2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[citigirl]

I'm not going to fault someone who tried to keep a marriage together...I've been in his place: do you leave the person and and risk losing custody to a "school teacher" when you know who and how she really is? And have the baby alone with her all the time except when you have visitation? (For me, I worried about whether my ex-husband would be able to take care of our kids on weekends. As it turned out, he did get every other weekend and he could not take care of them. Thank God my oldest could use a phone and call me to come and get them.)

What bothers me, as other poster, is the apparent disconnect between Kaine's and Desiree's public statements and the things he said in this motion.

I hear those who say these statements aren't mutually exclusive, but I guarantee Bunch will frame them so they appear to be in direct conflict with each other.

As I said when the texts first came out--I hope I am wrong, but I think Terri will get at least supervised visitation of little K.

 

[stmarysmead]

I only have 1 question. KH goes on about TH being passed out drunk on the couch, while disrupting baby K's schedule. WHY didn't he do anything about it then. I don't care if she got miffed if he tried to intervene -- I'd personally kick her to the curb. I'm just saying that perhaps this tradegy could have been avoided if he had really stepped up to the plate. After all he was home 3 out of 5 working days per week.

You can't go back and change history, but in this case I wish he had

MOO

Mel

Here's an idea...you know those warm and fussy Happy Family pictures on Terri's Facebook? Well, how about in some sober moment, Terri might have looked at them and said "These kids deserve BETTER than what I am. I'm going to get help for my drinking...provide a good, stable homelife. Really BE the Mom I'm faking out in Facebook to be."

How about a grown woman, almost 40, twice divorced...taking responsibility for HERSELF. Surely she had some sober moments. In those moments, why did she not TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HERSELF!

How about when Kaine brought her roses, or a red sports car and vanity plates...Terri thinking "I"ve got it good here. Kaine deserves better than what I am now. I'm going to change."

How about waking up from a drunken binge and looking at Baby K and thinking..."What kind of role model am I for her? What kind of caregiver am I to her"

How about looking at those pictures in her cellphone and saying..."The cops are watching me...I don't know this guy. This would humiliate my teenage son and disgust any potential jury pool? I need to stop."

How about asking Terri to responsible for Terri? How about just for once, advocating that we ALL have personal responsibility for OUR OWN CHOICES. Few of us are provided with other mortals tasked on this earth with just cleaning up after whatever WE feel like doing.

Mommy and Daddy did not make Terri do these things, or Kaine...or anyone else. She chose to do them. She CHOSE to send graphic pictures to a near stranger...use lewd graphic language while she was under surveillance...drink several nights a week till drunk.

Where was HER responsibility to look at her children and resolve to get the help she needed to SHOW her love FOR them mattered more than her self indulgence?

First and foremost...the person who must be criticized and scorned and held accountable for Terri's behavior...is TERRI!!

 

[32beatspersecond]

Here's an idea...you know those warm and fussy Happy Family pictures on Terri's Facebook? Well, how about in some sober moment, Terri might have looked at them and said "These kids deserve BETTER than what I am. I'm going to get help for my drinking...provide a good, stable homelife. Really BE the Mom I'm faking out in Facebook to be."

How about a grown woman, almost 40, twice divorced...taking responsibility for HERSELF. Surely she had some sober moments. In those moments, why did she not TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HERSELF!

How about when Kaine brought her roses, or a red sports car and vanity plates...Terri thinking "I"ve got it good here. Kaine deserves better than what I am now. I'm going to change."

How about waking up from a drunken binge and looking at Baby K and thinking..."What kind of role model am I for her? What kind of caregiver am I to her"

How about looking at those pictures in her cellphone and saying..."The cops are watching me...I don't know this guy. This would humiliate my teenage son and disgust any potential jury pool? I need to stop."

How about asking Terri to responsible for Terri? How about just for once, advocating that we ALL have personal responsibility for OUR OWN CHOICES. Few of us are provided with other mortals tasked on this earth with just cleaning up after whatever WE feel like doing.

Mommy and Daddy did not make Terri do these things, or Kaine...or anyone else. She chose to do them. She CHOSE to send graphic pictures to a near stranger...use lewd graphic language while she was under surveillance...drink several nights a week till drunk.

Where was HER responsibility to look at her children and resolve to get the help she needed to SHOW her love FOR them mattered more than her self indulgence?

First and foremost...the person who must be criticized and scorned and held accountable for Terri's behavior...is TERRI!!

