2012.02.07 - 911 Tapes Released

[Softail]

The 911 operator should be fired!

WHY? What did he do?

 

[LinasK]

The 911 operator should be fired!

Absolutely! And apparently officials in WA state also felt the 7min. questioning was unnecessary!
From what I read, I gather he assigned the call as a low-priority when he told her they have to respond to life-threatening emergencies first! Maybe she didn't word it perfectly so that he understood that, but that's not her fault, it's his!!! Why should he care if she was "supervising herself", or what color her car was? How was that relevant info???

 

[Softail]

To be completely frank and honest, there was nothing anyone could do from the moment JP decided he was going to do this, to the time he did this.

Everyone did their best, and while we can look back and see things we may have done differently, hindsight is always 20/20. Yes, we should look at, and examine, the series of events, but we should also always remember that we were NOT there, we did NOT have the pressure and the insanity in our faces, and we did NOT watch two children get brutally murdered by hatcheting and then explosions carried out by their father.

Josh Powell would have done this, period. It is luck, pure and simple, that we are not talking about a third murder (the S/W), or third and fourth murders (the Coxes).

I don't care how fast LE responded or didn't respond. They would never have been able to stop JP from igniting the blasts. Even if they were right outside, he would have done it.

If the 911 operator was a pure idiot, JP still would have done it.
If the 911 operator was able to send out squads right then, JP still would have done it.
If the kids had entered after the S/W, JP would have done it.
If visitation was not allowed, JP still would have done it, but at the Coxes' house.

It was gonna happen. From the moment when JP made up his mind this was how it was going to end, it was going to happen.

The responsibility of this lays only on JP. Not the social worker, and even if the 911 operator is a complete idiot, it's still not his fault. There were no actions anyone could take, even with dispatching immediately everything LE had including SWAT and HRT, that was going to stop JP.

JP was going to do what he did.

Best-
Herding Cats

This needs to be repeated....very well said!

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Please just hang on and save this discussion.

I am going to generate a new timeline thread.


Let this go for now and I will come back and provide a link.

Bumping

 

[liltexans]

Josh Powell's decision to kill his young sons and himself in a gasoline-fed inferno after taking a hatchet to the boys has triggered a public outcry that more wasn't done to protect the children. It's also led to several questions about the events leading up to the tragedy.

Pierce County Sheriff's Det. Ed Troyer said Wednesday that he's displeased at how a 911 dispatcher handled the frantic phone calls from a social worker just before Sunday's explosion. The worker had taken Charlie, 7, and his brother, Braden, 5, to Powell's front door; the door was then shut in her face.

The social worker can be heard pleading for help, while the dispatcher at points seems unable to grasp the urgency of the situation.

more here:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/02/social-worker-josh-powell-inferno.html

 

[LinasK]

This needs to be repeated....very well said!

I strongly disagree, 7-8 min. faster response time could well have saved those children's lives, despite Josh Powell's evil intentions! The 911 dispatcher failed them, as did the agency who approved letting him have home visits! They are the ones who enabled Josh Powell, besides his father! JMO
Firemen could have broken down the door with their axes, or a SWAT team could have taken him out before he lit the fire. He had enough time to attack the boys with the hatchet and send emails...
Also, department protocol for CPS should be to use common sense and call 911 ahead of calling your supervisor!

 

[cluciano63]

This is kind of OT but I've only had to call 911 once, for my mom when she gravely ill and I couldn't get her into a car...and the phone operator tried to talk me out of having an ambulance come, telling me I should just get her into the car and go myself, spent several minutes arguing with me and then the drivers, when they came were incredibly rude and put-out because it was just before shift change. These jobs, just like most others, are still staffed by humans and there will always be some major mistakes made...I'm not sure in this case with the children what could have been done. But I am sure the 911 operator and everyone else involved will face plenty of scrutiny and perhaps worse. JMO

 

[FrayedKnot]

What? Have you read some of the comments about her in this thread?

How would it help her to read that she was wrong becasue she banged on the door, how would it help her to read that she wasted too much time? Or that she waited 10 minutes before calling 911? That she was more worried about her car than the kids?

Respectfully, I have read this thread from the beginning and have yet to see anything but support and sympathy for the monitor who contracted with CPS. (she is not a SW).

Now that may be because Mods were on top of things and quickly removed any of those type posts, but I haven't seen a one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[beach]

Hang on. Beach is opening a timeline thread. We can work it out there.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7584015#post7584015"]Here is the link to the thread[/ame].


Read the Opening Post. VIP

 

[Yoda]

Regardless of what Josh intended, it doesn't mean everyone else should just give up and make it easy for him!!! If the dispatcher delayed relaying the SW's call in the least, he was guilty of negligence! A faster response time by the fire department may have saved the boys lives- it was smoke inhalation they died of, not the neck injuries.

I agree this man did not bring his A game, but he is a human and humans screw up. I believe he should be suspended, retrained, and then go through a supervisory period. I also agree that with the new timeline coming out there could have been a chance of police getting there before the explosion, but I do not believe any of the fault lies with the dispatcher. An evil man wanted to kill his children. Our government, we the people, have put police, 911 dispatchers, firefighters, social workers, and much more into place to try to keep these things from happening but there is no guarantee that they will succeed. It is unfair to expect people in these highly stressful jobs not to make a mistake. But I think it is fair, if a mistake is made, to expect the person to be evaluated and see if they are still right for the job.

 

[Softail]

I strongly disagree, 7-8 min. faster response time could well have saved those children's lives, despite Josh Powell's evil intentions! The 911 dispatcher failed them, as did the agency who approved letting him have home visits! They are the ones who enabled Josh Powell, besides his father! JMO
Firemen could have broken down the door with their axes, or a SWAT team could have taken him out before he lit the fire. He had enough time to attack the boys with the hatchet and send emails...

I disagree! There was no way.... Zero zilp zilch nada... no way no how.... that anyone could have saved those boys. The supervisor herself said she heard them crying, after 10 minutes. He sent the e-mails before they got there.

ETA: Like I said before... the info is immediate to the field... so no.... would not have made a difference!
I will agree with you that he should NEVER have been allowed to see them at all! Especially in his house! It should have been a neutral location if at all. In the future.... I really hope and pray that children in any similar situation are not allowed to be with a suspect parent!

 

[Nixie]

I think the minute Josh heard sirens or notice someone else around he would have thrown the match. Swat doesn't move that fast in most cases and LE would have likely had sirens or made Josh aware they were at the house to try and negotiate to get the boys out. I think has soon as the fire was lit everyone was done for anyone coming in the door would have went up with them. Josh didn't care he would have taken has many out with him as needed. I am not sure if LE or fire department would have even attempted to rush the house knowing there was gas and the dangers there wouldn't have been time to set anything up.

 

[Yoda]

:tyou: And with that I'm stepping away from this thread for a bit in order to preserve my membership here. :seeya:

I swear, every time i glanced away from your smileys I thought one of them was hitting the other. I kept going back to watch, they would just wave, and when I finally would look away again I swear their hands moved towards each other. If your smileys really do that then I want the link! .

Lol just saw that when I quoted you the smilies are no where near each other. Before everyone on thinks I'm losing it go look at the original post. They really are two tricky little smileys.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I can't find this church. Anyone? Might be my settings or sumptin'. Or town? Or newly formed church.. tia

First Bible Church, PUYALLUP, Wash

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-j...hts-on-murdersuicide-20120208,0,2152397.story

 

[luvhockey]

It will be interesting to see where the deputy was when he/she got the call. There is a precinct station about 1 mile from the house but I assume the officer was on patrol.
I believe that's by way the crow flies. Not sure actual driving mileage.

ETA: in my opinion it wouldn't have mattered, JP would've found a way to do this in some manner or another. I'm with others in that JP is the only one to blame.

 

[bessie]

I can't find this church. Anyone? Might be my settings or sumptin'. Or town? Or newly formed church.. tia

First Bible Church, PUYALLUP, Wash

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-j...hts-on-murdersuicide-20120208,0,2152397.story

I believe the correct name is Faith Bible Church, Dr. Know. The article got it wrong.

 

[epiphany]

The dispatcher seemed to be lacking the most basic definition of the term supervised visitation.

 

[jamiect]

If there was no dispatch for 8 minutes after the call from the case worker ended, the 911 operator was not dispatching a call during the phone conversation. His critical thinking is flawed. My experience has found that the majority of 911 workers and EMT's are nothing more than frustrated wannabe's and like to be in control, in the wrong way!

BBM... Huh?? Wannabe's for what?. My husband is is a firefighter and has to be EMT certified every 2 years. Ninety percent of 911 calls in our city is medically related,. in which many, many lives have been saved. I personally find this statement highly inflammatory.

Whether or not the street was lined with LE/Fire/Rescue, I highly doubt this heinous act could have produced a different outcome. Even if first responders were on the scene how could they extinguish a fire this size so quickly without any forewarning? JMO, but the children's lives were gone within mere seconds of the explosion (hopeful). JP's murderous act was very calculated and planned. I honestly believe that if JP had not this opportunity there would have been others. The only difference being the size of the audience and casualties.

FYI, my DH has had no desire to become anything other than what he is now. I am very proud of all first responders. JMO

 

[cluciano63]

Generalizing about any profession is not helpful, IMO...every job has great, good, average and poor employees...even those professions we count on most, doctors, nurses, 911 operators, etc...

If this particular 911 operator was normally on-the-ball, great at his job, and was having an off-day, so to speak, or thinking too much about the Super Bowl, for example, I am sure he will be punished, if not by losing his job, by his own conscious. If he was always careless, hopefully he will take a job in a line of work that does not involve matters of life and death. JMO

 

[SmoothOperator]

Quote:
Josh Powell's decision to kill his young sons and himself in a gasoline-fed inferno after taking a hatchet to the boys has triggered a public outcry that more wasn't done to protect the children. It's also led to several questions about the events leading up to the tragedy.

Pierce County Sheriff's Det. Ed Troyer said Wednesday that he's displeased at how a 911 dispatcher handled the frantic phone calls from a social worker just before Sunday's explosion. The worker had taken Charlie, 7, and his brother, Braden, 5, to Powell's front door; the door was then shut in her face.

The social worker can be heard pleading for help, while the dispatcher at points seems unable to grasp the urgency of the situation.
more here:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nati...l-inferno.html

I think this confirms what concerns are being raised about the particular 911 dispatcher here.. And that they are not rude, judgemental slurs but rather a very honest statement that the man was not behaving in the least bit a professional manner but rather very condescending and Inappropriately sarcastic manner..

No one is blaming him or anyone else for the murders.. That solely lies on Josh Powell.. But when in the process of bringing to light all of the events as they unfolded that day this 911 dispatchers unprofessional and inappropriate manner has too come to light and is of great concern to the city/county of which he serves as a 911 dispatcher for(as is clearly stated in the article above and others).. No one is placing blame on him for these precious children's death again that lies solely with Josh.. But how this man handled this situation is unacceptable, period.. He couldn't have saved Charlie and Braden but you damn well better believe that he is in a position of which will very much be the difference between life or death.. Many times over he will and it is unacceptable how he handled this call and now with those in positions above him will be able to go thru and do a fair investigation on how this man performs his job as a dispatcher(his calls will be reviewed to see was this his standard of care that he gave regularly)..these procedures very likely will be what saves someone else's lives.. And thats worth it IMO!!!