2010.11.29 Hearing: RE: Defense Won't Have Hair Expert @ Trial

[Mendara]

I *think* that what happened was this:

1. The defense hired Petraco, who tested the hair and then never provided a report to them (bc IMO he decided that yes it is PM hair banding).
2. The defense did not include him on their wit list, because his testimony would tend to make KC look guilty.
3. Because he's hired by the DT, the SA can't depo him unless he is added to their witness list (insert image of gleeful DT here).
4. The SA wishes to rely on work that Petraco did in a NY case and apply it here.
5. The DT is absolutely against this door being opened into Petraco's work and findings, but wasn't quite sure on the spot yesterday how they could stop it if CJBP allows it.

I was fuzzy on it too and maybe someone will swoop by and cleanup what I'm misunderstanding, but that was the jist of it.

We all noted the obvious consternation caused on the DT side when CJBP was probing how they would react if he allowed this expert to be brought into the case. Much standing, conferring, etc. They did. not. like. the idea one little bit.

I believe you are right. But it looks like JB can't keep this from happening because he will be able to cross the witness. I hope the judge allows it.

 

[strawberry]

I *think* that what happened was this:

1. The defense hired Petraco, who tested the hair and then never provided a report to them (bc IMO he decided that yes it is PM hair banding).
2. The defense did not include him on their wit list, because his testimony would tend to make KC look guilty.
3. Because he's hired by the DT, the SA can't depo him unless he is added to their witness list (insert image of gleeful DT here).
4. The SA wishes to rely on work that Petraco did in a NY case and apply it here.
5. The DT is absolutely against this door being opened into Petraco's work and findings, but wasn't quite sure on the spot yesterday how they could stop it if CJBP allows it.

I was fuzzy on it too and maybe someone will swoop by and cleanup what I'm misunderstanding, but that was the jist of it.

We all noted the obvious consternation caused on the DT side when CJBP was probing how they would react if he allowed this expert to be brought into the case. Much standing, conferring, etc. They did. not. like. the idea one little bit.

Thanks for the summary! Now my question is how exactly is the SA wanting to use this guy? Do they want to get him on the stand or what? I could tell HHJP was giving JB every oppurtunity to give him the right answer as to what grounds they would object and he, even after conferring, could not come up with it.

 

[tsitra01]

I,m watching the hearing now that I missed yesterday (on In Session)
I have heard many remark Baez did a good job but I recall when Dr Voss was in court he had to correct Baez many times because he was not understanding the science he was explaining. Baez came out in my eyes looking rather stupid. Now he wants JP to believe he knows what he is talking about. Sounds as though most of his ramblings are his opinions. Another thing
To say Dr Voss can't report on something involving Chemistry because he is not a chemist is stupid considering he has a chemist on his staff.

 

[Solace]

I,m watching the hearing now that I missed yesterday (on In Session)
I have heard many remark Baez did a good job but I recall when Dr Voss was in court he had to correct Baez many times because he was not understanding the science he was explaining. Baez came out in my eyes looking rather stupid. Now he wants JP to believe he knows what he is talking about. Sounds as though most of his ramblings are his opinions. Another thing
To say Dr Voss can't report on something involving Chemistry because he is not a chemist is stupid considering he has a chemist on his staff.

Also, lets not forget that Baez' expert relied on his student's to bolster his report. I forget his name.

 

[LambChop]

I,m watching the hearing now that I missed yesterday (on In Session)
I have heard many remark Baez did a good job but I recall when Dr Voss was in court he had to correct Baez many times because he was not understanding the science he was explaining. Baez came out in my eyes looking rather stupid. Now he wants JP to believe he knows what he is talking about. Sounds as though most of his ramblings are his opinions. Another thing
To say Dr Voss can't report on something involving Chemistry because he is not a chemist is stupid considering he has a chemist on his staff.

Plus Dr. Vass said he took Chemistry, just did not major in it.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I didn't interpret the exchange between the judge and Baez as the State wants to cal Petraco at trial.

Baez objected to using Petraco's New York testimony in considering the death-band issue. The judge indicated he did not object at the time of the hearing, but I think Baez corrected him on that.

I saw the judge ask Baez that IF Petraco had been called to testify at the hearing, would the defense have objected and why? It seemed to be more of a hypothetical.

The defense couldn't come up with a reason. Obviously there was no reason that wouldn't go against them, but that is beyond my legal knowledge.

Ashton had said they didn't call Petraco to testify because he was in the employ of the defense.

 

[logicalgirl]

I *think* that what happened was this:

1. The defense hired Petraco, who tested the hair and then never provided a report to them (bc IMO he decided that yes it is PM hair banding).
2. The defense did not include him on their wit list, because his testimony would tend to make KC look guilty.
3. Because he's hired by the DT, the SA can't depo him unless he is added to their witness list (insert image of gleeful DT here).
4. The SA wishes to rely on work that Petraco did in a NY case and apply it here.
5. The DT is absolutely against this door being opened into Petraco's work and findings, but wasn't quite sure on the spot yesterday how they could stop it if CJBP allows it.

I was fuzzy on it too and maybe someone will swoop by and cleanup what I'm misunderstanding, but that was the jist of it.

We all noted the obvious consternation caused on the DT side when CJBP was probing how they would react if he allowed this expert to be brought into the case. Much standing, conferring, etc. They did. not. like. the idea one little bit.

