myself this morning and so I've had limited time and have not read through all the thread, but here's the deal from what I have seen thus far:
LE is under no obligation to reveal to anyone info they have accumulated during an on-going criminal investigation. But they can give that information to whomever they want.
Does that create an unfair advantage to Kaine in this case?
Well, as I have said repeatedly, Kaine would have had to (and still would have to) produce actual evidence and/or non-hearsay testimony in support of his allegations, in order to prevail in an RO request, (unless TH failed to contest it, which she did), and/or in connection with any custody case in which he is using those allegations to be awarded custody or bar TH from any visitation. So essentially, there is no real prejudice to TH as a result of one-handed info from LE to KH. he has to be able to either put up or shut up.
However, if I was TH's attorney, I would argue the way he is arguing because even though KH legally has to produce actual evidence, if she contests the allegations in any context, her attorneys know that the judge may be influenced by the unsupported allegations.

I'd like to comment about a couple of other things I have seen.
First, this is not a custody or visitation hearing. TH is not asking for that today. But very interestingly to me, her attorney is now saying that if he is granted the abatement, he will seek a modification of the RO as to custody/visitation. So it looks like he is going to treat the disso and RO separately and go for some rights to visitation through the RO. This will be very, very interesting to watch if that's what happens. Because this is when TH will be forced to address allegations and KH will be forced to provide evidence supporting his allegations, if pressed by TH.

TH has never expressed that she does not want her child and her failure to contest the RO or otherwise fight for custody does not show that, IMO. What is does show is that she is more afraid of criminal implications than she is afraid of being separated from her daughter, and that is significant.
Now, her attorney has indicated she may try for visitation somehow, in the future, but the same obstacles remain - so will she actually go for visitation rights now? Nothing has changed. She will still have to address the allegations in some way - either by testifying, objecting to hearsay or simply staying off the stand but forcing KH to prove his case, and arguing against what he tries to present. And why hasn't she tried to do any of this before? Why no attempt to modify up to now, or to even address only custody in the RO previously?
Those are the interesting questions to me. And what happens next will be very telling, IMO. We may all stand to learn a lot.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Now is Terri's right to Baby K...a trump card over Baby K's safety?

Should Kaine be put in a position where he may need to sabotage justice for his little son to protect his daughter?

This judge has an onerous task. If he allows Terri visitation..let us pray that whatever has sickened Deisree and frightened Kaine into divorce does not continue.

Or worse.

We can huff and puff but this is NOT fiction and WE DO NOT KNOW. Let's remember the children. Protect the powerless children FIRST..before we advocate for the adults.

SBM

It isn't an either/or situation. There are many degrees of visitation and custody.

For example, when my stepson was a small child, his biological mother (who had been convicted of custodial interference and neglect) was given supervised visitation, which meant that visitation took place in a secure location with armed guards.

There were rooms that were furnished much like living rooms (carpeting, cushioned chairs, toys, etc) and my husband had to deliver his son there at a certain hour, then come pick him up at a certain hour.

There was a person present, a social worker of some sort, who would intervene if in their judgment his ex-wife was doing/saying anything harmful to their son.

Visitation under such circumstances would seem extremely safe to me and not violate anyone's rights.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Please, do share!

Epiphany: a Christian holiday on January 6 celebrating the visit of the Magi to the infant Jesus.

Epiphany: the sudden realization or comprehension of the essence or meaning of something.

 

[desquire]

Something I don't know--is the judge required to rule just on the documents submitted for these issues *only*? Or can LE/the state provide him with documents not discussed in the courtroom or even that TH's lawyers know are being used as part of the decision.

IANAL so would appreciate the help.

No, the judge has to rule on the facts presented. So you can be pretty confident that he has no inside information from LE regarding the Kyron investigation or the MFH. When he referred to the MFH, he was referring to the fact as stated by Kaine and not (yet) rebutted by Terri, therefore it's a fact he must deem it to be true. That's completely different froman official confirmation that the statement is, in fact, true.

 

[Kat010]

No, the judge has to rule on the facts presented. So you can be pretty confident that he has no inside information from LE regarding the Kyron investigation or the MFH. When he referred to the MFH, he was referring to the fact as stated by Kaine and not (yet) rebutted by Terri, therefore it's a fact he must deem it to be true. That's completely different froman official confirmation that the statement is, in fact, true.

Thank you, thank you, for this reply--and so much more!

So his decision/statement are not official confirmation that Kaine's RO allegations are true. Am I getting that right?

 

[gitana1]

Well, TMH is currently unemployable (I doubt whether even MacDonald's would give her a job, considering the disruption by media her presence would cause), she still needs a place to live and a means of feeding herself, etc. So far, her parents have apparently been willing to have her live with them but that's not a viable long term solution.

It is much easier not to think about money when one is not in dire need of it, in my opinion based on my own life experiences.

Regardless of KH's beliefs, until or unless TMH is convicted in a court of law, he implicitly agreed to certain things by marrying her. Among those things were an agreement that if they ever divorced, he and TMH would split their marital property in accordance to the law in the state in which they were living.

I am not a lawyer, all of the above is my opinion based on my own understanding of the law, which is incomplete and no doubt flawed.

This is all correct from a legal standpoint.

 

[darlin gal]

SBM

It isn't an either/or situation. There are many degrees of visitation and custody.

For example, when my stepson was a small child, his biological mother (who had been convicted of custodial interference and neglect) was given supervised visitation, which meant that visitation took place in a secure location with armed guards.

There were rooms that were furnished much like living rooms (carpeting, cushioned chairs, toys, etc) and my husband had to deliver his son there at a certain hour, then come pick him up at a certain hour.

There was a person present, a social worker of some sort, who would intervene if in their judgment his ex-wife was doing/saying anything harmful to their son.

Visitation under such circumstances would seem extremely safe to me and not violate anyone's rights.

I can think of several supervised visitations that resulted in the child being kidnapped. I am not saying that it would happen here, just that supervised visitation varies on level of safety, depending on the jurisdiction and how they are managed.

 

[momtective]

Just got in a few minutes ago from working our local fall festival so I missed the whole thing. Thank you to everyone for the play by play...you all are just awesome!

 

[seeking truth]

I would not want to be this judge.

As we all must freely admit...none of us KNOW these people nor do we know what evidence LE may have regarding Terri's innocence or guilt in Kyron's disappearance.

Some here are mainly concerned with Terri's rights, but admitting how little we know, would any of us wish to BE THE ONE...that put a toddler in the hands of a woman who may have murdered a 7 year old that loved her?

Really. I couldn't live with that.

Maybe there is not enough to charge her...but plenty enough to fear for this child. What do any of us want to happen?

Now is Terri's right to Baby K...a trump card over Baby K's safety?

Should Kaine be put in a position where he may need to sabotage justice for his little son to protect his daughter?

This judge has an onerous task. If he allows Terri visitation..let us pray that whatever has sickened Deisree and frightened Kaine into divorce does not continue.

Or worse.

We can huff and puff but this is NOT fiction and WE DO NOT KNOW. Let's remember the children. Protect the powerless children FIRST..before we advocate for the adults.

Beautifully said, stmarysmead. Thank You.

 

[BeanE]

No, the judge has to rule on the facts presented. So you can be pretty confident that he has no inside information from LE regarding the Kyron investigation or the MFH. When he referred to the MFH, he was referring to the fact as stated by Kaine and not (yet) rebutted by Terri, therefore it's a fact he must deem it to be true. That's completely different froman official confirmation that the statement is, in fact, true.

So that would be why he used what, to me, seemed like very nebulous wording?

"in their view it was more likely than not that Ms. Horman was likely involved"

 

[BeanE]

2:10: Judge's Reasoning: Proceeding would comprise Terri's 5th Amendment rights: “Some of these issues… may have changed significantly by then. The burden on Mr. Horman, while not insignificant, that’s still within the 8 months we normally try these cases.”

1:50: Judge delays ruling on the Horman divorce until January 6th.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html

 

[Aedrys]

Epiphany: a Christian holiday on January 6 celebrating the visit of the Magi to the infant Jesus.

Epiphany: the sudden realization or comprehension of the essence or meaning of something.

Wow, that's a heck of a day for the abatement to be postponed to.

 

[freefallzzzz]

Article clarified about wording "DECEMBER"

Peter Bunch said he's asked for Terri Horman calls to 9-1-1, back to Dec 26th [Note: the Decemeber request my have been mispoken]. But was denied by Sheriff's office saying it's part of "ongoing Investigation." He's tried to serve the landscaper, Rudy Sanchez with subpoena for deposition, but prosecutors wouldn't give him contact information because of the "ongoing investigation." Bunch said Terri called 911 when Sanchez showed up at her house wired "trying to talk to about something". He also said Rudy Sanchez is an AKA (alias).

http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html

 

[gibby207]

Wow, that's a heck of a day for the abatement to be postponed to.

Some may say it's a "come to Jesus" meeting. :dance:

 

[BeanE]

The hearing has ended.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html

 

[Kimster]

The hearing has ended. KATU will have more on this story at 4 p.m.

2:10: Judge's Reasoning: Proceeding would comprise Terri's 5th Amendment rights: “Some of these issues… may have changed significantly by then. The burden on Mr. Horman, while not insignificant, that’s still within the 8 months we normally try these cases.”<snipped>

http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html

 

[Kimster]

The waiting room will soon close. Please move to this thread to discuss----->[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5662923#post5662923"]2010.10.07 - Judge delays Horman divorce ruling until January - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Aedrys]

Well that was faster than anticipated!