2010.09.27 Status hearing - Ext to 2010.11.19

[Ada]

Because JB isn't a very effective case manager. I cringe at the thought of watching him bumble through the trial. And when the amount of evidence will be even larger than it is now. At this point he should know this case backwards and forwards. And if he doesn't someone on the team needs to.

BBM

I figure most of the people here know this case backwards and forwards. Anyone feel helping JB out. Maybe tell him what's in the discovery that we've all read and he hasn't? :crazy:

 

[sleutherontheside]

Regarding the Eikelenbooms.
http://www.forensic-services.nl/index/readarticle/

an excerpt from a letter sent to New York authorities by a family to request permission for the Dutch couple to test DNA in a 20 year old cold case involving their relative.
While Independent Forensic Services, a Dutch lab, is not American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors Laboratory Accreditation Board (ASCLD LAB) accredited, its full ISO 17025 accreditation has been verified. Moreover, its work has been used in at least two trials before US courts and on numerous occasions in international courts.


http://www.ascld-lab.org/obligations/obligations.html

Did you know?

ASCLD/LAB is the largest forensic science accrediting body in the world

As of February 16, 2010, 378 crime laboratories are accredited by ASCLD/LAB. The list of accredited laboratories includes 184 state laboratories, 124 local agency laboratories, 22 federal laboratories, 17 international (non-US) laboratories and 30 private.

107 crime laboratories are accredited under the International Testing Program, 4 crime laboratories are accredited under the International Calibration Program, and 267 crime laboratories are accredited under the Legacy Program.



Soooooooooooo
If there is an international designation by ASCLD...and the Elkelenboom's DON'T have it.....then I understand the State's issue with them not having the designation and being allowed to test. Additionally, as of March 2010 (according to letter in other link) that lab had only testified in 2 US cases. The issue with the lab designation can in fact create an issue for the jury because they would have to receive specific instructions regarding the testimony of a lab with a designation vs. one without. JB fumbled around when he was trying to say that the court could simply "adjust" jury instructions, but given that appeals have been granted based upon faulty jury instructions or instructions that appeared to be prejudicial to one side it is a very fine line to walk. JB knows that and IMO is counting on it.

Mr. Ashton has peered into his crystal ball and is attempting to address the issue BEFORE it arises. IMO

 

[Dear Prudence]

If anyone missed the hearing live today and want to see Jose at his bumbling worst just watch the first half of this part 2 of WFTV's videos of the hearing: http://www.wftv.com/video/25180059/index.html

It's so painful to watch how unprepared he was. I'm really embarrased for him. Judge Perry looked like he was about to explode.

I don't think Baez is acting the fool here, it seemed genuine to me. If he is acting then he missed his true calling.

 

[Kentjbkent]

I don't think it had anything to do with having to esplain it to Ms. ICA I think it had more to do with him not wanting the record to be so darn squeaky clean. JA wants the defense boxed in and everything of importance (i.e. possible appellate issues) to be clear and on the record. I don't think that JB wants every t and i to be crossed. It doesn't bode well for filing appeals.

This is yet another very interesting read....

http://www3.law.columbia.edu/hrlr/JLM/Chapter_12.pdf

 

[Dear Prudence]

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

It took him that long to count 12!
This is ridiculously funny!

OMG, I just rewatched it and what's even funnier is when JB then lists the 12 as HHJP asks, he lists 15!!!

 

[sleutherontheside]

This is yet another very interesting read....

http://www3.law.columbia.edu/hrlr/JLM/Chapter_12.pdf

Wow...the title alone is worth popcorn.

A Jailhouse Lawyer’s Manual
Chapter 12:
Appealing Your Conviction
Based on Ineffective Assistance of
Counsel​

 

[sleutherontheside]

OMG, I just rewatched it and what's even funnier is when JB then lists the 12 as HHJP asks, he lists 15!!!

That's because those listed in red are worth 4, those in yellow are worth 2, green are worth 1.5, and blue are worth .5. It didn't appear he had his calculator or BB with him at the podium so maybe it was the added pressure to add. :angel:

 

[shotgun09]

Speaking of painful to watch, Cheney looked like he was so disinterested in this hearing. Moreso than normally anyway. He looked bored and disgusted, and his 'I'm old and hard of hearing' wasn't the reason. I even saw his head was in his hands at one point. Pure frustration, and mostly with Baez I believe.

 

[Kentjbkent]

IMO Today was very telling regarding JB's strategy. It is becoming clearer that even beyond mitigation, the defense is planning for KC's appeal.

It wouldn't shock me in the least if that old "defense bus" shifts into auto pilot and rolls right over the previous driver. "Self inflicted injuries" IYKWIM??????????

I think at this point that Baez is so lost, so overwhelmed by his disorganization and knowledge that he doesn't know what the he77 he is doing, were to go, what to do..that he is just going through the motions (no pun intended) trying to APPEAR as if he knows law, and coming out looking like a bumbling fool.

At the beginning of the case, he sought assistance through the defense atty listserv, and DID receive offers of assistance. But Baez' grandstanding and "JoseBGood" attitude has now alienated all those attorneys and they have jumped ship. Even Jonathon Cason, who assisted Baez through the Nilton Diaz case as co-counsel now appears to have separated himself from Baez.

I think the trial is going to be as big of a mess for the defense as these hearings are...Baez cannot even seem to follow the fancy color-coded "cheat sheets" some sympathetic receptionist created for him. SA will present case, Baez will fumble and jumble, jury will take a quick lunch and return with conviction.

Only Cheney Mason is "stuck" but after trial, I expect we will see one telling press conference on WHY KC was convicted....

Speaking of Nilton Diaz, some may recall that he appealed his conviction due to ineffective counsel, but the appeal was denied.

However, Mr. Diaz has now refiled that appeal through a higher court and it is currently pending again.....so Baez and Cason not in the clear yet!

 

[Kentjbkent]

Speaking of painful to watch, Cheney looked like he was so disinterested in this hearing. Moreso than normally anyway. He looked bored and disgusted, and his 'I'm old and hard of hearing' wasn't the reason. I even saw his head was in his hands at one point. Pure frustration, and mostly with Baez I believe.

Or ongoing frustration that he was only able to twist the arm of of new DP defense atty out of Jacksonville (cant recall name) just far enough that she agreed to play a minimal role as pro bono atty, but not enough of a role that it would convince JP to let him off the hook completely in this case :dance:

 

[PMLsmom]

A little OT, but wanted to give EVERYONE a GREAT BIG shout out of THANKS for your blow by blow of the hearing.

:Banane35::bow::grouphug:

I CAN watch at work, but since I can't :drink: without getting fired, I must :HBwhiteflag:, and I also choose to keep my sanity. Bless you all!!!

 

[Aedrys]

I think at this point that Baez is so lost, so overwhelmed by his disorganization and knowledge that he doesn't know what the he77 he is doing, were to go, what to do..that he is just going through the motions (no pun intended) trying to APPEAR as if he knows law, and coming out looking like a bumbling fool.

At the beginning of the case, he sought assistance through the defense atty listserv, and DID receive offers of assistance. But Baez' grandstanding and "JoseBGood" attitude has now alienated all those attorneys and they have jumped ship. Even Jonathon Cason, who assisted Baez through the Nilton Diaz case as co-counsel now appears to have separated himself from Baez.

I think the trial is going to be as big of a mess for the defense as these hearings are...Baez cannot even seem to follow the fancy color-coded "cheat sheets" some sympathetic receptionist created for him. SA will present case, Baez will fumble and jumble, jury will take a quick lunch and return with conviction.

Only Cheney Mason is "stuck" but after trial, I expect we will see one telling press conference on WHY KC was convicted....

Speaking of Nilton Diaz, some may recall that he appealed his conviction due to ineffective counsel, but the appeal was denied.

However, Mr. Diaz has now refiled that appeal through a higher court and it is currently pending again.....so Baez and Cason not in the clear yet!

ITfreakingA. Y'know, I'm starting to wonder if that color coding wasn't done by Baez, but done FOR Baez. I wonder if it was Mason's idea, like surely Baez can read a color scheme! Surely he'll follow along better if there's pretty colors to show him the way! Boy is that backfiring big time...

 

[shotgun09]

Or ongoing frustration that he was only able to twist the arm of of new DP defense atty out of Jacksonville (cant recall name) just far enough that she agreed to play a minimal role as pro bono atty, but not enough of a role that it would convince JP to let him off the hook completely in this case :dance:

Exactly! He looks like he has realized, (albeit to late) that he has bit off more than he can chew. He looked exhausted, frustrated and somewhat embarrassed to be part of 'the circus' he was so excited to join. I don't give him much more time, before some compelling reason has him leave the team.

 

[Kentjbkent]

I just thought of something...

Does anyone recall the details of what Mason stated during the press conference in Baez front lobby (to introduce new attys) when he said that a secret hearing had taken place already and JJP had extended some dates? Was it in reference to depos?

If so, what was the point of today's extension request....or was Mason pulling our leg?

 

[sleutherontheside]

ITfreakingA. Y'know, I'm starting to wonder if that color coding wasn't done by Baez, but done FOR Baez. I wonder if it was Mason's idea, like surely Baez can read a color scheme! Surely he'll follow along better if there's pretty colors to show him the way! Boy is that backfiring big time...