Thank you ynotdivein! Great summary - I was trying to explain this during the hearing thread but no time to arrange it in such a calm easy to digest way.

I was pretty amused by Mr. Baez skating to and fro on this one tossing in pink elephants etc into the mix, plus if you watch HHJP's face - he is actually pretty amused by how Baez is trying to avoid even opening the door as to why he won't be bringing the expert/report in.

We were chuckling a month or so ago about Baez and his "curses, foiled again"! expert. I found it VERY interesting that HHJP is going to read up on the New York case. And I did get the feeling and I may have been wrong - that HHJP was just having a moment of cat pokes mouse - just for fun.

 

[strawberry]

Plus Dr. Vass said he took Chemistry, just did not major in it.

THat was such a ridiculous statement by JB. Of course he's taken chemistry.

 

[strawberry]

Maybe I'll rewatch this now that I know what they are talking about. When exactly did they discuss this yesterday? Was it the last thing?

 

[logicalgirl]

Maybe I'll rewatch this now that I know what they are talking about. When exactly did they discuss this yesterday? Was it the last thing?

Yes, it was primarily during Baez's summary near the end of the hearing. He kept harping on Dr. Vass not being a chemist.:banghead:

 

[ynotdivein]

Bringing this over from the Hearing thread--NS with more details.

That's the jest of the discussion I got to. What had me stumped was why HHJP asked JA WHY he had not spoke to this expert. JA explained, at least twice, that he couldn't because this expert had been retained by Baez and therefor JA was prohibited from pursuing it.

IIRC, this issue was brought up because Baez had filed a motion to have the PM banding thrown out because he claims that the prosecutor's expert witness for this matter is stating opinion AND there were no other experts that could support the experts opinion about the PM.

JA rebutted and said not true judge. JA explained to the court that one of Baez's own experts could validate this finding but had decided they weren't going to use him although Baez never submitted any report/finding/opinion from this expert. And, JA informed the judge that his hands were tied and couldn't reach out to this expert because Baez would not play nice(my words)

So, JP confronts Baez who starts ducking, accusing, hallucinating ie. pink elephants, lecturing the judge and Mason's hearing becomes worse and starts talking about escalators.

Finally, after JP is able to determine that Baez has no intention of putting this expert on the stand, JP informs the court that he will review the New York case laws involved with this expert's testimony and make his decision about the PM hair banding.

 

[Softail]

Maybe I'll rewatch this now that I know what they are talking about. When exactly did they discuss this yesterday? Was it the last thing?

At WFTV - Video #8 it starts at about 16:40

http://www.wftv.com/video/27455780/index.html

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/57237200/10122010-Stipulation-Re-Exam-of-Evidence---Petraco

10/12/2010 - Stipulation Re Examination of Evidence

excerpt:
The Defendant having expressed a desire to have evidence presently in the possession of the Orange county Sheriffs office examined by Nick Petraco and the State having no objection to such examination the following stipulations are entered into between the parties.


Items are FBI Q12 and Q12.1

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/web_links/071310-Anthony-defense-brings-in-the-all-stars

Expert witnesses for Casey Anthony comb over evidence
July 14, 2010

excerpt:
"Criminalist and hair banding expert Nicholas Petraco and forensic entomologist Dr. Timothy Huntington arrived after lunch. According to Dr. Huntington's website he is one of only 15 experts in the world certified in the use of insects as evidence in legal investigations"

TY, TT...I didn't stay until the hearing ended, my nerves couldn't take DSimms any longer but what was the outcome of His Honor suggesting to the attornies for the State to serve that expert with a subpeona? Of course the defense wouldn't use him, for he's in agreement with the state's interpetation of that evidence. JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Dr. Vass who's been doing decomp experiments for over 20 years is no expert but Logan who just began this process is???

Befuddled of course since it is the defenses job to create doubt, but seriously....how does one attorney say that one expert is more of an expert than the states expert but the defenses expert doesn't have the experice Dr. Vass does...how hypocritical is that! I'd be embarassed, humiliated and mortified to try and pass my nonexpert off as an expert and the true expert as no expert at all...:maddening:

I believe His Honor has already made up his decision in regards to the chloroform, the hair with the PMDB on the hair and the K9....which is why he asked the defense what their objection would be if Dr. Petraco was given a subpeona to testify...I just fell out of my seat when Baez said, it would be considered hearsay! His Honor almost laughed himself out of his seat, hearsay? This is case law...:floorlaugh: Me thinks those red bulls Baez is drinking is over stimulating his brain power, for he can't give a credible reasonable excuse..JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[strawberry]

Yes, it was primarily during Baez's summary near the end of the hearing. He kept harping on Dr. Vass not being a chemist.:banghead:

During his power point?

 

[strawberry]

At WFTV - Video #8 it starts at about 16:40

http://www.wftv.com/video/27455780/index.html

Thank you for finding that for me!

 

[Softail]

You are quite welcome Strawberry!

Now that I watched it again - It makes more sense.

Anyone know what the Crawford issue is? :waitasec:

 

[LambChop]

I think what bothered me the most was JB doing mini push-ups on the podium. He is way too hyper. Also during a closeup, his face appeared to be dangerously red. He's liable to have a stroke if he does not calm down. jmo

 

[Intermezzo]

You are quite welcome Strawberry!

Now that I watched it again - It makes more sense.

Anyone know what the Crawford issue is? :waitasec:

I think it has to do with Hearsay

 

[Softail]

I think it has to do with Hearsay

:tyou: