2010.10.11 - JVM show discussing Haleigh case

[Baznme]

They are all drug users, and immature on top of that. We only know part of the story of the marriage and the rat in the mailbox. What we do know is that RC supposedly has an alibi that holds up with LE. Until that circumstance changes, those other issues are "after the fact" events that probably don't tell us much about what happened to Haleigh. Humans always want to connect the dots and turn all of the events in the pile into a coherent narrative. To do that in this case is to ignore the most important point regarding Ron: he has an alibi that has yet to be challenged by LE or anyone else with concrete evidence.

BBM - key word here. "Supposedly". Most important point regarding Ron?....to assume that his alibi has yet to be challenged by LE is an assumption at best and if there is someone with concrete evidence, they have not come forth..........yet. I think LE needs more than circumstantial evidence, they need to find Haleigh and in my eyes, that is the most important point here.

 

[epiphany]

Art said that LE isn't sure what happened & are considering all scenarios...including Misty & Ron. So, if Art's source is reliable, (& I'm thinking it's someone with LE), then Ron's not as in the clear as some think. But it is disheartening to hear that LE doesn't know what happened, but, I'm not surprised. If they knew, they would've arressted someone for murder.

Art listed possible combinations LE is considering for the clean-up:


BBM
http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1010/11/ijvm.01.html

HARRIS: That`s right, Jane. And in fact that`s what law enforcement is entertaining that there are so many combinations possible here: Misty and Tommy; Misty and Ron; Misty, Tommy and Ron; Misty, Tommy, Chelsea and Timmy. I mean they don`t know who could have helped clean this mess up.

 

[justus4all]

Quoted from JVM show 10/11/10...

LEVI PAGE, CRIME BLOGGER & INTERNET RADIO HOST: We can only hope that Misty Croslin will crack and tell exactly what happened to Haleigh Cummings because her story never added up from the very beginning of this case. She`s failed multiple polygraphs, she`s failed the layer voice analysis, hypnosis revealed that she was hiding something. She knows what happened but I got to tell you I think that she was -- one of the low -- lower on the totem poles in this case because I think what they`re trying to do, they`ve always said she is the key. They did not say she is the main one.

ALSO....................quoted from that show...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Art Harris says that she`s now implicating her brother Tommy. You disagree with that, why do you disagree with that?

C. CROSLIN: Because Art Harris is full of crap. Misty`s never once said that Tommy`s the one who did anything to Haleigh. If anything, Misty has said her brother was there that night; her brother did take Haleigh out of the house with Joe. But never said she took her out of the house herself. Misty on her phone call the other night with me told me the whole Joe and Tommy story was a lie when I was yelling at her. She said they keep making me say it. I don`t know who they are. I don`t know if it`s another twist and turn for her story.


bolded by me...

It appears to be of the opinion ...that "others" ...other than Misty..hold the key as well..

Also..Misty is saying she is be MADE..to say some of her "stories"....If so...then WHO IS MAKING HER...and how can "THEY ..MAKE her...I don't believe it is the LE "making her" say stuff...because if they know it is not true, what good does it do them.....Unless it is the Cummings..IMO...the Cummings have warned her..not to tell the truth about ANYTHING..that would implicate THEM....that they were there... Misty is telling on EVERONE...else...Notice she has not mentioned ANY of the Cummings ..The Cummings have mentioned THEMSELVES..They have inserted thenselves and have given their "reasons" they were there (GMMS..) to SAY Haleigh was seen alive..and GMMS to SAY.. Misty was THERE at the MH...hmmmmmm...interesting...In the beginning Misty's story did not include GGMS coming over to the MH..IMO...because the Cummings had warned Misty NOT to say anything about ANY of them being there....all in my own opinion ..JMO....moo...

IMO..because Misty does not know much about what happened...and because Misty again ...IMO..has been warned not to talk..there is just so much Misty can "create" about that night.."limited" people she can say was involved..and ...IMO..her story is just not believeable..and not adding up with the facts the LE already know to be verified....If the LE/atty/ can get Misty to get past her fear..(what ever it is) and tell the truth...This case will "burst" forward....

all in my own opinion...

