2012.05.17 Doc Dump Thread

[mikeysmommom]

He had the bleeding head and what made that mark on George's nose?

It was hard enough punch to break his nose could that mark be from the punch breaking his skin?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

How did GZ's blood get on TM then? One of the docs have GZ's dna on TM's clothing.

Way back in the beginning I guessed George had the mark on his nose and I thought it was from the slide of the gun coming back and hitting it. I figured he was in a contorted position when he fired. I would sure like to know where the guy lived that said he heard bushes at first.

 

[gxm]

What evidence exists that Trayvon Martin instigated or started a fight with George? I've seen evidence that George got his azz handed to him by a 17 year old kid, but what witness or otherwise shows who started it, other than the "say so" of an accused murderer?

The fact that a witness says Trayvon was on top of George means nothing in regards to who the instigator of the confrontation was. All that means is "some can sing it" but "others can bring it". Kinda like this video.

Take 1:55 and watch what I mean:

Punk Takes on Gulf War Vet and Gets Humiliated.avi - YouTube

BBM.

IMO, the autopsy results showing no injuries other than GSW on TM are strong evidence that TM started the fight. Further, they support GZ's story that he was attacked by surprise, which is probably why he never got any punches in. If GZ had retaliated or punched first, there would be at least one mark on TM.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Wouldn't the gun have to be up near the face for that scenario to happen. I find it strange that if GZ was on the bottom he would still be able to lift his arms up to that level while 158 pounds comes crashing down on him.

Maybe Martin had a hold of his gun hand twisting it or pushing it back?

 

[gator]

But that was the job of LE to check on TM. It was not within GZ's rights to track him down the way he did once he called LE and said he was suspicious. GZ knew better, but did it anyway. GZ looking at an innocent person and deeming him to be a criminal was victimizing TM when all TM was doing at the time was walking home. TM had that very same right. To live in peace and not be followed by an unknown person he felt threaten by. You can't take away someone else's right just because you prejudge them to be a criminal and they aren't. That's profiling. Trying to take control away from LE can get you into trouble so it's better to let them handle it in the first place. Do what you are suppose to do.....call it in and step back and let LE do their job. That's the only right you have otherwise you could end up like GZ. jmo

Exactly.

 

[Elley Mae]

Way back in the beginning I guessed George had the mark on his nose and I thought it was from the slide of the gun coming back and hitting it. I figured he was in a contorted position when he fired. I would sure like to know where the guy lived that said he heard bushes at first.

Yo Dr what's with the bushes?

 

[cityslick]

Maybe Martin had a hold of his gun hand twisting it or pushing it back?

Possible, although they could be marks on GZ's hand due to that. I don't know if LE would of even documented that TBH.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

It was hard enough punch to break his nose could that mark be from the punch breaking his skin?

That mark going down the side is just strange, it seems to me if it was made by a knuckle it should have just shattered the whole nose. Seems like there should be other knuckle marks too.

 

[stmarysmead]

For those who say this "crime" is about profiling...IMO you can criminalize "profiling" but you cannot stop people from basing their fears on common sense and the reality of wHERE THEY LIVE. If a Black community is being targeted by Whites in whote sheets, it is tragic if an innocent white kid is shot as he walks to show a friend his Halloween Ghost costume. But I would defend the right of thatBlack community to fear him...it is statistically honest.

It was statistically honest for GZ to watch TM that night. Even if GZ is made a scapegoat, people will continue to base their fears and suspicions on the reality of the descriptions of the Criminals victimizing THEIR neighborhood. This is not RACE specific...it is FACT specific. And it is a natural part of our human quality for self protection.,

 

[cityslick]

Exactly.

Look I agree that the guy should of stayed in the car but at the same token I don't think the law allows TM to physically attack the guy because he didn't like that he was checking him out.

If that's how it went down.

 

[cityslick]

That mark going down the side is just strange, it seems to me if it was made by a knuckle it should have just shattered the whole nose. Seems like there should be other knuckle marks too.

Could of been a glancing blow that caught the side of the nose. Remember, the fight didn't last long.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Yo Dr what's with the bushes?

One guy was sitting in his living room and said he thought he heard bushes at first. I was written up strange by the investigator let me see if I can find it fast.