It looks as though she may have been dabbling in the recovery process and a support network may have been where she and MC 'unofficially' met. MC alludes to this in his text response: 'This too shall pass'. KH may have even accompanied her to a 'meeting' or two, consequently bumping into his old friend, MC. As a friend of the late Bill W., myself, I can attest to the fact and the reality that early or sporatic sobriety can be a highly volatile place to be in the course of your life and that is exactly why in-patient programs and half-way homes exist; because you're running around with 'wet brain' and the emotional trauma still wreaks of infection. In a very small way, I feel sorry for TH, if only by association.

 

[desquire]

Let me add: TH, if she ever dares to submit evidence in the disso case, may make just as nasty accusations but I really doubt that they will be just as accurate.

Sorry, when I said they would be just as accurate, that was sarcasm, as in: neither party will provide a truly accurate picture of the other.

 

[Lanie]

What you said, and I can't help but wonder why Kaine didn't put the baby to bed properly. He says they shared responsibilities, so where the hell was he while this went on every night? No excuse, really. Glad he was home a lot, but as said above--there is more to this. Glad baby K is doing well.

Sounds like more to the story. This was NOT your happy family scene, IMO. Poor Kyron. Where was he during the pass-out and baby up-late shenanigans? Brings up lots of questions about what really went on in that house. Harsh, but ... Geez.

BBM

It sounds to me from the affidavit when Kaine did try to put the baby to bed, all he77 broke loose, so when your choices at the time are to let the baby stay up/sleep on the couch, or risk a massive disruption, keeping in mind this was not going on in the light of hindsight after another child has turned up missing, it is, IMO, difficult to determine the lesser of two evils.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Sorry, when I said they would be just as accurate, that was sarcasm, as in: neither party will provide a truly accurate picture of the other.

We have more than just Kaine and his attorney painting a portrait of TH.

Her face has appeared on police flyers. She has been interrogated several times. She has allowed "friends" like DeDe to do magazine articles and speak for her.

We not only judge the message, but the messenger.

On TH's side she has her text and sex messages, Michael Cook, the Batphone girls who spoke to the Grand Jury, DeDe in People magazine, and TH's attorney (who waited months to ask for visitation). Oh, and lots and lots of silence on her own part because she doesn't want a psychological evaluation.

On Kaine's side we have a Judge saying there was good reason for an RO, Desiree's repeated pleadings for Terri to cooperate, and the Multomah Police saying they have hundreds of other text/sex messages. We also have the Landscaper who said there was a Murder for Hire plot and Kaine's recent filings pointing to Terri's bad parenting, neither of which she has disputed yet.

Sooooo . . . I think you have to consider the source when it comes to "accuracy," as far as which side in this case makes the most sense.

 

[Trt]

Sorry, when I said they would be just as accurate, that was sarcasm, as in: neither party will provide a truly accurate picture of the other.

Difference is, when Terri says something that Kaine deems not to be accurate, HE responds. Its what you do in a situation where your reputation is being incorrectly sullied by someone. You present evidence and proof to fight the false accusations. JMO

 

[Trt]

Some on the other thread are bothered by the fact that TH hasn't expressed any concern for, or missing, baby K or K in the course of her texting. I guess they must not have realized that those parts were intentionally left out for a reason. (I knew the answer but was trying to make a point.)

Terri's lawyers were also provided a full transcript of those texts. Kaine and his lawyer's job is to provide evidence to the court to back up their assertions. Nothing is preventing Terri or her lawyers from responding with the FULL context of the texts if they present a different picture than what Kaine is asserting. They actually got the texts at the same time Kaine did (way back when contempt motion was filed), yet they have not used ANY of them to make their case that Terri misses her child(ren). I wonder why???

JMO

 

[ami]

Kaine couldn't have called CPS on Terri, because he'd also be calling them on himself. They may have even told him not to leave the kids unsupervised with her or to move them away from her. The baby must not have been put to bed at 7-8pm. Kyron must have been in bed though, since he's said to have always slept 12 hours per night. Terri was supposedly sleeping on the couch with the baby, so Kaine must have been going on to bed or not putting the baby into her own bed after Terri passed out. I doubt she would have woke up and took the baby out of her crib, but suppose it could happen. It is sort of odd. Where the heck was he so early in the evening when Terri was supposedly passed out due to drinking? Why didn't he take the baby into the bedroom with him...

I only have 1 question. KH goes on about TH being passed out drunk on the couch, while disrupting baby K's schedule. WHY didn't he do anything about it then. I don't care if she got miffed if he tried to intervene -- I'd personally kick her to the curb. .. After all he was home 3 out of 5 working days per week.

You can't go back and change history, but in this case I wish he had

MOO

Mel

Not sure why it's a mystery when Kaine's affidavit says he tried to intervene and put the baby to bed. There's the answer: the baby was sleeping on the couch with Terri, and some nights baby K was awake and watching TV at 1am and he would try to intervene, put her to bed, causing Terri to get upset.

