2015.12.02 Discovery Documents - Batch 1

[Cymbaline]

Bringing this over from the sidebar thread.


Anyone catch the petechial hemorrhages in the section Involvement Of the Medical Examiner??

Did they try to strangle her?

Bates page #4

 

[irishchook]

Bringing this over from the sidebar thread.


Anyone catch the petechial hemorrhages in the section Involvement Of the Medical Examiner??

Did they try to strangle her?

Bates page #4

I did see that. Hopefully someone with a medical background can chime in.

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[Timekeeper65]

I did see that. Hopefully someone with a medical background can chime in.

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I found this regarding petechial hemorrhages.
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/ev...ath-was-the-subject-of-theserial-podcast.html

The initial important point to note is that: Petechiae do not prove strangulation and their absence does not disprove it; they are simply a marker of increased cephalic venous pressure (Ely & Hirsch, 2000; Hawley, McClane & Strack, 2001; Hawley, 2002). Ther presentations may include voice changes, hyperventilation, difficulty breathing, vomiting, aspiration, difficulty swallowing and adult respiratory distress syndrome.
Nonetheless, you are very likely to find petechiae in cases of strangulation. Here are some relevant excerpts:

From Moulton v. State, 395 S.W.3d 804, 806 (Tex.Crin.App. 2013):

The medical examiner explained that in eighty-five percent of manual strangulation cases, petechiae—small red or purple spots caused by a hemorrhage—are present in the eye.

 

[irishchook]

I found this regarding petechial hemorrhages.
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/ev...ath-was-the-subject-of-theserial-podcast.html

The initial important point to note is that: Petechiae do not prove strangulation and their absence does not disprove it; they are simply a marker of increased cephalic venous pressure (Ely & Hirsch, 2000; Hawley, McClane & Strack, 2001; Hawley, 2002). Ther presentations may include voice changes, hyperventilation, difficulty breathing, vomiting, aspiration, difficulty swallowing and adult respiratory distress syndrome.
Nonetheless, you are very likely to find petechiae in cases of strangulation. Here are some relevant excerpts:

From Moulton v. State, 395 S.W.3d 804, 806 (Tex.Crin.App. 2013):

The medical examiner explained that in eighty-five percent of manual strangulation cases, petechiae—small red or purple spots caused by a hemorrhage—are present in the eye.

Wow. If so, that's pretty disturbing!

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[Cymbaline]

Does anyone know if CWW is left handed?

 

[SurfieTX]

Does anyone know if CWW is left handed?

No, but I Really want to know.

 

[atthelake]

No, but I Really want to know.

What is all this discussion about who is left and right handed. this is the second person people are asking about. what is the relevance?

 

[Cymbaline]

What is all this discussion about who is left and right handed. this is the second person people are asking about. what is the relevance?

Bates Page #4

Most of her injuries are to her right side and it appears she was strangled. IMO. Someone was standing in front of her face to face when she was attacked. That person IMO would be left handed.


IMO.JMO..MOO

 

[creepingskills]

Using the references in the investigative report, TS was found directly to the left of the island. Head pointing north, in the direction of the living room? I think the fridge would have been to TS's left.



"Directly in front of the doorway to the kitchen is a dog bowl. Just past there, slightly to the right, a single hammer with a black and red shaft is lying on the tile"

So many doorways to the kitchen! Does this mean (1) the doorway from the living room to the kitchen (is this even a doorway?), (2) the bowl was placed to the right of the fridge, or (3) along the wall of what looks to be a pantRy? :thinking:

 

[irishchook]

Using the references in the investigative report, TS was found directly to the left of the island. Head pointing north, in the direction of the living room? I think the fridge would have been to TS's left.

View attachment 85257

"Directly in front of the doorway to the kitchen is a dog bowl. Just past there, slightly to the right, a single hammer with a black and red shaft is lying on the tile"

So many doorways to the kitchen! Does this mean (1) the doorway from the living room to the kitchen (is this even a doorway?), (2) the bowl was placed to the right of the fridge, or (3) along the wall of what looks to be a panty? :thinking:

From what I read, and I'm totally going by memory. The interior garage door led into a laundry room which led into the kitchen. So, from the garage, there would be 2 doors to go through to be in the kitchen.