Having worked with scheduling charts I can say without hesitation that the BEST and EASIEST way to look at a "snapshot" of your current status is to use a spreadsheet with a bar graph NEXT to the names.

 

[logicalgirl]

I think at this point that Baez is so lost, so overwhelmed by his disorganization and knowledge that he doesn't know what the he77 he is doing, were to go, what to do..that he is just going through the motions (no pun intended) trying to APPEAR as if he knows law, and coming out looking like a bumbling fool.

At the beginning of the case, he sought assistance through the defense atty listserv, and DID receive offers of assistance. But Baez' grandstanding and "JoseBGood" attitude has now alienated all those attorneys and they have jumped ship. Even Jonathon Cason, who assisted Baez through the Nilton Diaz case as co-counsel now appears to have separated himself from Baez.

I think the trial is going to be as big of a mess for the defense as these hearings are...Baez cannot even seem to follow the fancy color-coded "cheat sheets" some sympathetic receptionist created for him. SA will present case, Baez will fumble and jumble, jury will take a quick lunch and return with conviction.

Only Cheney Mason is "stuck" but after trial, I expect we will see one telling press conference on WHY KC was convicted....

Speaking of Nilton Diaz, some may recall that he appealed his conviction due to ineffective counsel, but the appeal was denied.

However, Mr. Diaz has now refiled that appeal through a higher court and it is currently pending again.....so Baez and Cason not in the clear yet!

I agree completely - it WAS painful to watch - he seems to have no concept of what he's done, is doing and needs to complete before each of his deadlines. It was truly horrible to watch that much incompetence - I was way past being able to see any humor in it.

There is no way he is faking this kind of bumbling - no client is worth making this much of a professional fool of yourself - he is simply completely unprepared. As far as being able to speak in front of a camera and not fumble, that would be because he's not being held to any specific answer, he can bs his way through any statement.

As far as Mason in this hearing? I'm convinced after the part about Amy - he simply turned his hearing aid off and zoned out. I was afraid he was falling asleep when he had his head in his hands.

 

[logicalgirl]

It was bugging me too what these stipulations were about so I went back and listened to Baez ramble. What the stipulations' details are and why he didn't want ICA to see them was not covered.

Here's the short version:
The 2 stipulations pertain to the defense receiving the evidence they want their experts to examine regarding the entomology and the hair. Sounded like Ashton would send the evidence to the defense once they signed the stipulations.

Here's the long version, transcription of the hearing:
19:27 mark:
Judge Perry:
Now, Mr. Baez, have you had all of your experts review all of the evidence that you need to have reviewed? As you know the deadline for them to review is the 31st of October. You got anybody that you still need to have to review evidence?

Baez:
We just have the air evidence and the entomology which is I believe being worked out. This stipulation I will be signing.

skip to 25:40 mark:
Judge Perry:
Mr. Baez, based upon what you've told me all of your experts should be able to have their review of all the evidence complete by Oct. 31st.

Baez:
Yes, sir. I don't anticipate that being a problem provided that they receive them within the next week or so. We've requested it of Mr. Ashton. He's asking that I sign a stipulation. I can sign it right now but I think he wants my client's signature which honestly I don't necessarily think that that would be necessary.

Judge Perry:
Well, death is different, so your client needs to sign it so that should be accomplished no later then tomorrow afternoon.

Baez:
Yes

Judge Perry:
Since your client IS local.

Baez:
Yes I can have , if Mr. Ashton can get me the other one for the hair, I can take them to her today or tomorrow.

Ashton:
Yes and we discussed this a moment ago. If council can give me a list of every item of hair evidence he wants sent, cause what I'm doing is attaching the list to the stipulation so there's no confusion of record on what's sent.

Brilliant - thanks for that. Glad you also sensed Baez looking shifty during this exchange.

Any chance ICA doesn't know about the hair and entomology evidence or does he simply not wish to see her unless he has to? When you think about it, meeting her face to face must really bring home how this trial really will result in a guilty verdict.

Every once in a while we do get the chance to look at our face in the future.

 

[LancelotLink]

Did anyone notice one of JB's FB friends as witness in ICA trial, David Lohr? Is this unethical? Witness tampering?

 

[logicalgirl]

JB welcomes the world to be his friend on FB. Imagine how Lohr would like to get close to JB - he's an author - what a book!

Lohr has a few lines to say about Nejames but I doubt he's going to say anything of value if he is even called to the stand.

 

[Turnadot]

Thanks everyone for the play-by-play! What a mess this defense is, imo. I watched the link someone kindly provided in this thread and at some point while Baez was bumbling, I turned my head away because I felt embarrassed for him. Cannot wait for May 9!