 

[justus4all]

I guess one reason Misty won't talk is because she says when she did, they (LE) weren't interested or didn't want to hear it. Who was she talking about or trying to implicate? That's the million-dollar question.
And even IF she starts telling the truth... how will they know if it's true or just another story? I've been thinking off and on, maybe she just doesn't know, doesn't remember. Maybe some people have put so many stories in her head for all this time, she just doesn't know what the truth is anymore.
JMO

bolded by me...

Imo...yes, Misty HAS told a lot of stories...but...IMO...they have not added up with what the LE already know what really happened...

How will LE know if it's true ...if she does START talking??

IMO..It will substantiate and put together the "pieces" of what happened..AND..I believe the LE will want a passed LDT from her...

I hope this happens...imo..

 

[lonetraveler]

I think that Chelsea is in a total panic because she knows that if Misty tells the whole truth about the disposal of Haleigh, she will have to tell about Timmy's involvement and maybe her own involvement. I don't think that Misty has much of a problem throwing Tommy under the bus but she is very partial to Timmy and it would really hurt to get him involved. Chelsea wants to see Misty eye-to-eye to plead with her not to divulge any information involving Timmy and maybe herself. I'm talking just the disposal/cleanup here.

 

[lonetraveler]

I guess one reason Misty won't talk is because she says when she did, they (LE) weren't interested or didn't want to hear it. Who was she talking about or trying to implicate? That's the million-dollar question.
And even IF she starts telling the truth... how will they know if it's true or just another story? I've been thinking off and on, maybe she just doesn't know, doesn't remember. Maybe some people have put so many stories in her head for all this time, she just doesn't know what the truth is anymore.
JMO

Ronald Cummings

 

[justus4all]

I think that Chelsea is in a total panic because she knows that if Misty tells the whole truth about the disposal of Haleigh, she will have to tell about Timmy's involvement and maybe her own involvement. I don't think that Misty has much of a problem throwing Tommy under the bus but she is very partial to Timmy and it would really hurt to get him involved. Chelsea wants to see Misty eye-to-eye to plead with her not to divulge any information involving Timmy and maybe herself. I'm talking just the disposal/cleanup here.

Perhaps I am missing something here...but if Chelsea..has recently spoken to Misty on the phone..and apparently these phone conversations are recorded that is preventing Misty from "telling the real story"...wouldn't Chelsea realize that even is she were eye-to-eye with Misty, the survellience video/audio would be recording what she wants to say to Misty..ANYWAY....

It seems to me that since Chelsea is able to talk to Misty on the phone, she could "get her message"..."across"..to Misty..without saying certain things that could be damaging.....KWIM??...You can "talk"...without realy "talking"...

But good point!!!!!......moo

 

[TxLady2]

bolded by me...

Imo...yes, Misty HAS told a lot of stories...but...IMO...they have not added up with what the LE already know what really happened...

How will LE know if it's true ...if she does START talking??

IMO..It will substantiate and put together the "pieces" of what happened..AND..I believe the LE will want a passed LDT from her...

I hope this happens...imo..

But they DON'T KNOW what really happened... if they did, they wouldn't be putting pressure on Misty to tell them. It's not just a matter of putting the pieces together, it's a matter of having the hard evidence to prove it. They may have theories, just like we do... but if they KNEW what happened and who was responsible, they would have arrested and charged somebody long before now, and not just for drugs.
A LDT is not going to give them the evidence they need. It might suggest she's telling the truth, but it can't be used in court, so they need something besides that.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

But they DON'T KNOW what really happened... if they did, they wouldn't be putting pressure on Misty to tell them. It's not just a matter of putting the pieces together, it's a matter of having the hard evidence to prove it. They may have theories, just like we do... but if they KNEW what happened and who was responsible, they would have arrested and charged somebody long before now, and not just for drugs.
A LDT is not going to give them the evidence they need. It might suggest she's telling the truth, but it can't be used in court, so they need something besides that.

I am not sure that is true though. Often times on unsolved cases the police knew all along who did it, but as you say, they just didn't have the evidence to prove it in court.

I DO think LE knows who did this crime. I don't think they are sitting there today thinking 'gee,we just don't know who killed Haleigh and disposed of her body' but having all the evidence to prove the case BARD is a totally different matter and to me that is the part LE continues to search for.....circumstantial evidence to shore up a case against the perps so that it can hold muster in a court of law.

That is why LE doesn't pay Chelsea's spin any mind. They know what she spins is nothing close to what their investigation has obtained.

IMO

 

[TxLady2]

I'm not sure I can go along with all these people knowing what happened and helping cover it up, and dumping Haleigh's body. One or two, maybe, but not an entire family.
Think about it... it would take a cold, heartless person to pick up a child's dead body and just dump it somewhere, like you would a dog or a cat. Most of these players don't seem quite that cruel or inhuman to me. And I sure can't picture Ronald doing it, sorry. He loved his daughter... no way could he just throw her body in the dumpster or the river, not even to save his own butt. Neither could his mother or grandma or sister, IMO.
As for the whole Croslin family knowing what happened... I doubt it. If any of them know, it's Misty and/or Tommy.
The fact that Chelsea has changed stories a few times means nothing aside from the fact that she simply doesn't know, wasn't there and had no part in what happened... just like all of us. She is stating theories, just like we are. Everybody has a theory... Art H., Levi, all the bloggers, all of us here on this board... but it doesn't make them true.
I don't know how Haleigh died or who was responsible. I just pray that LE is a lot closer to the truth than they were 20 months ago.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm not sure I can go along with all these people knowing what happened and helping cover it up, and dumping Haleigh's body. One or two, maybe, but not an entire family.
Think about it... it would take a cold, heartless person to pick up a child's dead body and just dump it somewhere, like you would a dog or a cat. Most of these players don't seem quite that cruel or inhuman to me. And I sure can't picture Ronald doing it, sorry. He loved his daughter... no way could he just throw her body in the dumpster or the river, not even to save his own butt. Neither could his mother or grandma or sister, IMO.
As for the whole Croslin family knowing what happened... I doubt it. If any of them know, it's Misty and/or Tommy.
The fact that Chelsea has changed stories a few times means nothing aside from the fact that she simply doesn't know, wasn't there and had no part in what happened... just like all of us. She is stating theories, just like we are. Everybody has a theory... Art H., Levi, all the bloggers, all of us here on this board... but it doesn't make them true.
I don't know how Haleigh died or who was responsible. I just pray that LE is a lot closer to the truth than they were 20 months ago.

ITA!

I think only Tommy and Misty knows the truth.

IMO

 

[suspicious1]

ITA!

I think only Tommy and Misty knows the truth.

IMO

IMO, the only ones that know the absolute truth are the Cummings...Tommy and Misty may know something but IMO, they don't know as much as the Cummings.

JMO of course

 

[suspicious1]

But they DON'T KNOW what really happened... if they did, they wouldn't be putting pressure on Misty to tell them. It's not just a matter of putting the pieces together, it's a matter of having the hard evidence to prove it. They may have theories, just like we do... but if they KNEW what happened and who was responsible, they would have arrested and charged somebody long before now, and not just for drugs.
A LDT is not going to give them the evidence they need. It might suggest she's telling the truth, but it can't be used in court, so they need something besides that.

I agree with you TX...

 

[Tinsel]

Chlse and RC naturally conflict because they both try to orchestrate and control investigation. Interesting to see how MC will go forward, considering her defense did not fly in court at all. I think she is close to giving up listening to the "adults" who have manipulated and mislead her, her whole life, and will start to cooperate fully. She has to be able to pass a polygraph, and tell the truth, even if the truth is incomplete or makes her an accessory to the crime. Her best hope is a commuted sentence, if that is even an option in FL.

 

[Baznme]

But they DON'T KNOW what really happened... if they did, they wouldn't be putting pressure on Misty to tell them. It's not just a matter of putting the pieces together, it's a matter of having the hard evidence to prove it. They may have theories, just like we do... but if they KNEW what happened and who was responsible, they would have arrested and charged somebody long before now, and not just for drugs.
A LDT is not going to give them the evidence they need. It might suggest she's telling the truth, but it can't be used in court, so they need something besides that.

They pretty much do know what happened, they just need MC to SAY it. If she can say she was there and saw what happened and who did this, they've got something to go on with a witness that will testify in court. The LDT would be for LE's benefit only, to verify as much as possible that she would finally be telling the truth. She's looking at 25 yrs. anyway so why not cut your losses and try to help yourself at this point. RC has done nothing to protect this girl, just used her to protect himself. MOO

 

[cyberborg]

They pretty much do know what happened, they just need MC to SAY it. If she can say she was there and saw what happened and who did this, they've got something to go on with a witness that will testify in court. The LDT would be for LE's benefit only, to verify as much as possible that she would finally be telling the truth. She's looking at 25 yrs. anyway so why not cut your losses and try to help yourself at this point. RC has done nothing to protect this girl, just used her to protect himself. MOO

To me, if LE were just seeking Tommy or JO then they'd take Misty's limited testimony together with Tommy's partial confession ... placing him at the MH and proceed with it. It is very telling that they have not.

That makes me think that they are pressuring Misty so hard ... not so much to get to the complete story but ... to seek someone who Misty has not named yet. Has never named.

It is what Misty has not said or named that LE need and know is a core part of the crime. They need a confession pointing in that direction to pull them into the charges.

ETA: Misty has stated that LE should look at Ron but has never provided the goods. I think Misty would be o.k. if Ron was charged from 'other sources' but does not want to be the one to deliver the 'goods' -- she is scared of some retribution.

 

[suspicious1]

They pretty much do know what happened, they just need MC to SAY it. If she can say she was there and saw what happened and who did this, they've got something to go on with a witness that will testify in court. The LDT would be for LE's benefit only, to verify as much as possible that she would finally be telling the truth. She's looking at 25 yrs. anyway so why not cut your losses and try to help yourself at this point. RC has done nothing to protect this girl, just used her to protect himself. MOO

I see your point, Baz...sometimes I think that LE cannot move forward with this case until Misty implicate the "right" person....you may be correct...LE may already have a good idea of what happened but they can't get to the "right" person because of Misty...it may be as simple as Misty admitting that she was NOT there....and was brought in to help cover up this crime...and revealing who brought her in on this coverup...LE is waiting for something and still waiting....and Misty has implicated everybody but the Cummings...JMO of course

 

[suspicious1]

To me, if LE were just seeking Tommy or JO then they'd take Misty's limited testimony together with Tommy's partial confession ... placing him at the MH and proceed with it. It is very telling that they have not.
That makes me think that they are pressuring Misty so hard ... not so much to get to the complete story but ... to seek someone who Misty has not named yet. Has never named.

It is what Misty has not said or named that LE need and know is a core part of the crime. They need a confession pointing in that direction to pull them into the charges.

ETA: Misty has stated that LE should look at Ron but has never provided the goods. I think Misty would be o.k. if Ron was charged from 'other sources' but does not want to be the one to deliver the 'goods' -- she is scared of some retribution.

BBM
See Cyber, that's what I thought too....I mean they have all these different stories from the Croslins why not charge them? LE seems to still be waiting on something....what are they waiting for if the Croslins have implicated themselves in this crime? I just don't get it...LE wants more...and IMO, that just tells me that they are not only interested in the Croslins. I don't know why...but all I can hear is Teresa asking Ron "you think she's gonna talk?" as if Misty talking would be a bad thing...

I remember Misty stating that LE needs to look at Ron a little harder and when asked if Ron had any involvement in his daughters disappearance, Misty's answer "no" showed that she was not sure....and when I add that to the fact Misty never mentions GMSykes visit in the beginning...add that to the fact Misty didn't even know what Haleigh was wearing last...I just don't think Misty was there when something happened to Haleigh but she won't admit it....and IMO, there lies the problem with this...

ETA: Misty not knowing what Haleigh was wearing has always bothered me....then who comes out and tells us that Haleigh clothes had been changed during her visit? GMSykes. So why did we never get a clear description of what Haleigh was wearing....even if Misty didn't know....GMSykes should've known...she changed the shirts.

LE states that Misty's account for that evening is basically all a lie because of the physical evidence that they have from the mh...Misty claimed that she cooked for the kids....I would assume that was a lie too....but who comes to the rescue for her-GMSykes "oh yeah I saw her and the kids were out on the porch eating dinner".....IMO, there was no dinner...I would believe LE over GMSykes any day...

 

[1Chump]

BBM
See Cyber, that's what I thought too....I mean they have all these different stories from the Croslins why not charge them? LE seems to still be waiting on something....what are they waiting for if the Croslins have implicated themselves in this crime? I just don't get it...LE wants more...and IMO, that just tells me that they are not only interested in the Croslins. I don't know why...but all I can hear is Teresa asking Ron "you think she's gonna talk?" as if Misty talking would be a bad thing...

I remember Misty stating that LE needs to look at Ron a little harder and when asked if Ron had any involvement in his daughters disappearance, Misty's answer "no" showed that she was not sure....and when I add that to the fact Misty never mentions GMSykes visit in the beginning...add that to the fact Misty didn't even know what Haleigh was wearing last...I just don't think Misty was there when something happened to Haleigh but she won't admit it....and IMO, there lies the problem with this...

ETA: Misty not knowing what Haleigh was wearing has always bothered me....then who comes out and tells us that Haleigh clothes had been changed during her visit? GMSykes. So why did we never get a clear description of what Haleigh was wearing....even if Misty didn't know....GMSykes should've known...she changed the shirts.

LE states that Misty's account for that evening is basically all a lie because of the physical evidence that they have from the mh...Misty claimed that she cooked for the kids....I would assume that was a lie too....but who comes to the rescue for her-GMSykes "oh yeah I saw her and the kids were out on the porch eating dinner".....IMO, there was no dinner...I would believe LE over GMSykes any day...

Wow. Your post made me realize that even if they had enough to charge someone, they cannot without Misty. Misty not only has to tell but agree to testify. Misty keeping quiet does not protect from charges but from a guilty verdict if someone is charged.

Misty quiet means that the SA cannot get passed reasonable doubt. Misty quiet is the "someone else (Misty) did it, not the defendant" the defense needs to win.

 

[cyberborg]

BBM
See Cyber, that's what I thought too....I mean they have all these different stories from the Croslins why not charge them? LE seems to still be waiting on something....what are they waiting for if the Croslins have implicated themselves in this crime? I just don't get it...LE wants more...and IMO, that just tells me that they are not only interested in the Croslins. I don't know why...but all I can hear is Teresa asking Ron "you think she's gonna talk?" as if Misty talking would be a bad thing...

I remember Misty stating that LE needs to look at Ron a little harder and when asked if Ron had any involvement in his daughters disappearance, Misty's answer "no" showed that she was not sure....and when I add that to the fact Misty never mentions GMSykes visit in the beginning...add that to the fact Misty didn't even know what Haleigh was wearing last...I just don't think Misty was there when something happened to Haleigh but she won't admit it....and IMO, there lies the problem with this...

ETA: Misty not knowing what Haleigh was wearing has always bothered me....then who comes out and tells us that Haleigh clothes had been changed during her visit? GMSykes. So why did we never get a clear description of what Haleigh was wearing....even if Misty didn't know....GMSykes should've known...she changed the shirts.

LE states that Misty's account for that evening is basically all a lie because of the physical evidence that they have from the mh...Misty claimed that she cooked for the kids....I would assume that was a lie too....but who comes to the rescue for her-GMSykes "oh yeah I saw her and the kids were out on the porch eating dinner".....IMO, there was no dinner...I would believe LE over GMSykes any day...

Excellent points! For someone else to be so adept in filling in the blanks for Misty does make you wonder if Misty was there or if this someone else was instead and HaLeigh OD'ed on someone else's watch.

Misty was gone and the threat was if Misty did not follow the script and state the she was in the MH all night, to cover for this someone else, then the Cummings would spill the beans that Misty killed HaLeigh (with TN being LE connected).

Misty is convinced that GmaS and TN will take her down for murder so she'd rather go down for drugs than risk not covering for them (although that opinion may change with 25 years).

Misty is struggling with the story but does not want the Cummings all testifying that Misty killed HaLeigh. Me thinks the Cummings know the details better than Misty herself.