Also, why would you "doubt" that Terri would wake up and take baby K out of her crib some nights? What have you read about Terri that would make that action seem improbable?

 

[BeanE]

Terri's lawyers were also provided a full transcript of those texts. Kaine and his lawyer's job is to provide evidence to the court to back up their assertions. Nothing is preventing Terri or her lawyers from responding with the FULL context of the texts if they present a different picture than what Kaine is asserting. They actually got the texts at the same time Kaine did (way back when contempt motion was filed), yet they have not used ANY of them to make their case that Terri misses her child(ren). I wonder why???

JMO

Hi Trt. I've been looking for that. I only found one statement in Kaine's deposition, but it didn't indicate if it was all the texts or a portion.

Can you tell me where you found that it was a full transcript?

TIA

 

[Trt]

Hi Trt. I've been looking for that. I only found one statement in Kaine's deposition, but it didn't indicate if it was all the texts or a portion.

Can you tell me where you found that it was a full transcript?

TIA

Hi Bean! Considering I was using YOUR post for reference, I'm stumped. LOLOL (thanks for all your reference posts, BTW)

But, of course you are right, I only assumed that LE gave Kaine and Terri's lawyers the full transcript from that statement. They may have only redacted portions. I would be surprised to know that LE gave Kaine and his lawyers a full transcript(as has been suggested that Rackner and Kaine were the ones who redacted the texts to make Terri look bad) and only gave redacted portions to Terri's lawyers. My assumption is that they both have the same thing. Since Kaine has reference other portions of texts, my assumption is that both lawyers have the full transcript. Sorry, no help at all.

 

[BeanE]

Not sure why it's a mystery when Kaine's affidavit says he tried to intervene and put the baby to bed. There's the answer: the baby was sleeping on the couch with Terri, and some nights baby K was awake and watching TV at 1am and he would try to intervene, put her to bed, causing Terri to get upset.

Also, why would you "doubt" that Terri would wake up and take baby K out of her crib some nights? What have you read about Terri that would make that action seem improbable?

Terri "would pass out" "around 7 or 8pm".

"Typically", Terri would "be passed out". The baby "would be up past midnight playing or watching tv". "Sometimes", "if" Kaine tried to put the baby to bed, Terri would be verbally combative and offended.

"It was common" for Kaine to "find the baby up and awake at 1am while Terri was asleep from alcohol".

These are Kaine's own words, firsthand, in a sworn deposition.

While Terri was passed out from 7/8pm, and the baby was awake playing up until past midnight until 1am, Kaine does not say where he was, or what he was doing, or why he didn't take care of his baby as he should have, and put her to bed. He doesn't say what he did or what happened the other times, when Terri was passed out, the baby was up and awake and playing at 12/1am, and he didn't try to put the baby to bed.

He speaks as if it was Terri's job to take care of the baby, and he was just an occasional "helper" or "intervener". He doesn't explain why he felt this exemption from his parental responsibilities to ensure the baby was supervised and safe, got to bed at an appropriate time, on a regular basis, and got adequate sleep.


6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e., slurring speech, staggering gait, etc. several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes K would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with K. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. K would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting K to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.

7. It was common to find K up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.

Kaine's deposition PDF pages 4 and 5, items 6 and 7:
http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/1026/25509272.pdf

 

[Trt]

"Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with K." I took this to mean that Terri was the one that usually put the baby to sleep so that if Terri was "passed out", K was passed out with her. That Terri slept on and off many nights, which would naturally mean that K would wake off and on too. I also took his statements to mean that K would WAKE and play, not be up all that time that Terri was passed out. JMO

 

[Kimster]

Kaine couldn't have called CPS on Terri, because he'd also be calling them on himself. They may have even told him not to leave the kids unsupervised with her or to move them away from her. The baby must not have been put to bed at 7-8pm. Kyron must have been in bed though, since he's said to have always slept 12 hours per night. Terri was supposedly sleeping on the couch with the baby, so Kaine must have been going on to bed or not putting the baby into her own bed after Terri passed out. I doubt she would have woke up and took the baby out of her crib, but suppose it could happen. It is sort of odd. Where the heck was he so early in the evening when Terri was supposedly passed out due to drinking? Why didn't he take the baby into the bedroom with him...

Calling CPS because a parent is drunk isn't going to do anything. I tried that when my ex had my son over the summer. They went to his apartment and checked his cupboards for food. They took my son aside and asked him if he'd been physically abused - he wasn't. All it did was cause my ex to tell my son how horrible I was and how I was trying to keep him from his daddy, etc. And it caused him to get a lawyer.

The amount of parents abusing alcohol and drugs may stagger some of us. What DO we do with this epidemic? I asked my friend who is a school counselor once why teen suicide is up? Why is drug usage so prevalent in our high school? She said alcohol and drug abuse at home. It's bigger than all this. To me, Kaine staying and trying his best to deal with it was the best thing for baby K. There is no way I can believe he or anyone he knows would have even had one thought that this would have happened to Kyron.

And please remember, Kaine is not on trial here.

 

[cluciano63]

As more and more details about the atmosphere in this home trickle out, it makes me wish I could press a "pause" button and reach in and remove the little ones before whatever was going to happen...happened.

 

[Trt]

As more and more details about the atmosphere in this home trickle out, it makes me wish I could press a "pause" button and reach in and remove the little ones before whatever was going to happen...happened.

As mentioned by many, alchoholism is no reason to assume that a person will disappear a child. Its not even a good enough reason to remove a child from a home most times. Look at J...Terri was driving in the car with him, charged with endangering him and still he lived with her until she put him out. Hindsight is 20/20 and there is no real way to know when a parent is unstable enough to do the unthinkable. JMO

 

[Kimster]

As mentioned by many, alchoholism is no reason to assume that a person will disappear a child. Its not even a good enough reason to remove a child from a home most times. Look at J...Terri was driving in the car with him, charged with endangering him and still he lived with her until she put him out. Hindsight is 20/20 and there is no real way to know when a parent is unstable enough to do the unthinkable. JMO

I've been trying to say this and you said it much better! Thanks!

 

[BeanE]

"Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with K." I took this to mean that Terri was the one that usually put the baby to sleep so that if Terri was "passed out", K was passed out with her. That Terri slept on and off many nights, which would naturally mean that K would wake off and on too. I also took his statements to mean that K would WAKE and play, not be up all that time that Terri was passed out. JMO

So you mean that Kaine was leaving the baby alone, unsupervised, for 4 to 6 hours, with a woman who drank to unconsciousness at 7 or 8pm, and then would rise, still drunk as a skunk, staggering around?

If so, I still have the same question. Where was he? Why wasn't he keeping his baby safe from danger? Why wasn't he putting his baby to bed and taking care of her needs while Terri staggered around the living room, passing in and out of consciousness?

Maybe it was teenage J's job to take care of the baby during those times, and because he was young, he didn't know how to get the baby to bed.

But of course, he hadn't been there since February.

And Kyron slept 12 or more hours a night and wouldn't come out of his room, so I'm sure he wasn't trying to take care of the baby.

I've been trying and trying to think of reasonable explanations that make sense, and I can't find any.

ETA: And I'll note (just generally, not to you specifically, trt) that I haven't accused Kaine of any crimes. I'm making observations based on info that came out in MSM media via court documents that contain Kaine's own firsthand sworn testimony in a deposition. And I haven't bashed or criticized or scorned him. I'm concerned about this baby, and I want to know what was going on in that household prior to Kyron's disappearance.

 

[Kimster]

So you mean that Kaine was leaving the baby alone, unsupervised, for 4 to 6 hours, with a woman who drank to unconsciousness at 7 or 8pm, and then would rise, still drunk as a skunk, staggering around?

If so, I still have the same question. Where was he? Why wasn't he keeping his baby safe from danger? Why wasn't he putting his baby to bed and taking care of her needs while Terri staggered around the living room, passing in and out of consciousness?

Maybe it was teenage J's job to take care of the baby during those times, and because he was young, he didn't know how to get the baby to bed.

But of course, he hadn't been there since February.

And Kyron slept 12 or more hours a night and wouldn't come out of his room, so I'm sure he wasn't trying to take care of the baby.

I've been trying and trying to think of reasonable explanations that make sense, and I can't find any.

It is truly heartbreaking, I agree. And this is happening to children everywhere. More than we know.

When I found out from my friends who are educators that this is happening in SO many homes, I quit letting my kids spend the night with friends unless I knew the family VERY personally. Seriously. It's that bad.

We might want to open a thread about this in the Jury Room to discuss ways of killing the root of the problem - families abusing drugs and alcohol. I have to wonder how many of our cases include this issue? I don't know about you guys, but I'm sure not hearing much in the media about it and our children are suffering.

 

[Kimster]

Thank you for letting me throw out little nuggets of my experience with this issue. I didn't mean to monopolize your discussion. I think we are all on the same page in that this family situation was a disaster. I hope some awareness comes out of it and some solutions to help our children in the future!

Carry on and may Kyron come home soon!

:grouphug: