2010.07.19 Defense is Investigating George

[Woe.be.gone]

I'll try to find where we spent a good deal of time discussing that there had been two carseats, one in KC's car and one in CA's car (both Eddie B. iirc). CA told LE that the carseat that had been in her car was up in the attic. :waitasec: I don't remember hearing anything else about the other carseat that, as far as I know, LE never confiscated.

If it's true that they had two carseats, which seems logical so they wouldn't have to keep switching carseats back and forth, then why did CA remove the carseat from her car to the attic as of July 15? Afterall, Caylee should have been back home any day right? Iirc LE went up into the attic because that is where they found a box of newspaper clippings.

How come the ability to edit our posts goes away so quickly now?

Anyway I found one thread called 'Carseat in the Pontiac Poll'. I'm linking a post that is a starting point about the two carseats discussion:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4325627&postcount=24"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Car Seat in 98 Pontiac POLL ADDED[/ame]


There is another thread too but the discussion might be contained within an old General thread where there isn't a specific title to the thread.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I know you're asking OLG but I'll give my versions of what may be but they may not reflect OLG's.

1. CA came home from her visit to Mt. Dora and eventually ended up in the pool with Caylee. KC came home late and the fight ensued and both of them lost sight of Caylee and she returned to the pool by herself.

2. KC left the house alone the night of the 15th. CA left for work the morning of the 16th leaving GA in charge of Caylee. Something happened to Cayl

 

[OneLostGrl]

I follow you on those suspicions and do respect them. I mean the last time a 3rd party (When did the computer store clerk see her by Walmart again I forgot?) saw Caylee she was with Cindy, and Georges story just seems fishy about knowing what they were wearing. Hey every story from this family is fishy. In fact the original date given by the family for when Caylee went missing was before father's day and then when the tape surfaced it was oh yeah well we last saw her the next day and she was wearing ect....ok yeah sure you remember that.

To me though given the strained relationship between ICA and Cindy. Looking at SP's comment about ICA and Cindy's relationship. I personally just don't see ICA going down as a martyr for Cindy. In no way shape or form do I see ICA doing that for anyone. If someone else did this ICA would have come clean well before those handcuffs clicked tight around her wrists. She would have said something to preserve herself imho.

Her lies and unwillingness to cooperate only point in one direction to me. Let alone all the evidence we have seen thus far.

OLG, I'm glad you keep oke:-ing to get to the truth. But I just can't see CA, who raised two babies to adulthood, suddenly murdering her beloved grandbaby (whom she seems to have named after her own two children), dumping her down the block in wrappings pointing straight back to the A home, and pinning it all on KC--who in this scenario would have to be complicit, disappear for 31 days, send some very questionable texts about the smell of dead squirrels, yet party like it's 1999 and have no alibi that didn't dead-end at an empty apartment or an empty office at Universal... I just can't see how what we know could possibly fit with CA being the SODDI.

If Caylee's death was an accident while CA was watching her, what would have been the benefit to CA of lying about it? As a nurse, as a grandmother who seemed to love her grandbaby, IMO she would have called 911 immediately and begun life-saving efforts on her own. However, if Caylee died accidentally or through neglect while KC was watching her, and no one else was present, I could see KC attempting to dispose of her and enact some kind of cover-up, especially if she had been thinking of a life without Caylee for some time before.

I just can't see CA as the murderer here. Hope that all makes sense...

Respectfully quoted...

I respect you both and just am wondering, because my mind can't seem to comprehend it--what is the scenario where GA and/or CA are responsible for Caylee's death and the ensuing cover-up? How does it fit with all the details that we know at this point? Or are you thinking that they are complicit in the cover-up but not the death itself? Help! (And TIA!)

I know.. and I know my thoughts are probably wrong and ya'll are probably right but I just can't get it out of my head. Cindy is one sick woman and is a much better liar, victim player and manipulater than the rest of that "family" all put together.

If any of my thinking is correct, Idon't think Casey is covering for anyone- I think Cindy has her scared.

 

[Carolina Girl]

I respectfully have to disagree with anyone that thinks Cindy or George had anything to do with Caylee leaving us. They are really weird, but, no way they would have ignored that for over a month, not even for ICA. IMO.

 

[ynotdivein]

Hot dang, WBG and OLG, I thought I had conquered my insomnia for the evening but... let us joust theoretically.

I know you're asking OLG but I'll give my versions of what may be but they may not reflect OLG's.

1. CA came home from her visit to Mt. Dora and eventually ended up in the pool with Caylee. KC came home late and the fight ensued and both of them lost sight of Caylee and she returned to the pool by herself.

And then what? Who bagged Caylee and put the duct tape on her mouth? How did CA and KC decide that KC would take the fall for that? KC has never taken the fall, even 7 months pregnant. Her mom's been the one to take the fall, and she didn't step up on this one...

2. KC left the house alone the night of the 15th. CA left for work the morning of the 16th leaving GA in charge of Caylee. Something happened to Caylee during this time involving the pool.

RSBM--Speculation, given the pings, yet compelling, given GA's improbably immaculate recall of what happened & who was wearing what the morning of Monday the 16th (that after the whole fam damly placed Caylee's disappearance at June 9th, right?).

3. Something happened to Caylee while in KC's care and GA helped KC so that she wouldn't have to tell CA that she was responsible for what happened to Caylee.

Hm. Is this supposing or not-supposing that the hazy molestation memories are true? Sorry. In all honesty, I can see KC and GA covering something up from CA more than the other way round. Not saying I buy the molestation thing but once daddy's princess, always daddy's princess, especially when the wicked witch rules the roost.

4. KC did the deed but had somebody else take it from there - whoever it was set the framework of the kidnapping so KC really didn't know the details of where Caylee had been dumped. But she may have provided the laundry bag because she took Caylee away from the house in it but somebody else assisted her beyond that point. AD said that she didn't think KC could handle that alone.

I am sorry, I just can't buy this one. If, as I believe, KC alone was there when Caylee died, intentionally or accidentally, she would not/could not have trusted anyone with that information. Even her mother. Especially her mother. And I just don't believe GA or LA has it in them to tote their daughter's/sister's dead baby out to the local dump site and heave her in, particularly not if she is swaddled in trash bags and duct tape that link directly back to the Anthony household.

I've speculated that once the Anthony's knew Caylee was no longer alive, they could justify any further actions they took because it was their own business. CA is above the law.

I completely agree.

I also wonder if the fight between Cindy and Casey didn't somehow involve Caylee by accident. Maybe she was in the way got knocked down, hit her head. Or maybe she was in the pool when the fight went down and they were so busy fighting they forgot her and she drowned. Cindy's "perfection gene"- no way would she be able to call and admit she'd been fighting her daughter and let her grandaughter drown. Or Cindy got so upset she choked Caylee too. Hey, if you can choke one person you claim to love so much in anger, you can choke another. Or after Cindy choked Casey, Casey turned and choked Caylee. Again, Cindy's "perfection gene" would keep her from calling 911 and admitting what went down. She can't even admit to fighting with Casey. There is something to that fight IMO

OLG, you are so right about the "perfection gene." No way would CA call and admit she had been fighting her daughter, and no way could she admit that she suspects her daughter has killed her granddaughter. I cannot believe that CA herself choked Caylee but I can well believe that KC reenacted upon her daughter something that her mother had done to her, and I believe that CA would be aware of such a thing and yet be too caught up in "perfection" to admit to it....

I keep hearing casey's voice saying to her mother "What do you mean you don't know what my involvement is?" and "don't worry, I didn't tell 'em anything"

I heard "What do you mean you don't know what my involvement is?" as an attempt at complete denial. "You think I'm INVOLVED? You 'don't know what my involvement is'?"

As for "Don't worry, I didn't tell 'em anything"... well. Thereby may hang a tail, as my grandma would have said. Could refer to something as easy as interfamilial rancor. Could refer to as yet untold mysteries (Lee saying to KC, "This isn't like last time")... Could be a whack-job saying something she knows is guaranteed to prick up LE's ears.

 

[RR0004]

This is the one conflict (both GA and CA) that I can never clear outta my head. At first I never could have thought the grandparents would have anything to do with whatever happened to Caylee but after observing their behavior, hearing the peculiar one liners they have uttered and witnessing all of their lies as well as supporting KC's lies, I can't outrule the possibility that the whole family devised the script after whatever happened happened.

I'm in the minority I know - I guess I'm lacking common sense - but something's not kosher with these people. GA has his secret that he gave KC permission to reveal if she felt she must. CA saying she didn't want to loose her husband. Knowing CA's perfection at all costs status and how she thinks she's above the law. By the way, where is the second car seat? The one that was in CA's car? Or if the one in KC's car is the one that was in CA's car, then where is KC's? Little things like that that should have an easy answer but have never been answered. It's the little things that don't make sense (and the big ones like cleaning the car instead of calling the police right THEN and there) that don't add up if you ask me.

It's impossible for me to think that GA and CA would never do this or that after following/observing how they behave. I wouldn't put anything past them to think they can outwit or control whatever it is they are trying to as far as influencing the outcome they want to see happen. It's hard for me to fathom why people have such faith in them and believe their versions of how the days of June 15, 16 and 17 unfolded. I don't get it. Peeps believe they told the truth about those days but lie about everything else? I don't think so.

Maybe they are the types that would throw their own daughter under the bus and not the other way around. It's possible. I can't shake the feeling that one of them is guilty of something too.

What's really scary...IMHO George does know a lot about a lot of things.

 

[ynotdivein]

What's really scary...IMHO George does know a lot about a lot of things.

RR, you're right. He does. "George, I think... I think you're a guy who knows a lot... about a lot of things..." (John Allen 8/08)...

And CA would toss GA under a bus in a hot second, to save her daughter or herself. No matter what she knows.

 

[Leila]

Respectfully snipped Leila....entire post is spot on...



Why didn't GA/CA/LA want to take a LDT? Well GA/CA agreed to, it was LA who changed their minds. I always thought something was up with that. Why wouldn't they clear themselves??? When a person has nothing to hide, they hide nothing...JMHO

Then I believe in this physical altercation between CA/ICA...that is what drove ICA do to the unthinkable. If she left in a rage this night, do you really think this date would not be front and center on their minds.

I also don't like the statement from CA, where she tells ICA, I've already given you 30 days...your not getting one more day! When did CA give ICA 30 days. Does she mean when ICA left with Caylee to bond? If she does what date is that??? These people can't remember the last time they saw their daughter and granddaughter walking out of the home but GA can remember what they both wore the last time he saw them leave the home....is unrealistic to me. In as much as we've found out about CA, her controls on her family, I just don't think she wouldn't have looked for her earlier..On July 3, 2008 CA sends Lee to look for his sister...and she allows another 10-12 days to pass without speaking to Caylee??

We're missing a piece of information and I doubt we'll get it from this family. Which is why LE had such a hard hurdle to overcome. Getting bits and pieces from friends, strangers trying to put this puzzle together. ICA purposefully led them astray thinking Caylee would never be found...at least I believe that's what she was counting on...Another reason she got to spend 6 hours a day at her attorneys office, to get away from CA , the home and the spot where she put Caylee...JMHO



JMHO

Justice for Caylee

ETA:
Also GA added more to his last time he saw Caylee over time. He remembers he fed her breakfast before seeing ICA leave with Caylee putting her into her car seat...JMHO

ITA I also think that JB has known from the beginning that it was very risky to let ICA and CA spend too much time together. He knew of their caustic relationship and feared some sort of heated confrontation that might jeopardize the defense case. I think that's one reason why he allowed ICA to spend so much time at his office.

 

[OneLostGrl]

ETA-I don't know what happened to this post ..

 

[OneLostGrl]

I respectfully have to disagree with anyone that thinks Cindy or George had anything to do with Caylee leaving us. They are really weird, but, no way they would have ignored that for over a month, not even for ICA. IMO.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me... not trying to get anyone to see anything my way or trying to talk anyone into anything. But they have sure ignored other quite serious issues for far longer amounts of time and were quite shocked and angry when others didn't want to play the game their way.

 

[Openmyeyes]

OLG, the 2 options you suggest are quite plausible, in fact, I really do think your first scenario could be how things went down. There were so many references to activities in that backyard, including landscaping, that it is difficult to ignore.

Since the 911 calls, I have believed that the family absolutely knew what happened but were focused on keeping themselves out of jail.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I tried to find a thread with the name 'Joy Wray' in the title but it's locked.
In the Video JW made in May 2009 that was released today she says that George is her daughter's godfather. Usually you pick a godfather when a child is a baby and they attend the child's Christening. Has JW known GA a long time or is she just calling him her daughter's godfather now for some reason? Geez.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

What's really scary...IMHO George does know a lot about a lot of things.

Do you know who said that to George? Was it a FBI guy or LE?

Either one must know more than we know considering they said that to George. Therefore, whatever it is George knows that they know. I wonder what exactly was meant by that remark. :waitasec: ooooh I really want to know.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

RR, you're right. He does. "George, I think... I think you're a guy who knows a lot... about a lot of things..." (John Allen 8/08)...

And CA would toss GA under a bus in a hot second, to save her daughter or herself. No matter what she knows.

Do you know who said that to George? Was it a FBI guy or LE?

Either one must know more than we know considering they said that to George. Therefore, whatever it is George knows that they know. I wonder what exactly was meant by that remark. :waitasec: ooooh I really want to know.

I see you've already answered my question - thank you. :blushing:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

KC said to her mom - you don't know what my involvement is? (rising voice)

It was a question but not really. That's how I heard it anyway. It seemed to me to be a rhetorical question. KC was saying to her mom to quit the charade because her mom knows exactly what KC's involvement is. imo.

 

[Intermezzo]

KC said to her mom - you don't know what my involvement is? (rising voice)

It was a question but not really. That's how I heard it anyway. It seemed to me to be a rhetorical question. KC was saying to her mom to quit the charade because her mom knows exactly what KC's involvement is. imo.

BBM
Hi Woe
To me that came across like Casey getting very pissed off that she thought Cindy was accusing her like LE was and that's why she was sitting in Jail..it was not her, Casey's, fault..
Rhetorical? Yes, I agree.

 

[jon_burrows]

KC said to her mom - you don't know what my involvement is? (rising voice)

It was a question but not really. That's how I heard it anyway. It seemed to me to be a rhetorical question. KC was saying to her mom to quit the charade because her mom knows exactly what KC's involvement is. imo.

It's funny how we can all hear the exact same words but interpret them very differently. I thought Casey was berating CA for having the audacity to say such a thing. Casey said Zany took her and that's what CA should believe. Casey was ticked that CA questioned her credibility and she was furious that she did it during one of her 'cameos'. Casey was combative, rude, obnoxious, and showed no signs of being afraid of Cindy. It was like Cindy was walking on egg shells so she wouldn't upset Casey.

Casey goes on to say something like are you *ing kidding me, I don't know where she is.

IMO

 

[AZlawyer]

It's funny how we can all hear the exact same words but interpret them very differently. I thought Casey was berating CA for having the audacity to say such a thing. Casey said Zany took her and that's what CA should believe. Casey was ticked that CA questioned her credibility and she was furious that she did it during one of her 'cameos'. Casey was combative, rude, obnoxious, and showed no signs of being afraid of Cindy. It was like Cindy was walking on egg shells so she wouldn't upset Casey.

Casey goes on to say something like are you *ing kidding me, I don't know where she is.

IMO

This is how I heard it too. To reword her comment: "Mom, how can you say you don't know what my involvement is, when I spend hours and hours explaining to you and the police exactly what happened? Telling the media that you don't know what my involvement is is the same as saying 'we assume Casey is lying to us, but we don't know why.'"

 

[Snaz]

It's funny how we can all hear the exact same words but interpret them very differently. I thought Casey was berating CA for having the audacity to say such a thing. Casey said Zany took her and that's what CA should believe. Casey was ticked that CA questioned her credibility and she was furious that she did it during one of her 'cameos'. Casey was combative, rude, obnoxious, and showed no signs of being afraid of Cindy. It was like Cindy was walking on egg shells so she wouldn't upset Casey.

Casey goes on to say something like are you *ing kidding me, I don't know where she is.

IMO

This is exactly how I took it, as well.....

 

[watcher9]

I tried to find a thread with the name 'Joy Wray' in the title but it's locked.
In the Video JW made in May 2009 that was released today she says that George is her daughter's godfather. Usually you pick a godfather when a child is a baby and they attend the child's Christening. Has JW known GA a long time or is she just calling him her daughter's godfather now for some reason? Geez.

I heard this on the video also and wondered the same thing. I don't remember talking about that before.

Is GA really JW's daughter's godfather and for how long?