 

[Elley Mae]

One guy was sitting in his living room and said he thought he heard bushes at first. I was written up strange by the investigator let me see if I can find it fast.

Something like the sound he heard maybe rustling of a bush?

 

[cityslick]

One guy was sitting in his living room and said he thought he heard bushes at first. I was written up strange by the investigator let me see if I can find it fast.

I found it, on page 41:

He states he and ... heard a 'scuffle' or 'rustling of bushes' coming from behind his residence.

It's actually a weird statement, because I wouldn't think a scuffle would sound like bushes.

 

[mikeysmommom]

What evidence exists that Trayvon Martin instigated or started a fight with George? I've seen evidence that George got his azz handed to him by a 17 year old kid, but what witness or otherwise shows who started it, other than the "say so" of an accused murderer?

The fact that a witness says Trayvon was on top of George means nothing in regards to who the instigator of the confrontation was. All that means is "some can sing it" but "others can bring it". Kinda like this video.

Take 1:55 and watch what I mean:

Punk Takes on Gulf War Vet and Gets Humiliated.avi - YouTube

TM's alleged girl friend her words do show TM was the one who made first contact when she heard TM say why are you following me.IMO TM confronted GZ verbally if he would have just kept walking instead of going to GZ for a confrontation maybe this never would have happened.I find it very sad that people who honestly have no idea who threw the first punch our gloating that he kicked GZ azz.IMO if he did hit GZ first like I believe he did I would much rather TM walked all the way home and GZ was never attacked.JMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Something like the sound he heard maybe rustling of a bush?

he heard some "scuffling" or "rustling of bushes" pg 42 paragraph 5.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I found it, on page 41:

He states he and ... heard a 'scuffle' or 'rustling of bushes' coming from behind his residence.

It's actually a weird statement, because I wouldn't think a scuffle would sound like bushes.

It is and that is the investigators writeup. Wonder if that is really what the guys words were.

 

[stmarysmead]

Why would GZ punch TM with the police on the way? That makes no sense. "oh hi, police officiers...I just killed the guy because you took too long."
That is a real stretch. You would call police AFTER your "murder"

But a young man...ingesting an illegal drug....already on his third suspension in his second school...verbally confronts someone following him...and then, not knowing police are coming...decides to beat this annoying guy to a pulp.

GZ had a right to protect himself from even more grave injuries. Witnesses substantiate that he cried out for help...some other way to stop the beating. Trayvon would not stop. The gun settled it.

WHY DIDN'T TRAYVON STOP THE BEATING? Why isn't this question asked? After he decked GZ...what "right" did he have to keep slamming his head into concrete? If there had been no gun, Trayvon would surely be alive but also HE might also be on trial. What RIGHT to beat GZ so viciously? He could have STOPPED once he had the advantage. He did not.

How severely can you beat someone for annoying you these days?

All because he felt no one had the right to "watch" him. No one at school, no one at this condo complex.

 

[deelytful1]

For those who say this "crime" is about profiling...IMO you can criminalize "profiling" but you cannot stop people from basing their fears on common sense and the reality of wHERE THEY LIVE. If a Black community is being targeted by Whites in whote sheets, it is tragic if an innocent white kid is shot as he walks to show a friend his Halloween Ghost costume. But I would defend the right of thatBlack community to fear him...it is statistically honest.

It was statistically honest for GZ to watch TM that night. Even if GZ is made a scapegoat, people will continue to base their fears and suspicions on the reality of the descriptions of the Criminals victimizing THEIR neighborhood. This is not RACE specific...it is FACT specific. And it is a natural part of our human quality for self protection.,

FACT: GZ was NOT Law Enforcement. He was not trained as an LEO and he had no authority to follow and confront Trayvon... especially NOT with a gun at his side. If the neighborhood was being "victimized" perhaps LE should have thought enough of it to be a presence in the area??? Just food for thought.

 

[deelytful1]

GZ had a right to protect himself from even more grave injuries. Witnesses substantiate that he cried out for help...some other way to stop the beating. Trayvon would not stop. The gun settled it.

Respectfully snipped and BBM

And Trayvon had a right to walk home from 7-11 without being stalked/profiled and killed.