2011.06.01 SIDEBAR THREAD Trial Day Seven

[Pink Panther]

I heard them bring up Eric Baker today, but did they ever bring up a Jesus Ortiz? I read about him being a possibility of the father of Caylee also.

Nope. No metnion of Jesus Ortiz today.

moo

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Thinking outloud here- when the defense was questioning LE today they kept emphasizing the fact that LE had their uniforms on (duh) when they went to the house for the first time. At first I though he was alluding to the fact that they were "scary" to Casey and she was frightened. Now I wonder if they are alluding to GA (as a formal police officer be obviously wore a uniform) and that it brought back bad memories to Casey and thus she was too scared to tell the truth? Am I overthinking this?
Also it hurts now to quote words, lol.

Your first thought is correct. His motion to have all of the LEO statements thrown out before trial began was rooted in the fact that BIG SCARY LEO in uniforms and with GUNS were there beside wittle bitty shy innocent ICA and she did not feel free to get away from these BIG BAD POLICE OFFICERS. In other words, they didn't mirandize her, so those statements should be thrown out.

Didn't work.

 

[realdeal]

Objection. Lacks foundation. Assumes facts not in evidence.

I am "cracking up" here. You guys are "hilarious". For real!

 

[Pink Panther]

JMO But it I think the computer got blue screened as fast as it did because of what there was on there about Casey the bad pictures and ??? perhaps hints of what she might have been doing with all of her time ( and I'm hoping not Caylee's)Because LE was very quick to tell George about the hundreds of bad photos no father would want to see or something to that effect. Not sure if she told Lee about that, and what to do, when she knew she was going down. He knew what was on there would be trouble for her.

Lolz. Are you talking about those PREJUDICIAL pics that were floating around? They're still out there on the internetz. I wonder if anything ever came out about those? She sure seemed to have a body double for those didn't she?

moo

 

[tlcya]

moo who Caylee's daddy is is of no consequence to this proceeding. A man who has never been a part of her life in any way shape or form, whether he was aware of her existence or not, has nothing to add to this case.

While it is sad that that there may be some man walking around out there who is clueles that he had a beautiful daughter, or maybe has a suspicion and has chosen not to involve himself in this circus, this child was loved by plenty. Non issue to me.

What would the SAO have to gain by presenting him even if he could be found? Nothing imo. What could the DT have to gain by presenting him even if he could be found? Nothing imo.

Justice for Caylee Marie Anthony.

 

[Leila]

I haven't kept up with every post in this thread this afternoon as I did some household chores after court recessed for the day, so I don't know if this has been covered.

On CNN Headline News there's a program that follows Nancy Grace called "Dr. Drew." Dr. Drew is doing a wrap-up every day of the trial. Tonight he's got Linda Kinney Baden on, who's pretty much siding with the defense as can be expected.

Another interesting guest is a former juror in the Scott Peterson case, and he's been watching the trial from the perspective of a juror. He says that what he's seen so far, he sees KC as the one who killed Caylee.

A defense attorney, Mark English, says the defense doesn't have to prove their assertion that KC was abused and that Caylee's death was an accidental drowning.

Reporter, Ryan Smith (In Sessions) says he's been watching the jury, and the African American lady who said she couldn't judge anyone has been watching KC intently, as if she's trying to figure out what's going on in KC's mind.

Dr. Drew, who's expertise is psychology, says he doesn't feel that there's any proof to suggest that KC endured the type of abuse that would be necessary to create someone who would kill and then carry on without any remorse whatsoever.

Finally, Dr. Drew, picked a spectator from the courtroom today to describe what they saw and their views on the case. This young woman described the mad dash for the courthouse this morning to get a seat. She says she's been interested in this case since the beginning. She's close to KC's age, grew up in Orlando as KC did, and knows people who know KC. She thinks it was accidental that KC then hid.

 

[elfie]

Thank you, that really changes the way I was thinking about it... I wonder if KC was taking testosterone to keep up her strength to, um, take pictures. :waitasec:

Yeah really. Just started to worry when reminded of the testosterone that Tony wanted boys.

 

[allycat1208]

Nope. No metnion of Jesus Ortiz today.

moo

Who was this Jesus Ortiz? It sounds like Eric Baker and Jesus Ortiz were the same person because I think I read that Ortiz died in a car accident. Is that correct?

 

[Pink Panther]

Your first thought is correct. His motion to have all of the LEO statements thrown out before trial began was rooted in the fact that BIG SCARY LEO in uniforms and with GUNS were there beside wittle bitty shy innocent ICA and she did not feel free to get away from these BIG BAD POLICE OFFICERS. In other words, they didn't mirandize her, so those statements should be thrown out.

Didn't work.

LE...Bad. Uniforms! Yegads. They had UNIFORMS on! Weapons! Who on earth thinks its ok for LE - on duty - to be wearing uniforms and bearing arms. Really! Didn't they realize they were showing up at KC's home! They should have changed into sweatpants and ditched the mandated weapons. Heck, they should have brought a bottle of wine so that everyone could relax and chat!

moo

 

[costalpilot]

i would love to see a poll of those who have been abused, and see if any buy the lie. Really, if ANY believe it.

i think... the PT team.. constantly POUNDING the liar aspect into the juries mind over and over and over.... will serve them if and when ICA would take the stand... they jury would be so convinced that ICA is INCAPABLE of telling ANY truth... that they will NOT.. totally NOT believe anything from her mouth...imo....

and.. imo...being an abuse sruvivor and having removed me and my children from abusive situations that mimicked mine or would lead to them... to PROTECT not only them, but MYSELF from having to live it again... I LEFT... i didnt GO TO IT!!!!!! ididnt look for it!!! cant anyone see it??? you DONT continue the abuse/ what caused the trauma, if it has or had been so traumatic as this DT is trying to make people..the jury, think... you do the OPPOSITE and keep away from it... ICA was the farthest from that kind of normal behavior with the kind of abuse she is alleging... imo

 

[Quiche]

I beg to differ. Chloroform is a rare and unusual substance. Looky looky here. It comes up in the trunk, and in a bottle with a syringe close to where the remains are found. Given its absolute scarcity today, I find that to be far too coincidental for it NOT to be related.

moo

ETA - Bleach + acetone + ice doesn't sound too complicated. If it is, bleach + acetone in a syringe still sounds quite deadly to me.

Yeah, but there wasn't much chloroform in that bottle. This article states the numbers.

Lab Analyzes Syringe Found Near Caylee
Chemist Calls Amount Of Chloroform 'Insignificant'

Quote: ...chloroform in the liquid constitutes only about 12 parts per billion. By comparison, drinking water can contain up to 80 parts per billion of chloroform and its chemical cousins and still pass the Environmental Protection Agency standards for chlorinated drinking water.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21576734/detail.html

Read the whole thing, the testosterone is interesting...

 

[ohiogirl]

I am feeling a little better about this case. I just watched Dr. Drew (partially - couldn't stomach Linda Kenny Baden) and he ACTUALLY seems to have doubt about the defense theory now. That first day of opening statements, I was literally sick at my stomach that he was touting how ICA was molested, and her behavior was typical of an abuse victim. Tonight, however, he was talking narcissistic personally and sociopath....

However, he is so confused because there has not been any "real" evidence presented. I just keep laughing to myself and saying "just wait for the forensics, baby. Just you wait."

It's too bad Dr Drew is such a <modsnip> at this point, he could do a lot of good, but commenting on this case that he knows nothing about doesn't help his credibility in my book. Stidk to what you know.

 

[gibby207]

Objection. Lacks foundation. Assumes facts not in evidence.

:rocker::floorlaugh::takeabow::loveyou::laughcry::cheer::highfive:

(Been looking everywhere for the "pee my pants smiley" but haven't found it yet... lol)

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

marsha clark (from oj trial) and others on joy behar tonite on hln talking about trial

 

[Justin Tyme]

Maybe this has been mentioned, as I haven't read everything yet, but, I was thinking with the cops around the car and all, sure it smelled bad, but maybe having a whole container of Febreeze sprayed inside the car, it might have altered the smell at that time (being the same day as the Febreeze) so it smelled bad, but, not something they could say, oh wow, dead body smell. As the Febreeze dissipated the smell might of changed. I know Febreeze leaves freshness and all, but, I have never sprayed that much in a small space, and never used to cover up any kind of strong odor, so I don't know exactly what it would do.

Does this make sense? It has been a long day for me and I think I need to rest up and think of non trial things till the morning.

