2011.02.23 - Billie believes Hailey was abducted off the street by a stranger

[Soulmagent]

I know we've been bombarded by a million media links in this case so I may have missed it, but did LE ever come out and say the dogs hit at the hotel or was that story started with BD making a statement? I honestly can't remember at this point.

Here is the thread and yes the dogs did hit.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127472&highlight=dog+hit

 

[itsreenw]

BD is so busy trying to clear SA of suspicion, she's putting it all on herself with all her inconsistent statements and double talk. I hope they arrest her for interfering/obstructing an LE investigation by withholding information. Her stories are so unbelievable and lack logic.

Surely one of the 1st questions LE asked was if there had been any disagreements or discipline that took place prior to HD going missing. Being restricted to the house is usually punishment for something. What? LE would have been leaning more toward a runaway than looking for suspects in her disappearance. Once again, BD has told a lie and didn't think it through.

And it seems more logical that if HD was going to leave against her mother's wishes, she would have done so long before either adult was expected home. BD didn't get upset at the blatant defiance?? Just let her stay at her friend's house and not worry about her until the next day??

It makes her odd on air msg on NG to HD look even more bizarre. Most parents would have said "honey, you aren't going to be in trouble for leaving the house, just please come home, etc.."

And she needs to make her mind up. Does she think HD left or someone "came in" and took her? How is that scenario possible when SA claims he was there when she left?? Their stories are all over the place.

Since BD & SA are hangin out again, she has the opportunity to ask him those very important questions everybody wants answers to regarding him leaving work & having the door locked, etc...

MOO

 

[Caligram]

I believe that the actual numbers of yearly stranger abductions in the U.S. are thankfully extremely low. The "Stranger Abduction" being pushed by BD is a "Danger Deduction" which diverts attention from LE's investigation.

IMO

 

[katydid23]

There are red flags. It still does not make a stranger abduction impossible.
Statistically Jaycee Dugard fit the exact profile of the one you outline. Her step dad spent years as a suspect. SA isnt in the clear with me but I do think the sightings and the dog hit are just as red flag as SA.IMO

It is Ironic in my area that the the only people reported missing who turned out to be abducted( 8 people) only 2 of those was by someone they know. I only counted people reported missing who turned out to be abducted.

ETA also 6 of the 8 people were found murdered.

murdered by:

family members, 18%
acquaintances, 40%
stranger 13%
unknown 30%

So by family or friends= 58%
and maybe more because we cannot count the unknowns yet
[us dept of justice 1992]
LESS CRIME by john Lott

In over 75 percent of murders, the victim knows the killer. And in that group, nearly 30 percent are family members. The psychological dynamics in families are so powerful that intense love and self-sacrifice is the rule, and intense resentment and jealousy sparking terrible violence is also possible.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2010/10/07/murder-family-think-spouse/#ixzz1Ewqz4AL1

 

[katydid23]

There are red flags. It still does not make a stranger abduction impossible.
Statistically Jaycee Dugard fit the exact profile of the one you outline. Her step dad spent years as a suspect. SA isnt in the clear with me but I do think the sightings and the dog hit are just as red flag as SA.IMO

It is Ironic in my area that the the only people reported missing who turned out to be abducted( 8 people) only 2 of those was by someone they know. I only counted people reported missing who turned out to be abducted.

ETA also 6 of the 8 people were found murdered.

I think there were witnesses to jaycee's abduction. Sure, people suspected the step-dad, that maybe he set it up, but there were not nearly the red flags that we have here imo.

as for the witness sightings, the only one that would help Shawn is the one at 8:30 by the RedBox. That is the least credible imo. Do you think a 13 yr old girl can fool the FBI about her whereabouts that night? I don't. And if Hailey had been walking around in public monday night there would have been more
sightings than that. IF she was with MB and a teen boy then they would have been going to and from somewhere, and some one would have talked. IMO

And the dog sniffing at the motel was discounted by LE somewhat. They were prison dogs, and don't differentiate as well as true scent dogs. And it was 4 days out, and they did not track the scent there, they were taken there by LE and they hit on something, but it was said it was not 100% certain it was a hit on Hailey having been there. I will try and find the article that said that, but I have posted it previously.

I know stranger abductions happen, but Hailey was living with a sick and twisted perv, one who already had scared her. So why would I think a random stranger grabbed her, when the last one to see her is a hinky pedo?

