2010.07.19 Defense is Investigating George

[butterfly1978]

I thought WAY back in the begining that this was going to be brought up, but I thought the MPD was going to be used on Cindy saying that Cindy is really Zanny the Nanny and she has split personality, and Casey was trying to protect the family, and that is why Cindy was really seeing the Theropist. Which ever way you look at it this isn't going to fly. MPD or DID is way to controversal and Casey didnt exibit the signs. Wasnt she deemed competent when she was first put in jail by a psychiatrist? I know many people use the abuse thing as a way to get away with murder, look at the Menedeze brothers..... but its just NOT going to work her Casey killed Caylee not the alleged abuser. Had she killed George or Lee it might have worked but not her killing Caylee.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-B0_m6fW94[/ame]

 

[Horace Finklestein]

MPD and repressed memories are pretty out there. There are tons of problems with both of these concepts and there's not much "proof" of any of it being true/real. I can see them trying to argue this, but seriously, what signs have there been? It's one of those occam's razor things, imo. What's more likely - she has some controversial, rare, difficult/impossible to prove or disprove affective (I think) disorders with vague symptoms, which has been constructed as she's in jail for murder, or that she did it via an accident or something more sinister? Please let's pray for a non-oj jury!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

MPD and repressed memories are pretty out there. There are tons of problems with both of these concepts and there's not much "proof" of any of it being true/real. I can see them trying to argue this, but seriously, what signs have there been? It's one of those occam's razor things, imo. What's more likely - she has some controversial, rare, difficult/impossible to prove or disprove affective (I think) disorders with vague symptoms, which has been constructed as she's in jail for murder, or that she did it via an accident or something more sinister? Please let's pray for a non-oj jury!

I think if they actually tried this they would get laughed out of court....

 

[strawberry]

Ooooh so Casey really did used to leave Caylee with Zanny the Nanny.... except Zanny the Nanny was really Casey! .... oh hang on, we knew that. OK so she still did it right? Fine, I'm good if they still lock up one of Casey's other personalities so she can't kill / steal / etc again.

There's dissociative identity disorder http://www.outofthefog.net/Disorders/DID.html

as well as the kind of dissociation that comes with forms of denial in borderline personality disordered folks [B]http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Dissociation.html[/B]

...here's an interesting article on the subject

THE IMPORTANCE OF RECOGNIZING TRAUMA
THROUGHOUT CAPITAL MITIGATION
INVESTIGATIONS AND PRESENTATIONS
Kathleen Wayland, Ph.D.

This article appears in the Hofstra Law Review symposium issue on the Supplementary Guidelines for the Mitigation Function of Defense Teams in Death Penalty cases.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1160353

That second one, bbm, sounds like both CA and ICA

 

[Mrs G Norris]

That second one, bbm, sounds like both CA and ICA

Agree.....more Cindy that one....check this out for Casey http://www.outofthefog.net/Disorders/ASPD.html

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Seems, they should have gone this way from the start. I wonder why ICA is now on board with this???

I see this as their only way to ensure ICA doesn't get a death sentence. I'd like to see her plead guilty but she has to tell what she did to end Caylee's life, otherwise, no deal, IMO...

This is where Terrance Lenamon exited, he was alluding to a mental illness, or psychotic break on that motion to exclude the death penalty...he exited the team soon after...and now they see, this might be their only option??? What the heck took so long..JMHO


Justice for Caylee

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I'll never understand why she didn't admit it once they knew they had human decomp in the car....that was the moment to save her neck IMO, she would have walked out of prison inside 10 years. This is where I wonder about psychopaths, for all their so called self preservation skills they certainly know how to shoot themselves in the foot. There's definitely a streak of masochism to it all.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I'll never understand why she didn't admit it once they knew they had human decomp in the car....that was the moment to save her neck IMO, she would have walked out of prison inside 10 years. This is where I wonder about psychopaths, for all their so called self preservation skills they certainly know how to shoot themselves in the foot. There's definitely a streak of masochism to it all.

I believe it was due to HOW Caylee was found! Duct tape over her airways would make ICA take this to the bitter end, IMO...how can she explain the whys of the duct tape!

Had this been an accident, one distress call to 911 and she might not be facing a death penalty first degree murder charge. Since, IMO, I believe this was a deliberate act of rage, ICA could never admit what she's done. I do believe if she goes with the psychotic break, it might save her from certain death but not save her from LWOP...she's done, either way you slice it, IMO..


Justice for Caylee

 

[Cat13067]

Seems, they should have gone this way from the start. I wonder why ICA is now on board with this???

I see this as their only way to ensure ICA doesn't get a death sentence. I'd like to see her plead guilty but she has to tell what she did to end Caylee's life, otherwise, no deal, IMO...

This is where Terrance Lenamon exited, he was alluding to a mental illness, or psychotic break on that motion to exclude the death penalty...he exited the team soon after...and now they see, this might be their only option??? What the heck took so long..JMHO


Justice for Caylee

For God's sake I just wish JB & Co. would spin the wheel, and pick a defense for KC. Seriously, does it matter? KC is going to get convicted of murder. The only reason that JB is taking this case to trial is for one reason, and that is to sell it down the road.

 

[Kentjbkent]

Seems, they should have gone this way from the start. I wonder why ICA is now on board with this???

I see this as their only way to ensure ICA doesn't get a death sentence. I'd like to see her plead guilty but she has to tell what she did to end Caylee's life, otherwise, no deal, IMO...
This is where Terrance Lenamon exited, he was alluding to a mental illness, or psychotic break on that motion to exclude the death penalty...he exited the team soon after...and now they see, this might be their only option??? What the heck took so long..JMHO


Justice for Caylee

Not necessarily.....

KC could change her plea to No Contest or enter into a plea agreement with SA for No Contest and this would result in a GUILTY sentence, but KC would be required to make no further statement other than to assure the judge that she understands this plea will result in a guilty conviction. End of story. She will also be entitled to the automatic appeal.

BUT: KC would not be claiming guilt at all, but that the evidence is so great, the "contest" over guilt is not in her favor. (See recent Attorney thread)

I still feel strongly this is where this case is headed. IF (big IF) KC is convinced this is her best option, I do not see SA unwilling to enter into negotitations to guarantee KC will stay behind bars. As personally involved as LDB and JA appear to be in the case, I just cannot imagine that they would be willing to gamble Justice for Caylee. There is always that percentage that this trial would end in an aquittal, and I just don't think either are willing to gamble in order to "win".....

I also think it is quite possible that "talks" with KC have already begun, attempting to convince her that her best option at this point is a "do over" in the appeal process.....enter Mr. Moss.....

JMHO

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Not necessarily.....

KC could change her plea to No Contest or enter into a plea agreement with SA for No Contest and this would result in a GUILTY sentence, but KC would be required to make no further statement other than to assure the judge that she understands this plea will result in a guilty conviction. End of story. She will also be entitled to the automatic appeal.

BUT: KC would not be claiming guilt at all, but that the evidence is so great, the "contest" over guilt is not in her favor. (See recent Attorney thread)

I still feel strongly this is where this case is headed. IF (big IF) KC is convinced this is her best option, I do not see SA unwilling to enter into negotitations to guarantee KC will stay behind bars. As personally involved as LDB and JA appear to be in the case, I just cannot imagine that they would be willing to gamble Justice for Caylee. There is always that percentage that this trial would end in an aquittal, and I just don't think either are willing to gamble in order to "win".....

I also think it is quite possible that "talks" with KC have already begun, attempting to convince her that her best option at this point is a "do over" in the appeal process.....enter Mr. Moss.....

JMHO

This is her best option, I absolutely agree with you ~ but the thought of Casey entering a No Contest after 2 years of stalling tactics makes me somewhat annoyed because I want to see a trial, I want to see all the evidence laid out, I want to hear the experts speak, and I want to hear the witnesses. It would seem anti-climactic, it wouldn't feel like justice for Caylee, and I don't see the point if she is granted an instant appeal.

Now with the Misty trial happening at the moment I heard that the judge has right to accept No Contest or not, and am assuming this is the case in criminal trials throughout Florida?

 

[LinasK]

Seems, they should have gone this way from the start. I wonder why ICA is now on board with this???

I see this as their only way to ensure ICA doesn't get a death sentence. I'd like to see her plead guilty but she has to tell what she did to end Caylee's life, otherwise, no deal, IMO...

This is where Terrance Lenamon exited, he was alluding to a mental illness, or psychotic break on that motion to exclude the death penalty...he exited the team soon after...and now they see, this might be their only option??? What the heck took so long..JMHO


Justice for Caylee

Not necessarily.....

KC could change her plea to No Contest or enter into a plea agreement with SA for No Contest and this would result in a GUILTY sentence, but KC would be required to make no further statement other than to assure the judge that she understands this plea will result in a guilty conviction. End of story. She will also be entitled to the automatic appeal.

BUT: KC would not be claiming guilt at all, but that the evidence is so great, the "contest" over guilt is not in her favor. (See recent Attorney thread)

I still feel strongly this is where this case is headed. IF (big IF) KC is convinced this is her best option, I do not see SA unwilling to enter into negotitations to guarantee KC will stay behind bars. As personally involved as LDB and JA appear to be in the case, I just cannot imagine that they would be willing to gamble Justice for Caylee. There is always that percentage that this trial would end in an aquittal, and I just don't think either are willing to gamble in order to "win".....

I also think it is quite possible that "talks" with KC have already begun, attempting to convince her that her best option at this point is a "do over" in the appeal process.....enter Mr. Moss.....

JMHO

I respectfully disagree with both of the above bolded. Casey could enter a "No Contest" Plea- I think that's also called an Alford plea, but...as AZLawyer pointed out, without a deal from the state, she can still get the death sentence. I see no reason for the state to offer a plea at this point, they have the body without Casey's help or cooperation, and the A family doesn't appear to want/need the details for closure. The only possible reason for the state to avoid a trial would be to save the cost. With all the circumstantial evidence they have, which is very powerful (watch a few episodes of Forensic Files if you need convincing), I think this case is a slam dunk!!! We're not talking OJ's, or even Michael Jackson's, or Robert Blake's celebrity star-struck juries, or "Dream Team" level lawyers!

 

[wildchild1961]

Seems, they should have gone this way from the start. I wonder why ICA is now on board with this???

I see this as their only way to ensure ICA doesn't get a death sentence. I'd like to see her plead guilty but she has to tell what she did to end Caylee's life, otherwise, no deal, IMO...

This is where Terrance Lenamon exited, he was alluding to a mental illness, or psychotic break on that motion to exclude the death penalty...he exited the team soon after...and now they see, this might be their only option??? What the heck took so long..JMHO


Justice for Caylee

IMO she didn't want to go this route right away for several reasons.

1. In spite of her obvious self-centeredness and selfishness, she cant possibly be completely devoid of all affection for her family so it wouldn't be her first choice.. not by a long shot. She wouldn't hesitate to do it to save herself, but I refuse to live in a world where I can believe that it would be her first choice to crucify her family.

2. Casey is more than smart enough to play it out as long as possible in order to not cut off any potential financial backing/support from her family.

3. Baez had her totally convinced early on that she was going to do an easy walk from all of this so why should she need to pull out the big guns unnecessarily? She has cut off most communication to anyone other than the lawyers or inmates so she has no real idea of how horribly the case is going other than the last few hearings where she seems to be getting a clue.

4. Finally, she is going to potentially open up a huge can of worms by going this route. Hurt and anger someone enough... and even though they might have a valid self-serving reason to keep their mouth shut because of something held over their head (which I believe she has on them.. be it real or imagined) .. and they will sing like the proverbial canary, even to their detriment. Casey's defense has almost nothing left to try .. this is the last big card she can play to save her life.

wild

 

[tiff07]

I hope false incest allegations against her father is not a card Casey is going to try to play. I suppose when a jury sees photos of Casey partying during the period of Caylees disappearance, when they hear about her various and sometimes concurrent multiple sexual relationships, her unique reaction to Caylees disappearance and the fact that she is a single mother with a penchant for petty theft and confabulating the defence will need to explain Caseys behaviour in a manner that satisfies the jury that Casey was a product of her upbringing or some type of traumatic event and not a monster. Caseys character is on trial. Any breakdown in the relationship between George and Casey could be used towards her defense. Incest would be a perfect explaination because Casey could then claim that the parental/childs relationship lines were blurred long before Caylee came along, leaving Casey unable to differentiate between right or wrong, knowing no boundaries so in her mind it was acceptable to be promiscuous, steal, lie and perhaps even commit filicide. Right now I don't think even Casey knows what makes Casey tick, if George sexually abused her or not etc. For what its worth I think Casey learned to lie in the family home, maybe learn't to steal there too but I don't believe for one second George ever molested anybody in that family. Sure he may have been a lousy dad/husband at times and made mistakes like so many of us do, it is called being human and disfunctional (as all families are to some degree) and that may not have helped Caseys cause but she needs to look at memories of childhood friends in the Anthony home or close by if she believes someone molested her and that that has a bearing on the person she has become. For anybody in Caseys camp to tread the George path based on Casey having some dodgy hunch or confused flashback evoking an unpleasant feeling related to George, they should proceed with extreme caution. Allegations of incest ruin peoples lives. Nothing is more heinous than killing a child however falsely accusing someone of sexual abuse to excuse your own behaviour is deplorable. Especially if the accuser has taken the life of the persons grandchild. If Casey has killed Caylee and won't take responsibility for her actions then further tries to falsely incriminate her own father that is pure evil and all I can say is God have mercy on her soul. What would possess a person to become so he!! bent on destroying her own family? No disrespect to anybody intended and all my own opinion.

 

[wildchild1961]

What would possess a person to become so he!! bent on destroying her own family? No disrespect to anybody intended and all my own opinion.

Because she hates herself and has for a very long time.

wild

 

[tiff07]

Because she hates herself and has for a very long time.

wild

If that is the case then that is incredibly sad. A little girl is dead for goodness sake.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Psychopathy; that's what made her hell bent on destroying her own family....violence and destruction, theft, lying, conning, manipulation and deceit are all part of the package. It's what they do, it's what she did. It's like a game of cat and mouse....'If I do this what happens, oh that's interesting, I wonder how they would have reacted if I'd done that, might try it next time just to see, oh that didn't work, maybe if I try it this way, ha-ha.. got them!' etc....psychological games, just for amusement, just to alleviate the dreary shallowness of her life, or just for short-lived personal gain. No great underlying reason, no great reward .. just a destructive psychological mindset.

She wont change, she can't change, and she won't stop now that she's in prison, she's just moved the stage into the courtroom.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

IMO she didn't want to go this route right away for several reasons.

1. In spite of her obvious self-centeredness and selfishness, she cant possibly be completely devoid of all affection for her family so it wouldn't be her first choice.. not by a long shot. She wouldn't hesitate to do it to save herself, but I refuse to live in a world where I can believe that it would be her first choice to crucify her family.

2. Casey is more than smart enough to play it out as long as possible in order to not cut off any potential financial backing/support from her family.

3. Baez had her totally convinced early on that she was going to do an easy walk from all of this so why should she need to pull out the big guns unnecessarily? She has cut off most communication to anyone other than the lawyers or inmates so she has no real idea of how horribly the case is going other than the last few hearings where she seems to be getting a clue.

4. Finally, she is going to potentially open up a huge can of worms by going this route. Hurt and anger someone enough... and even though they might have a valid self-serving reason to keep their mouth shut because of something held over their head (which I believe she has on them.. be it real or imagined) .. and they will sing like the proverbial canary, even to their detriment. Casey's defense has almost nothing left to try .. this is the last big card she can play to save her life.

wild

She killed caylee and dumped her in the woods. I'd say any semblance of affection for anyone, at least the way I understand it is out the window. Not saying she wishes them any ill will, but there's no way any of them actually mean anything to Casey imo.

 

[tiff07]

Psychopathy; that's what made her hell bent on destroying her own family....violence and destruction, theft, lying, conning, manipulation and deceit are all part of the package. It's what they do, it's what she did. It's like a game of cat and mouse....'If I do this what happens, oh that's interesting, I wonder how they would have reacted if I'd done that, might try it next time just to see, oh that didn't work, maybe if I try it this way, ha-ha.. got them!' etc....psychological games, just for amusement, just to alleviate the dreary shallowness of her life, or just for short-lived personal gain. No great underlying reason, no great reward .. just a destructive psychological mindset.

She wont change, she can't change, and she won't stop now that she's in prison, she's just moved the stage into the courtroom.

Yikes. Thanks for explaining.