2010.09.21 Doc release: Interview - Joe Jordan

[Carolina Girl]

RR, I do believe you are close...If not, I am off base also.

 

[nums24]

Also I listed the eleven forms LE took from TM on the interview with TM thread.
The interviews are not independent of one another so until you hear both of them, JJ's and TM's, you don't get the complete picture.

I want to read the LB interview - is there one? Going to look.

I haven't found one yet, please post it if you do. TIA!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Ok...can someone tell me if I got this straight...JJ says now that there was water and he could not search...the defense team took words he said and twisted them to fit their sorry a$$ case (and leaked to the press)...JJ got whiff of something being amiss...taped a phone conversation with someone from the defense...the State wouldn't listen because it was recorded without consent. Am I close?

I'm missing the part regarding how JJ ended up talking to LE. Oh I just remembered that JJ called LE because he feared he was in trouble for recording his meeting with his Lawyer and the defense's PI. JJ claims he was recording for his own purposes. Now, I ask, why was JJ visiting the Defense PI with his Lawyer in the first place?

Can someone fill in this blank please? _______________________

LE told JJ that yes it was against the law to tape other people without their consent but the people would have to bring charges for that to happen. In the meantime, they told JJ that now that they know the tape exists, and they are investigating whether or not the defense could be involved in falsifying search forms, that if JJ erased the tape he'd be breaking the law twice (destroying evidence).

LE wanted to listen to the tape (I think) but the main thing they wanted was for JJ to come to explain his map to them in person, that is, explain exactly where he had searched. LE had a copy of the map and later obtained the original from TM's files.

JJ was clear to LE that he felt the PI was trying to lead him in the direction of saying the area had not been under water and had been thoroughly searched and that Caylee wasn't there.

Can anybody add to this synopsis or correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I haven't found one yet, please post it if you do. TIA!

No interview of LB yet that I can find.

 

[logicalgirl]

I'm missing the part regarding how JJ ended up talking to LE. Oh I just remembered that JJ called LE because he feared he was in trouble for recording his meeting with his Lawyer and the defense's PI. JJ claims he was recording for his own purposes. Now, I ask, why was JJ visiting the Defense PI with his Lawyer in the first place?

Can someone fill in this blank please? _______________________

LE told JJ that yes it was against the law to tape other people without their consent but the people would have to bring charges for that to happen. In the meantime, they told JJ that now that they know the tape exists, and they are investigating whether or not the defense could be involved in falsifying search forms, that if JJ erased the tape he'd be breaking the law twice (destroying evidence).

LE wanted to listen to the tape (I think) but the main thing they wanted was for JJ to come to explain his map to them in person, that is, explain exactly where he had searched. LE had a copy of the map and later obtained the original from TM's files.

JJ was clear to LE that he felt the PI was trying to lead him in the direction of saying the area had not been under water and had been thoroughly searched and that Caylee wasn't there.

Can anybody add to this synopsis or correct me if I'm wrong?

Yes, but wasn't Laura B. also saying she searched on the same team as JJ and he says no, did not, doesn't remember her.

Somewhere in my head I thought the different form came to light when LDB went to do a depo with Laura or interview her and she gave them a different form than they had in their TES records.

In the other hand I could be completely confusing two different events, which is why I am asking for clarification. We often hear things in hearings that don't make sense then or we don't twig to them as being important, and then we get a doc dump and say - oh - that's what that was about.

I just know there was something behind Baez's hoopla last week introducing the new lawyers and grinning under his "shield" - just trying to figure out if it is this or the JAC motion.

 

[nums24]

I'm missing the part regarding how JJ ended up talking to LE. Oh I just remembered that JJ called LE because he feared he was in trouble for recording his meeting with his Lawyer and the defense's PI. JJ claims he was recording for his own purposes. Now, I ask, why was JJ visiting the Defense PI with his Lawyer in the first place?

Can someone fill in this blank please? The defense investigator contacted him first on 10/27/09

LE told JJ that yes it was against the law to tape other people without their consent but the people would have to bring charges for that to happen. In the meantime, they told JJ that now that they know the tape exists, and they are investigating whether or not the defense could be involved in falsifying search forms, that if JJ erased the tape he'd be breaking the law twice (destroying evidence).

LE wanted to listen to the tape (I think) but the main thing they wanted was for JJ to come to explain his map to them in person, that is, explain exactly where he had searched. LE had a copy of the map and later obtained the original from TM's files.

JJ was clear to LE that he felt the PI was trying to lead him in the direction of saying the area had not been under water and had been thoroughly searched and that Caylee wasn't there.

Can anybody add to this synopsis or correct me if I'm wrong?

BBM in Red

The defense filed this motion 11/23/09: http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21703813/detail.html

The state responded with this motion: http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21913645/detail.html

Here are two other reference articles about JJ & LB:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2009/1...atements-of-joseph-jordan-and-laura-buchanan/

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2009/12/11/a-second-look-at-joseph-jordan/

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Yes, but wasn't Laura B. also saying she searched on the same team as JJ and he says no, did not, doesn't remember her.

Somewhere in my head I thought the different form came to light when LDB went to do a depo with Laura or interview her and she gave them a different form than they had in their TES records.

Snipped ~

1. Yes. That's why LE went and collected the search forms for TM's office.

2. I'm not sure either. Did LDB say she was deposing LB or did she simply say that during a deposition a strange form turned up? At the time, LDB was explained to JP how not having all the discovery was slowing down their efforts to complete their work; defense claims the same.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

BBM in Red

The defense filed this motion 11/23/09: http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21703813/detail.html

The state responded with this motion: http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21913645/detail.html

Here are two other reference articles about JJ & LB:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2009/1...atements-of-joseph-jordan-and-laura-buchanan/

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2009/12/11/a-second-look-at-joseph-jordan/

Thank you nums24. I'll read the links now.
A fishing trip ???
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Okay then. Valhall sure is good at recording the case in a streamlined way.
Well, we know TES did have documents covering a JJ search on 9/1/08 and LB on 9/3 and 9/5 BUT she was not assigned that area by TES and claims to have gone there on her own. LE has obtained copies of the documents in question.

If JJ really felt he had thoroughly searched the area which he now denies he ever did, I don't know why he would back down. The water levels are on record from several sources.

The day Caylee was found, December 11, 2008, did either of these two people rush to call LE to tell them 'we searched there back in September and didn't find anything?'
If I was so sure that I had stood/walked right by/near that spot (not 15 feet out from the 'jungle') I would have done that.

My only question is then, how did RK get close enough in in August to see something if nobody else did/could?

All of the players in this case sure are confusing things if nothing else. I sure hope the truth comes out.

 

[nums24]

Yes, but wasn't Laura B. also saying she searched on the same team as JJ and he says no, did not, doesn't remember her.

Somewhere in my head I thought the different form came to light when LDB went to do a depo with Laura or interview her and she gave them a different form than they had in their TES records.

In the other hand I could be completely confusing two different events, which is why I am asking for clarification. We often hear things in hearings that don't make sense then or we don't twig to them as being important, and then we get a doc dump and say - oh - that's what that was about.

I just know there was something behind Baez's hoopla last week introducing the new lawyers and grinning under his "shield" - just trying to figure out if it is this or the JAC motion.

BBM - LG, you are right, LDB stated that she had to suspend the LB deposition because LB had a document that LKB had never seen before. JB's hoopla was to get the attention his ego craves, IMO.

 

[jerseygirl48]

I'm missing the part regarding how JJ ended up talking to LE. Oh I just remembered that JJ called LE because he feared he was in trouble for recording his meeting with his Lawyer and the defense's PI. JJ claims he was recording for his own purposes. Now, I ask, why was JJ visiting the Defense PI with his Lawyer in the first place?

Can someone fill in this blank please? _______________________

LE told JJ that yes it was against the law to tape other people without their consent but the people would have to bring charges for that to happen. In the meantime, they told JJ that now that they know the tape exists, and they are investigating whether or not the defense could be involved in falsifying search forms, that if JJ erased the tape he'd be breaking the law twice (destroying evidence).

LE wanted to listen to the tape (I think) but the main thing they wanted was for JJ to come to explain his map to them in person, that is, explain exactly where he had searched. LE had a copy of the map and later obtained the original from TM's files.

JJ was clear to LE that he felt the PI was trying to lead him in the direction of saying the area had not been under water and had been thoroughly searched and that Caylee wasn't there.

Can anybody add to this synopsis or correct me if I'm wrong?

Here's what I think happened:

-- Almost immediately after the body was found, JJ sent LE (JA, I think) an email saying he had searched the area in September and the body was not there.

-- He did some sort of interview with the press as well -- I remember seeing the tape but can't find it now.

He was JB's dream come true!​

-- At some later (unknown by me) point, he realized that he had NOT searched the exact same area. I think his explanation was that the TV made it seem as if the body was found very close to the street. He later found out that the body was ~50 feet from the street and recanted his original story, saying that his group never got more than 5 or 10 feet from the street because of high water.

Poor JB's dream is dissolving.​

-- He was contacted by LB who was encouraging him to talk to JB. He says he doesn't remember searching with her ... JJ very suspicious ... asked her not to call again.

-- Some time goes by and he's contacted by MS (AL investigator) for an interview. He's smart enough to do the interview in his atty's office. He secretly taped the meeting, not knowing it was against the law (he did it for his own note taking purposes).

-- At the meeting at his atty's office, MS shows JJ a TES form that he believes may have been falsified, so he contacts LE and ends up speaking to EE. EE is all over the potential falsification angle ... and then JJ mentions the tape. EE tells him the tape was illegal and that JJ needs to talk to JJ's atty about it, and EE will follow up on his end with regard to next steps.

-- Next day, EE sets up an official taped interview (the one that was released yesterday). You can put much of the above together from listening to the tape. A lot of time is spent on the "taping" situation -- JJ is freaking out that it might become a public record (he admits to discussing his divorce/child custody case in front of MS ... I'm wondering just what he said about his ex-wife ). EE is trying to make sure he doesn't destroy the tape. EE is again very interested in the circumstances surrounding the potentially falsified docs -- but also exactly when/where/etc. JJ searched. JJ tells EE his whole story.

-- Shortly thereafter, LDB files a motion to seal the illegal recording. No one objects -- in fact, MS and JJ's atty express in writing that they do not wish to see criminal charges filed (it would appear that NONE of them wanted the tape to come out!!). No one has ever heard the tape ... no one ever will hear the tape unless the seal is overturned (unlikely, I suspect).

We don't have enough info yet to know if there's sufficient evidence that the TES form was falsified. Sounds to me like LB was in possession of something that TES doesn't have ... but, TM admitted that some team leaders fail to turn everything in. I think it will be, unfortunately, difficult to prove -- but we can hope!!

JJ's second story, and explanation for his first story, is believable and consistent with what everyone else has said. Still, JB is going to attempt to make mincemeat out of the poor guy on the stand due to the story changes.

So ... there are a couple of different angles to this story:

1) JJ's differing stories
2) Did LB search the area? According to TES records, no she did not. According to a TES form that JB has (and that LDB stopped a deposition over), LB was in the area.
3) Was that TES form falsfied and if yes, by whom?

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I can't give links, but I do remember that there was a form LB had that TES didn't a long time ago.

However, it came up in LB's deposition via Skype with the State. She mentioned the form that the State didn't have (and the defense didn't seem to have at the deposition). When it was faxed to LDB, she suspended the deposition.

IIRC... the document had a sticky note that said it was for "Mort".

Obviously, the defense has the form somewhere. I have a large, sneaking suspicion that they want the other names on the forms through their inspection of the files.

Meanwhile, I'm sure the State has turned over the copy of the form to the OCSO for investigation.

I've felt very hinky about LB from the get-go. Something's just not right there. Yet, she seems to be a pivotal person in the "there was no water there" brouhaha.

I think LDB has that covered with all the interviews from TES searchers who are documented for having been there.

 

[nums24]

Excellent summary JerseyGirl! There are so many angles to cover with JJ.

JB was still trying to get the JJ recording in April 2010 and was denied:

http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hi...ecorded Statement of Joe Jordan 4-25-2010.pdf

Here is the order:

http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hi...Recorded Statement of Joe Jordan 4-7-2010.pdf

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Thank you nums24. I'll read the links now.
A fishing trip ???
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Okay then. Valhall sure is good at recording the case in a streamlined way.
Well, we know TES did have documents covering a JJ search on 9/1/08 and LB on 9/3 and 9/5 BUT she was not assigned that area by TES and claims to have gone there on her own. LE has obtained copies of the documents in question.

If JJ really felt he had thoroughly searched the area which he now denies he ever did, I don't know why he would back down. The water levels are on record from several sources.

The day Caylee was found, December 11, 2008, did either of these two people rush to call LE to tell them 'we searched there back in September and didn't find anything?'
If I was so sure that I had stood/walked right by/near that spot (not 15 feet out from the 'jungle') I would have done that.

My only question is then, how did RK get close enough in in August to see something if nobody else did/could?

All of the players in this case sure are confusing things if nothing else. I sure hope the truth comes out.

bumping - read all the links. Thanks.

 

[jerseygirl48]

Thanks Nums. I had forgotten that JB tried to get the tape (and that Mort claims JJ was still spouting his "I searched the area" story). Can the defense call JJ's attorney to pick a side? What a day JJ is going to have in court. Bring on the popcorn!

 

[logicalgirl]

Many thanks to those of you who actually clarified this event with LDB and the differing form and how it intercepts with LB saying she searched this area and JJ declaring he did not, and definitely did not search the area with LB.

Yes, there has been something hinky with LB from the start. My fear is she is just another nutcase who wants some time in the spotlight - her own private 15 minutes of fame, who soon will say, after she has created some waves, and has had lots of exposure, and hopefully some full on media events (think the Today Show etc.,) will end up saying - whoops - I (also) mis-spoke!:liar:

By the way - is there actually a definition of misspoke? We seem to throw it around a bit here - some with tongue in cheek - but if one says something with certainty knowing it is false - that is not misspoke, at least not in my book - it it a lie. It's very easy to say I am not sure, or I could be wrong but.. Why tell a lie unless you have some kind of hidden agenda? :loser:

Down with the word misspoke!:slap:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Thank you nums24. I'll read the links now.
A fishing trip ???
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Okay then. Valhall sure is good at recording the case in a streamlined way.
Well, we know TES did have documents covering a JJ search on 9/1/08 and LB on 9/3 and 9/5 BUT she was not assigned that area by TES and claims to have gone there on her own. LE has obtained copies of the documents in question.

If JJ really felt he had thoroughly searched the area which he now denies he ever did, I don't know why he would back down. The water levels are on record from several sources.

The day Caylee was found, December 11, 2008, did either of these two people rush to call LE to tell them 'we searched there back in September and didn't find anything?'
If I was so sure that I had stood/walked right by/near that spot (not 15 feet out from the 'jungle') I would have done that.

My only question is then, how did RK get close enough in in August to see something if nobody else did/could?

All of the players in this case sure are confusing things if nothing else. I sure hope the truth comes out.

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Here's what I think of JJ. I think he was earnestly trying to find Caylee. He found the polka dot panties on the fence along with some other belongings that looked like they could be associated with this case. He got excited and was hoping to 'be the one to break it wide open.' He meant well but caught a little 'my 15 minutes of fame'. Basically a good guy, all of a sudden, he was in over his head and realized he was being used by the defense. He literally got scared. He humbled himself and apologized to LE for ever inserting himself into their investigation and is sorry if he's messed anything up. In other words, his initial good intentions got out of hand.

ADDING - I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS POST ATTACHED ITSELF TO MY OTHER POST AGAIN!

 

[logicalgirl]

I can't give links, but I do remember that there was a form LB had that TES didn't a long time ago.

However, it came up in LB's deposition via Skype with the State. She mentioned the form that the State didn't have (and the defense didn't seem to have at the deposition). When it was faxed to LDB, she suspended the deposition.

IIRC... the document had a sticky note that said it was for "Mort".

Obviously, the defense has the form somewhere. I have a large, sneaking suspicion that they want the other names on the forms through their inspection of the files.

Meanwhile, I'm sure the State has turned over the copy of the form to the OCSO for investigation.

I've felt very hinky about LB from the get-go. Something's just not right there. Yet, she seems to be a pivotal person in the "there was no water there" brouhaha.

I think LDB has that covered with all the interviews from TES searchers who are documented for having been there.

So is LB the reason the Defense has been insisting all seeing all 4000 searchers forms? I assume she is not on the list of 34 searchers, or is she and JB was planning pretending he found this second form in the records and start hollering "foul" in front of the nearest camera?

Curses - foiled again Baez!

 

[jerseygirl48]

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Here's what I think of JJ. I think he was earnestly trying to find Caylee. He found the polka dot panties on the fence along with some other belongings that looked like they could be associated with this case. He got excited and was hoping to 'be the one to break it wide open.' He meant well but caught a little 'my 15 minutes of fame'. Basically a good guy, all of a sudden, he was in over his head and realized he was being used by the defense. He literally got scared. He humbled himself and apologized to LE for ever inserting himself into their investigation and is sorry if he's messed anything up. In other words, his initial good intentions got out of hand.

ADDING - I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS POST ATTACHED ITSELF TO MY OTHER POST AGAIN!

I think you're right woe.be.gone -- his intentions were undoubtedly good at the start. But, he's twisted himself into a big 'ole mess.

 

[jerseygirl48]

So is LB the reason the Defense has been insisting all seeing all 4000 searchers forms? I assume she is not on the list of 34 searchers, or is she and JB was planning pretending he found this second form in the records and start hollering "foul" in front of the nearest camera?

Curses - foiled again Baez!

I think LB is exactly the reason the Defense now has permission to call all 4000 volunteers. That, and the fact that TM did admit that it's entirely possible that other searchers left without completing all the correct paperwork.

I think it's being handled in exactly the right way -- phone calls with no public disclosure. And, TM has done a few interviews recently where he has, of course, encouraged all volunteers to cooperate and tell the truth.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Below is a link to the Hearing that took place on August 30, 2010 where LDB points out to JP that while she was in the midst of a depo on 8/16, the person she was deposing
(later identified by LDB as LB) produced a third form that was not in the State's file. LDB ended up having to reschedule the hearing.

JP stated, neither the State nor the Defense had a copy.

LDB replied that there was a note on the document that said for Mort (MS) who is the defense teams PI. One can assume then that the Defense did have a copy.
JP did not respond directly to LDB's comment which kind of bugs me.

You can listen for yourself - Pt. 2 is 33.24 mins long. This discussion begins around the 8 min mark.

http://www.wftv.com/video/24825363/index.html

This link was originally posted in Media Links by nums24, post #3836.