 

[katydid23]

Here is the thread and yes the dogs did hit.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127472&highlight=dog+hit

K9Snoop
K9 Sar & Police SAR management

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 118
From the info I've seen none of the dogs used trailed from the residence to any of the hotels. I've seen one report where "dogs went to a hotel by I-10" but it didn’t say the dogs went from the residence to this location as a solid track. I also saw one where the dogs were taken to the area hotels.

Prison dogs are trained more to institutional scent then specific human scent. I've worked with some prison hounds that when you gave them an item that contained the institutional scent with the human scent worked like a house on fire. But give them a "pure" human scent article and they did less well. Normally, they fizzled out at about the quarter-mile mark or at the end of a city block even when it’s known the subject left on foot. Most had trouble just getting out of the front yard. The ones of my experience are not trained for car trails (following subject scent coming from a motor vehicle). This is because once a subject gets into a car the speed at which they can travel far exceeds the speed of a on-foot team and they will never, ever catch up so from LE’s point of view, what’s the point? If the guy’s got a 4 hour head start that is later compounded by being in a vehicle there is no way that a dog working at 15-20 minute miles is ever going to catch up with a car traveling 50 mph. It’s also very dangerous for the trailing team due to the other vehicles also using the roadway even when you have marked units trying to protect the team.

When using trailing dogs (or any scenting dog) the answer is not always black and white but depends heavily on the skills of the individual team. What one team can do, another team may be unable. Not all dogs are created equal but must be judged as individuals. Handlers, too. And sometimes the handler doesn’t do the right job framing out to the dog what they want them to answer so the dog is confused about what you want them to do. Anyone who works a trailing dog never, ever stops learning.

Taking a dog to locations is a scent tactic under the broadly labeled category of “scent matching”. Scent matching is used to tie specific human scent to an object, location, or action. Here it can be a bit tricky and there's a few things handlers have to keep in mind. 1) has the subject been in that location before, recently, or within the scent timeframe the dog is trained for 2) has a close member of the family or significant other been at the location. If there is no reason for the subject to have been at that location then the dog, when taken to that location, should have absolutely no reason to indicate a matching scent in that area. The danger is that family/significant other can have that person’s scent on their clothing or vehicle due to their living in the same household and living together. This residual scent can be enough to trigger the dogs and give a positive indication even though the subject has not been there.

The other tricky half is that when you "drop" a dog to check for scent, you are dropping them into that area. They didn't work themselves there from the PLS. So you are placing them into the unknown. The dog CANNOT tell you “Oops, this is X number of days/hours old while that stuff back at the house was much fresher or only this old.” Now based on the dog/handler’s training and experience, the handler can sometimes draw a conclusion that the odor is “fresher” or “older” based on canine working behavior. If the scent is present and at a level the dog can detect then you will get a positive indication and sometimes the handler can have a good idea on the age but the handler has to be able to read their dog.

So by dropping dogs at locations where, for a variety of reasons, you believe the subject may have gone to then you do it because it can find you a loose thread that ends up as a valid lead.

Now scent age. If I'm on a trail and that person loops back over their same track, I expect my dog to abandon the older odor and cross over to the fresher track. The same can happen if they airscent fresher odor on the wind versus what they have on the ground. The dog will raise their head and work like an airscent dog following that odor to the scent source. (disclaimer: this is NOT TRUE for dogs trained as a tracking or non-scent specific patrol dog)

 

[gngr~snap]

The only stranger in Bilie Dunn's life is the one she is sleeping with! SA!:ghost:
So yes she is probably right HD WAS taken by a STRANGER!!! Off the street, AFTER he killed her!

MOO :cow:

 

[Soulmagent]

I think there were witnesses to jaycee's abduction. Sure, people suspected the step-dad, that maybe he set it up, but there were not nearly the red flags that we have here imo.

as for the witness sightings, the only one that would help Shawn is the one at 8:30 by the RedBox. That is the least credible imo. Do you think a 13 yr old girl can fool the FBI about her whereabouts that night? I don't. And if Hailey had been walking around in public monday night there would have been more
sightings than that. IF she was with MB and a teen boy then they would have been going to and from somewhere, and some one would have talked. IMO

And the dog sniffing at the motel was discounted by LE somewhat. They were prison dogs, and don't differentiate as well as true scent dogs. And it was 4 days out, and they did not track the scent there, they were taken there by LE and they hit on something, but it was said it was not 100% certain it was a hit on Hailey having been there. I will try and find the article that said that, but I have posted it previously.

I know stranger abductions happen, but Hailey was living with a sick and twisted perv, one who already had scared her. So why would I think a random stranger grabbed her, when the last one to see her is a hinky pedo?

I posted the link to the thread for the search dogs.
<modsnip>
I answered a question with a stated fact and sourced where she could find information. Plus all the information posted on how dogs are trained and can be trained etc. does not tell me that is how the dogs that got the Hit on Hailey were trained or what kind of scent they were using. Do you have a link for the K-9 certs for the dogs out there? FACT The dog got a hit. The dog got a hit on whatever method it was using to get Haileys scent.

Stranger abductions happen. I think that both options are as possible as the other. <modsnip>

My first post was in responce to somebody addressing the likely hood of someone going 6 blocks of I 20. to abduct Hailey.
I pointed out it can happen and it has happened. SA looks like a good person to suspect so I suspect him to . But I wont be completely sure it wasnt a stranger abduction until I know for a fact. IMO

 

[hollyblue]

I think BD, conveniently, is putting her "faith" in MKlaas-- taken off the street, sex trafficking rally, etc.. Plus, he was nice to her. LE be dam*ed. jmo

I truly hope she is. I do to. Somebody in LE needs to "keep their enemies closer" as I don't believe it should be anyone else within BD's near proximity. I can't believe MK would still be feeling the same as he did in the beginning of this case. I haven't agreed with MK in another case, but I think he is very good at what he does and a smart cookie about seeing to "it".

Said the spider to fly. BD will spin her web, but MK's will be better built.

 

[hollyblue]

This whole thing about telling Hailey not to leave the house is just a lie. A lie.

She had ample opportunities to explain things that way on Nancy Grace just a week after the child disappeared, but she never acted like it was any big deal at all that Hailey left the house. It's just much too late to change her story this way.

Jan. 6, 2011
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1101/06/ng.01.html

GRACE: Billie, when your little girl would go for a sleepover, didn`t the family typically know she was coming?

DUNN: She usually asked me first. And then would ask the other family. Sometimes she would ask them first. I thought, yes, they knew she had intentions of spending the night. They should have known.

RSBM:

It blows me away how much blaming the other person BD does. :innocent:

 

[grandmaj]

This thread wa totally off topic. Posts have been removed. This thread is about how Billie believes Hailey was abducted. . Stay on topic.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

GRACE: Billie, when your little girl would go for a sleepover, didn`t the family typically know she was coming?

DUNN: She usually asked me first. And then would ask the other family. Sometimes she would ask them first. I thought, yes, they knew she had intentions of spending the night. They should have known.

RSBM:

It blows me away how much blaming the other person BD does. :innocent:

JMO. BD should have known! It would have taken 30 seconds for her to have called Hailey and it might have taken 15 minutes to drive to the girls house to speak with Hailey if they were not answering the phone. Yes, BD should have known. If BD thinks she was abducted off the street, I think someone would have seen this because it seems, folks in CCity keep a lookout on things and lots of folks seem to watch their neighborhood.

 

[txsvicki]

Being abducted off the street does not fit with what SA claims, but the only thing BD can think of that could excuse him. It would have to be within a couple blocks of home, Haylie would have had to lie to SA, and head to the store or to play ball. There has still been no explanation for when Haylie planned to get her things to go spend the night with a friend, if she asked SA what the heck he was doing home, why she didn't call her Mom, or take the phone with her. It also probably does not explain why Haylie most likely never called or contacted anyone all day long. All BD has done is make an explanation for why Haylie left when SA says, in only sweats and a tshirt, why her scent didn't lead anywhere for the dogs, and knowingly give a reason why (that her scent ended due to leaving in a vehicle, probably tied up & gagged or drugged).

 

[lillys]

The only stranger in Bilie Dunn's life is the one she is sleeping with! SA!:ghost:
So yes she is probably right HD WAS taken by a STRANGER!!! Off the street, AFTER he killed her!

MOO :cow:

You got that right gngr~snap. I'll bet the farm on it.

 

[RavenTrue]

I absolutely do not think Hailey was abducted. She disappeared under almost classic circumstances with the more-than-freaky boyfriend being the last one to see her. There would be no reason for all the lies and uncharacteristic behavior on Dec. 28-29 concerning that very same person if a stranger took her. Also, if she were kidnapped randomly I think a body would have been found much more quickly.

 

[Ellebelle]

I don't for one instant believe that Billie really believes this any more than I do and for the record I don't believe it. Never have, never will. :sick:
JMO

 

[Pink Panther]

Just watch...BD will be talking about area 51 soon...

LOL