Hugs,
Rosie

I think that CA went into cover ICA's mode right from the get go. If I were CA and I hadn't seen my granddaughter or my daughter and I found the car with that smell, the first thing I would do is to call the police. I wouldn't clean the car,spray Fabreeze, add fabreeze sheets etc., wash the clothes or touch ANYTHING. Hell, I wouldn't have taken it off of the tow lot. If you recall, in her first two 911 calls her main objective was to have ICA arrested for stealing the car and money. I still think that there's more to the story and that the entire "A" family knows it now and knew it then. To me it shows that CA was more concerned with getting that car back and cleaning it then she was with her granddaughter being missing. She Already knew that ICA was okay because she had almost daily phone and text contact with her. What she didn't know was if Caylee was okay. She knew that ICA didn't have the car for a couple of weeks because it was at the tow yard. She knew that she hadn't seen or heard from Caylee. You know where I'm going with this.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

moo who Caylee's daddy is is of no consequence to this proceeding. A man who has never been a part of her life in any way shape or form, whether he was aware of her existence or not, has nothing to add to this case.

While it is sad that that there may be some man walking around out there who is clueles that he had a beautiful daughter, or maybe has a suspicion and has chosen not to involve himself in this circus, this child was loved by plenty. Non issue to me.

What would the SAO have to gain by presenting him even if he could be found? Nothing imo. What could the DT have to gain by presenting him even if he could be found? Nothing imo.

Justice for Caylee Marie Anthony.

I agree and have been saying the same thing for almost 3 years. What does it matter at this point? But people are naturally curious. I could see CA and GA inquiring who the father was, but IMHO I don't even know if ICA knows.

 

[okiedokietoo]

I think it's just a way to try and discredit YM in any way possible. The more ways they can poke holes in the state's witnesses that's just another drop in the "reasonable doubt" bucket. Same with the shady tactic of making Amy H look bad for hanging out with ICA's exes. Crappy move but if he gets another tiny drop in his bucket against a state witness that's a small victory in itself.

Trying to think from a Jurors point of view and if the Defense Attorney, JB, tries to discredit every single State Witness, I think he is making a mistake. That's how many State witnesses that are drinkers, smokers, corrupt, have alternative motives etc., against one person, ICA? I believe The State is aware of this and will not try to discredit the Defenses Witnesses. (rather gently question and point out other alternative answers) The Jury is intelligent. They realize that every single one of The States witnesses don't belong to some secret "let's all get Casey" society. This isn't the Orlando Theater's production of "Murder on the Orient Express".

 

[Mountain_Kat]

yeah, any theorizing I am engaging involves an absence of syringe and bottle for just that reason. Vicinity and no identifiable prints to me say too tenuous. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that is much more compelling imo so that particular find I am not attached to one way or the other.

Where was this bottle/syringe actually found?

 

[TotallyObsessed]

marsha clark (from oj trial) and others on joy behar tonite on hln talking about trial

Well, just to warn you, buckle up and put your blinders on. JB hasn't a CLUE about this case. :maddening:

 

[ohiogirl]

I haven't kept up with every post in this thread this afternoon as I did some household chores after court recessed for the day, so I don't know if this has been covered.

On CNN Headline News there's a program that follows Nancy Grace called "Dr. Drew." Dr. Drew is doing a wrap-up every day of the trial. Tonight he's got Linda Kinney Baden on, who's pretty much siding with the defense as can be expected.

Another interesting guest is a former juror in the Scott Peterson case, and he's been watching the trial from the perspective of a juror. He says that what he's seen so far, he sees KC as the one who killed Caylee.

A defense attorney, Mark English, says the defense doesn't have to prove their assertion that KC was abused and that Caylee's death was an accidental drowning.

Reporter, Ryan Smith (In Sessions) says he's been watching the jury, and the African American lady who said she couldn't judge anyone has been watching KC intently, as if she's trying to figure out what's going on in KC's mind.

Dr. Drew, who's expertise is psychology, says he doesn't feel that there's any proof to suggest that KC endured the type of abuse that would be necessary to create someone who would kill and then carry on without any remorse whatsoever.

Finally, Dr. Drew, picked a spectator from the courtroom today to describe what they saw and their views on the case. This young woman described the mad dash for the courthouse this morning to get a seat. She says she's been interested in this case since the beginning. She's close to KC's age, grew up in Orlando as KC did, and knows people who know KC. She thinks it was accidental that KC then hid.

Wow, thanks for all that. What does this all say? That everyone is interested in their 15 min of fame, a former juror is qualified to comment on this case? that is crazy