2010.09.27 - Issues with JVM discussing bombshell developments in Haleigh Case

[MADJGNLAW]

What is interesting is that Ron thought that was a bunch of bunk (about the man dressed in black.)

Now if he was at work, he didn't know anything, why was he so positive that JR's version wasn't true?

Check out the duo interview he and Misty did on the "Today Show" Ron was almost pissed that the interviewer even asked the question. Now we may know why he was so pissed!

Very interesting.

I agree Levi, it is very interesting and very telling IMO. Lets hope that Jr. will remember all soon. Look at the JonBenet Ramsey case. It is now being said that her older brother was a possible witness in the brutal murder of his sister.
From what GGMS said early on Jr. was taken to see a psychologist-specialist that morning and I think she even said she took him.
CS did not get Jr. until the week after so the story of the man in black happen before he even went to visit with his mother. Now we have Chelsea saying that maybe it was Ronald, she even made a hand gesture explaining Jr.'s version to her. If true, the man in black had a ski mask on and that is why Jr. can't tell who it is.
Ronald kept throwing CS under the bus saying this was not true, that she was making it up, that she was a liar. IMO, he must of know what Jr. said. I highly doubt that GGMS and TN would not tell Ron, hey Jr. said he saw a man in black take Haleigh. Jr. was in his care that first week, not CS's. So, if anyone told Jr. about a man in black it had to come from the Cummings side IMO. Or it was one of the Cummings that had to dress in black so that Jr. would not recognize them....maybe Ron. I would not be one bit surprised.

As for Ron being at work, well yes I believe he went to work. But that does not mean he didn't sneak out of work. If memory serves me right, the time clock was not working that night and the new system was not put in until after Haleigh went missing.
The guard could of been on his dinner/lunch break or in the bathroom. It has been said by KP that Ron snuck out in the past, why wouldn't he sneak out that night? Ron could of left work at midnight.
Note: Timmy was also up around that time, it was mentioned in the Cobra interview that Timmy was awake.
Ron could of left and returned shortly after. It is very very possible, unless he had to work side by side by someone, nobody can say he was there the whole time, 10 1/2 hrs. :cow:
Also, Ron's words to Cobra were that LE questioned Ron's arrival time at the MH that night as well. LE has never once said that Ron was at work all night -from 4:30PM-3:00AM. TJ hart and AH have said that "their sources told them that Ron was at work". LE only said they "THEIR SATISFIED" with Ron's work hours. Heck if he was at work from 4:30PM-3:00AM that would be 10 1/2 hrs that he worked that night. Ron claimed he worked 8hrs, he was making an honest living to support his kids when his child got stolen. I think his pastor at the time had also mentioned at one time that Ron had been at work for 8hrs. Ron's attorney said Ron would leave 30-45min early to get to work, now what company would put someone on the clock that early? And why would Ron leave so early when Haleigh would just be getting home from school? You would think he would want to spend time with his children if he was going to be gone all night. Also, Ron said that he kissed Haleigh good bye and that she would see him when he got home from work. Why would she be up that late? It's little things like this that are said that make me wonder more and more about Ron's involvement in what happen that night.
:cow:

 

[Emma Peel]

I'm missing something here.

Why would Ron wear a ski mask and squeak around his own home to pick up his own daughter in front of Junior? Did Ron plan for Junior to be a witness of the men in black?

And when would that have happened? And how would Ron have gotten to the trailer from work to do that?

To me that has seemed rather desperate on Chelsea's part - to attempt to work backwards from her hearsay interpretation of a 2 year old's gesture and words, and Ron's work clothing and then morphing that into proof of Ron's involvement. Or, more succinctly, smoke & mirrors & wishful thinking.

On this particular point, IMO, Chelsea's been working overtime and needs a nap.

But maybe I'm missing something?

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Agreed Levi!

To me this makes a lot of sense. Ron will always deny anything to do with whatever happened prior to HaLeighs death, IMO.

Just like in the beginning Ron denied the fight over the gun with Joe. One of his first interviews, he says There was no fight with no cousin over no gun.....
Funny, b/c now he has told LE there was in fact a fight over a gun with cousin Joe.

IMO, when Ron says something 9 times out of 10 the truth is the opposite of what he is saying... (did that make sense?)

JMO

Sure does make sense.
Just like he said he never hit CS or any other woman.
He said he never sold drugs.
He said he never used drugs.
He said he never hit his children, then said only the way DCF said he could that Haleigh and him had a daddy/daughter agreement.
Just like he said he had no enemies.
Just like he said he only had 2 children, it seems that there may even be a fourth one from reading an article the the other day. We know about his son from Amber, but the article read Ron's other baby mommas besides CS and Amber. Can't find it off hand, think it was one of AH last week.

And more, just can't think of it all off the top of my head.

 

[lil momma]

I'm missing something here.

Why would Ron wear a ski mask and squeak around his own home to pick up his own daughter in front of Junior? Did Ron plan for Junior to be a witness of the men in black?
And when would that have happened? And how would Ron have gotten to the trailer from work to do that?

To me that has seemed rather desperate on Chelsea's part - to attempt to work backwards from her hearsay interpretation of a 2 year old's gesture and words, and Ron's work clothing and then morphing that into proof of Ron's involvement. Or, more succinctly, smoke & mirrors & wishful thinking.

On this particular point, IMO, Chelsea's been working overtime and needs a nap.

But maybe I'm missing something?

Hi emma!

BBM

IMO, the reason Ron would have had to wear the ski mask is protect himself from JR, seeing that it was Daddy carrying a deceased HaLeigh out the door. Yes, he would be able to say Daddy took HaLeigh out of the house when she was sleeping, Ron's cover is blown.

As far as Ron and working and getting to the MH, its simple, he didn't work ALL of the hours he is claiming to have worked. I think he did report to work that day, worked his 8 hours and left. I think that is why LE asked Ron why it took him so long to get home that night. JMO. LE also said they were satisfied with the hours Ron worked. Not satisfied with Ron and the hours he said he worked.

of course this is all JMO

 

[Dr. Know?]

snipped from Art Harris article re: Chelsea 10/5/09

It was no game. Within hours, she’d raced back to Gainesville to pick up Misty’s mother and hightailed it back to the Sheriff’s Department, where she and Timmy joined the long line of family members for interviews, took polygraphs, and watched Ronald and Misty hand over the clothes they were wearing to police. “Ronald was wearing his company jumpsuit, like a blue work outfit that zipped up the front, and they both went in back and took off everything, including their underwear.”

http://www.artharris.com/2009/10/05/exclusive-inside-the-haleigh-cummings-family-feud/

Sorry if this has already been posted. Playing catch up.

 

[Emma Peel]

Hi emma!

BBM

IMO, the reason Ron would have had to wear the ski mask is protect himself from JR, seeing that it was Daddy carrying a deceased HaLeigh out the door. Yes, he would be able to say Daddy took HaLeigh out of the house when she was sleeping, Ron's cover is blown.

As far as Ron and working and getting to the MH, its simple, he didn't work ALL of the hours he is claiming to have worked. I think he did report to work that day, worked his 8 hours and left. I think that is why LE asked Ron why it took him so long to get home that night. JMO. LE also said they were satisfied with the hours Ron worked. Not satisfied with Ron and the hours he said he worked.

of course this is all JMO

Hi Lil' momma! Thanks for explaining what people are thinking for this scenario.

So rather then locking Jr. in with Misty to distract him, saving Jr. the ordeal of seeing his sister carried off, Ron sets his 2 year old son up as a witness?

I guess I understand the proposed scenario. I don't see it as reasonable to stage an abduction of a dead Haleigh for the sake of a 2 year old. Perhaps you're thinking Ron dressed for a long stint in the woods?

I'm also held back by the fact that LE does not seem to think Haleigh was dead in the MH ...

If this is the case, then I expect Misty or Tommy to finally name Ron in the disposal of Haleigh very very soon.

I've snuck in my own kids rooms with Easter Bunny Ears on and even with a Christmas Elf hat to try to deposit a stocking or eggs ...and they've actually picked up on it and talked about what they saw in the morning. It's hilarious of course. But, sneaking and squeaking around in your own house as a murdering abductor ... that's just ... beyond my imagination. :crazy:

 

[dodie20]

I don't think Ron sneaked in & retrieved Haleigh. That's too much for me to wrap my mind around. Back when I was suspecting Ron a lot more, I thought he might've gotten a trusted friend to do it, but it seems now, that he didn't have any outside friends...just family & Misty & family. & then when Lindsey told Tommy that she had cleaned house, (by throwing his & Timmy's work boots away), I got real curious about how much Tommy's boots squeaked. sorry, but when you suspect someone, even the little things start pointing in that direction. But realistically, wouldn't he have already thrown those boots away, if he had used them in Haleigh's abduction, murder, or disposal? IDK, because Tommy's an odd one. Maybe when he told Lindsey that they still had some good use left to them, he literally meant just that. Why throw away boots, that can still be worn? Why throw away perfectly good rope, that you might need some day? Why pay for brillo pads, when you can just swipe them from a neighbor?

 

[Donjeta]

Not sure I think that Ron took Haleigh away. It would explain why he was so sure that Crystal was lying about the man in black although he was at work but I don't see why Chelsea put Ron AND Tommy AND Joe in the disposal duty. How many people does it take?

But imo if he did it would make sense to try to conceal his appearance because he wouldn't like Jr. or any of the neighbors to see him. The neighbors might be a small risk at that time of night but you never know. Having a child see a mysterious stranger would strengthen the stranger abduction theory and having Misty distracting Jr. in another room would not work if your plan is to say that Misty was asleep and that's all she knows.

Anyway, this mostly goes for Tommy and Joe and anybody else as well. None of them would want Jr. or the neighbors possibly identifying them later.

The risk: some of the neighbors see a man in skimask and call the police based on the theory that men in skimasks are up to no good. But it might have been difficult for them to see too clearly in the dark if they were even awake at the time and maybe if there was a skimask used in the presence of Jr. it could have been taken off once they got away from him.

 

[snoopydoo]

So rather then locking Jr. in with Misty to distract him, saving Jr. the ordeal of seeing his sister carried off, Ron sets his 2 year old son up as a witness?

I guess I understand the proposed scenario. I don't see it as reasonable to stage an abduction of a dead Haleigh for the sake of a 2 year old. Perhaps you're thinking Ron dressed for a long stint in the woods?

Yeah, that does seem to be quite a stretch. I rather prefer the hypothesis you put forth in another thread regarding ToC.

-Tommy put himself at the MH early in the evening at RC's behest.
-Tommy put himself at the MH when the child was abducted.
-Tommy put himself at the disposal site.
-Tommy confessed, ahem, that Joe did it.

I'm not aware of any exculpatory evidence that would clear ToC, nor would we need some rather bizarre theories as to how he could be culpable, all that's really missing with ToC being the culprit is a motive. IMO, the reason LE keeps saying that Misty is the key is because they believe ToC is the culprit but they need her to pin it on him. Unfortunately, for both MC and LE, Misty may not have been there or may not have been conscious and/or coherent during crucial time periods or events of that evening.

One thing I'm fairly certain of is that LE has let all the players know through their attorneys that they'll walk if they're just an accessory after the fact. I'm also fairly certain that no one is keeping their mouth shut out of fear, love, loyalty or whatnot. So that basically links knowledge of what happened with direct culpability, i.e. whoever knows what happened is the guilty party. So far, ToC is the only one claiming to have direct knowledge of the crime and I think that's why MC keeps insisting that LE talk to him. Whether because MC saw ToC at the MH, or through some other way knows he was there, in her mind she's probably thinking he has the answer.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

For those that missed JVM last night here are the videos!
A big Thanks to Patty G for these videos! :blowkiss:

Haleigh Cummings: Issues 9/27/10 Part 1 + 2
From: Sierra1947 | September 27, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKRIIFGT7f4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h8IKyaeCVw

 

[dodie20]

Yeah, that does seem to be quite a stretch. I rather prefer the hypothesis you put forth in another thread regarding ToC.

-Tommy put himself at the MH early in the evening at RC's behest.
-Tommy put himself at the MH when the child was abducted.
-Tommy put himself at the disposal site.
-Tommy confessed, ahem, that Joe did it.

I'm not aware of any exculpatory evidence that would clear ToC, nor would we need some rather bizarre theories as to how he could be culpable, all that's really missing with ToC being the culprit is a motive. IMO, the reason LE keeps saying that Misty is the key is because they believe ToC is the culprit but they need her to pin it on him. Unfortunately, for both MC and LE, Misty may not have been there or may not have been conscious and/or coherent during crucial time periods or events of that evening.

One thing I'm fairly certain of is that LE has let all the players know through their attorneys that they'll walk if they're just an accessory after the fact. I'm also fairly certain that no one is keeping their mouth shut out of fear, love, loyalty or whatnot. So that basically links knowledge of what happened with direct culpability, i.e. whoever knows what happened is the guilty party. So far, ToC is the only one claiming to have direct knowledge of the crime and I think that's why MC keeps insisting that LE talk to him. Whether because MC saw ToC at the MH, or through some other way knows he was there, in her mind she's probably thinking he has the answer.

Yeah, that does seem to be quite a stretch. I rather prefer the hypothesis you put forth in another thread regarding ToC.

-Tommy put himself at the MH early in the evening at RC's behest.
-Tommy put himself at the MH when the child was abducted.
-Tommy put himself at the disposal site.
-Tommy confessed, ahem, that Joe did it.

I'm not aware of any exculpatory evidence that would clear ToC, nor would we need some rather bizarre theories as to how he could be culpable, all that's really missing with ToC being the culprit is a motive. IMO, the reason LE keeps saying that Misty is the key is because they believe ToC is the culprit but they need her to pin it on him. Unfortunately, for both MC and LE, Misty may not have been there or may not have been conscious and/or coherent during crucial time periods or events of that evening.

One thing I'm fairly certain of is that LE has let all the players know through their attorneys that they'll walk if they're just an accessory after the fact. I'm also fairly certain that no one is keeping their mouth shut out of fear, love, loyalty or whatnot. So that basically links knowledge of what happened with direct culpability, i.e. whoever knows what happened is the guilty party. So far, ToC is the only one claiming to have direct knowledge of the crime and I think that's why MC keeps insisting that LE talk to him. Whether because MC saw ToC at the MH, or through some other way knows he was there, in her mind she's probably thinking he has the answer.

uh-huh...Tommy's the one with the details. & I don't think the others are keeping quiet, because they're so smart. From the beginning, Misty's been lacking in details. She was asleep, didn't know anything, then a year later, she backs up Tommy's Joe did it story, but not very convincingly, IMO. But there is the whole blanket thing, & her covering Haleigh with a sheet thing to consider. Did she play a part? probably. But, at 1st, I believed her tears & her assurances that she wouldn't hurt Haleigh. Was that sincere, or the after effects of a regretful teenager? her just wanting to take it all back & issued a do over. I've been one of her strongest supporters, but now that she's finally laid blame, I'm not convinced of her innocence. If Tommy did something, & she knew it, would she help him? I don't think so. So, she was either gone, sound asleep, or she's guilty of something. If Misty did something, & Tommy knew it, would he help her? I think so. But after all of this time, & the trouble he's created for himself, I think he would've fessed up-especially after being called a suspect in court. If he didn't murder Haleigh, where's his self preservation? The only self preservation I see, is Tommy scrambling for his life, & IMO, hoping that 15 years, is the least of his worries. Logic tells me that if it was Ron, he would've told his attorney. Werter believes everything he says, so why not? The same thing if he's covering for Misty. Tommy has done everything, but flat out confess, & there would be no reason in H*** for him to maximize his involvement-not to protect anybody. so, I see him as minimizing his involvement.

 

[1Chump]

I no more believe Haleigh got into any pills and took them on her own. If she put one in her mouth she would spit it out immediately because it would be so bitter.

I think Chelsea is selling nonsense trying to cover the Croslins' butts.

IMO

I do not believe Haleigh got into any pills on her own.

However, the comment about immediately spitting them out because they taste bitter is not true. The only way you can "taste" them is to chew them than allow them to start dissolving. I checked both my oxy and vicodin after I heard TN's comments because I had never noticed any taste.

I think Chelsea does not know what really happened and is just repeating storeis she is told.

 

[cyberborg]

I am on the fence but ... Ron has just been sentenced to 15 years and Misty is coming up soon for sentencing and could get 50+ years ... motive?

Chelsea is trying to save Misty from a long prolonged sentence and maybe there is some truth in her statements ... that Ron is involved but as others have said, Misty has only shared a little or does not know everything?

IMHO Chelsea is either genuinely asking Misty to tell the truth OR Chelsea is trying to send a message to Misty to NOT reveal the full truth (being under LE pressure) and in return she is publicly floating the OD story to mitigate her sentence.

Chelsea could be saying, you are going down anyway Misty so please don't take my family with you.....

 

[dodie20]

I do not believe Haleigh got into any pills on her own.

However, the comment about immediately spitting them out because they taste bitter is not true. The only way you can "taste" them is to chew them than allow them to start dissolving. I checked both my oxy and vicodin after I heard TN's comments because I had never noticed any taste.

I think Chelsea does not know what really happened and is just repeating storeis she is told.

Also, Chelsea earlier claimed that Ron kept pills all over that house. No way, do druggies do that. If anything, they keep them locked in a safe, & I know a lady who does just that. Ron would never have taken a chance of being robbed, & I don't think he left anything in an unlocked dresser drawer...just so Misty could share them out? But, Chelsea did go from 'all over the house', to a dresser drawer...so maybe she had 2nd thoughts about that earlier accusation?

 

[cyberborg]

This would certainly explain why RC was so quick to dismiss Jr saying this. It was a huge red flag to me when he was on the Today Show and didn't even toy with the notion it was possible. If I'd heard my child said this, possibly was a witness, I'd be finding a professional to talk to him more. His immediate response that CS was lying made me think there was some truth behind it.

BBM.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Ron dismissed a LOT of possibilities way too quickly which reinforced in my mind that he knew the real story. You'd be open to anything and everything ... unless you knew better.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Yeah, that does seem to be quite a stretch. I rather prefer the hypothesis you put forth in another thread regarding ToC.

-Tommy put himself at the MH early in the evening at RC's behest.
-Tommy put himself at the MH when the child was abducted.
-Tommy put himself at the disposal site.
-Tommy confessed, ahem, that Joe did it.

I'm not aware of any exculpatory evidence that would clear ToC, nor would we need some rather bizarre theories as to how he could be culpable, all that's really missing with ToC being the culprit is a motive. IMO, the reason LE keeps saying that Misty is the key is because they believe ToC is the culprit but they need her to pin it on him. Unfortunately, for both MC and LE, Misty may not have been there or may not have been conscious and/or coherent during crucial time periods or events of that evening.

One thing I'm fairly certain of is that LE has let all the players know through their attorneys that they'll walk if they're just an accessory after the fact. I'm also fairly certain that no one is keeping their mouth shut out of fear, love, loyalty or whatnot. So that basically links knowledge of what happened with direct culpability, i.e. whoever knows what happened is the guilty party. So far, ToC is the only one claiming to have direct knowledge of the crime and I think that's why MC keeps insisting that LE talk to him. Whether because MC saw ToC at the MH, or through some other way knows he was there, in her mind she's probably thinking he has the answer.

Hi snoopydoo! Just wanted to say Excellent post and I am agreeing with ALLOT of what you you have eloquently pointed out! Again Thanks for this Great Post!

 

[dodie20]

Yeah, that does seem to be quite a stretch. I rather prefer the hypothesis you put forth in another thread regarding ToC.

-Tommy put himself at the MH early in the evening at RC's behest.
-Tommy put himself at the MH when the child was abducted.
-Tommy put himself at the disposal site.
-Tommy confessed, ahem, that Joe did it.

I'm not aware of any exculpatory evidence that would clear ToC, nor would we need some rather bizarre theories as to how he could be culpable, all that's really missing with ToC being the culprit is a motive. IMO, the reason LE keeps saying that Misty is the key is because they believe ToC is the culprit but they need her to pin it on him. Unfortunately, for both MC and LE, Misty may not have been there or may not have been conscious and/or coherent during crucial time periods or events of that evening.

One thing I'm fairly certain of is that LE has let all the players know through their attorneys that they'll walk if they're just an accessory after the fact. I'm also fairly certain that no one is keeping their mouth shut out of fear, love, loyalty or whatnot. So that basically links knowledge of what happened with direct culpability, i.e. whoever knows what happened is the guilty party. So far, ToC is the only one claiming to have direct knowledge of the crime and I think that's why MC keeps insisting that LE talk to him. Whether because MC saw ToC at the MH, or through some other way knows he was there, in her mind she's probably thinking he has the answer.

Tommy claims that he was so high on xanax, that he passed in & out of consciousness, so those drugs added to a predisposition for badness, may be all the motive it took.

 

[cyberborg]

The thing is ...

Chelsea is not going on national TV to beg ToC to tell the truth and save Misty (them).

Chelsea is begging Misty to tell the truth because she is going down anyway and to take Ron with her, clarifying Misty's infatuation.

If Chelsea knows something (and I think she does) she also thinks that Misty is the key and ToC is just a bit player at best ... after the fact? If Misty knows what happened then Chelsea is the most likely person that she would confide some info with.

Misty would want to share a little with a fellow female and with Chelsea being a 'sister' she is the most likely confidant -- unlike her Mother, Donna, etc.

On that basis IMHO it places the focus totally on Misty and Ron ... unless Chelsea knows nothing and was not involved at all.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I do not believe Haleigh got into any pills on her own.

However, the comment about immediately spitting them out because they taste bitter is not true. The only way you can "taste" them is to chew them than allow them to start dissolving. I checked both my oxy and vicodin after I heard TN's comments because I had never noticed any taste.

I think Chelsea does not know what really happened and is just repeating stories she is told.

I have found children Haleigh's age do not like to take medication in pill form. That is why the medication given to them by their pediatrician is mostly in liquid form and is sweetened to make it more palatable for them to take.

I do agree. Chelsea is just being Chelsea and continues to spin tales.

IMO

 

[TxLady2]

Are oxys the only pills that Ron and Misty could have taken and kept around? Aren't there other pills that are almost as popular?