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[SurfieTX]

Does anyone know if CWW is left handed?

Bates Page #4

Most of her injuries are to her right side and it appears she was strangled. IMO. Someone was standing in front of her face to face when she was attacked. That person IMO would be left handed.


IMO.JMO..MOO

Not to mention that BS was documented as being right handed.

 

[creepingskills]

Bates Page #4

Most of her injuries are to her right side and it appears she was strangled. IMO. Someone was standing in front of her face to face when she was attacked. That person IMO would be left handed.


IMO.JMO..MOO

So CWW and/or JR must have been waiting somewhere to TS's right if they attacked from behind, but to her left if they attacked head on? Makes sense if the approach was face to face because a left handed assailant would cause damage to the right of the head. I'm left handed so forgive me if I have it backwards, always do.:facepalm:

 

[irishchook]

So CWW and/or JR must have been waiting somewhere to TS's right if they attacked from behind, but to her left if they attacked head on? Makes sense if the approach was face to face because a left handed assailant would cause damage to the right of the head. I'm left handed so forgive me if I have it backwards, always do.:facepalm:

I'm thinking they may have been waiting in the laundry/mudroom.

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[atthelake]

Bates Page #4

Most of her injuries are to her right side and it appears she was strangled. IMO. Someone was standing in front of her face to face when she was attacked. That person IMO would be left handed.


IMO.JMO..MOO

thank you I have missed that. I find that interesting that is in a police report as if somebody is determined to be left handed. Or was that your :moo: ?

Consider that she was incapacitated from the very beginning and not standing up for all of the strikes...that she was face down on the floor, and cannot do anything; the right handed person strikes would be on the right hand side with injuries would they not ? I can't imagine somebody standing up for all of the injuries.. I would think they would be on the floor. As she was found ..face down... Right hand to right side of the skull.

Sorry to be so graphic

As an aside, I am left handed when I write and eat.

I shoot guns, bat, throw, bowl, water ski, etc ...pretty much * everything* else I am right handed.

Everyone that knows me would say I was left handed because they only see it when I am writing left handed... but everything with strength other than writing... I am right handed. EVERYTHING other than writing and eating.

Don't know if that is important but I thought I would just share

 

[Spyglass]

I thought the first responding officers noted her bags were at the door from the garage to the laundry room and noted blood spatter by the washer or dryer?

 

[Cymbaline]

I'm thinking they may have been waiting in the laundry/mudroom.

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Bates Page #2

blood on the rectangular storage freezer adjacent to the door..


I think she was attacked in the garage.


IMO.JMO.MOO

 

[irishchook]

I thought the first responding officers noted her bags were at the door from the garage to the laundry room and noted blood spatter by the washer or dryer?

Yes, I remember that as well. A lot of people keep their interior garage locked, so maybe she put her luggage down on the garage floor in order to unlock the interior garage door (leading to laundry room) and was then ambushed.

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[creepingskills]

thank you I have missed that. I find that interesting that is in a police report as if somebody is determined to be left handed. face down on the floor, and cannot do anything; the right handed person would be on the right hand side with injuries.

As an aside, I am left handed when I write and eat.

I shoot guns, bat, throw, water ski, etc ...pretty much * everything* else I am right handed.

Everyone that knows me would say I was left handed because they only see it when I am writing left handed... but everything with strength other than writing... I am right handed. EVERYTHING other than writing and eating.

Don't know if that is important but I thought I would just share

It is, IMO! To consider whether CWW/JR could be ambidextrous. I'm more of an extreme lefty, as in I hate doing anything with my right side which makes life tough.:boohoo:

 

[concernedmother]

I wonder if TS knew that there was $40,000 in one of the safes? He said they lived payday to payday .With patients paying cash it would be easy for him to pocket that money and start his own kill fund or whatever. I cant imagine why someone would want that much money in the home when there is a thing called banks and interest being paid.

 

[Satchie]

Using the references in the investigative report, TS was found directly to the left of the island. Head pointing north, in the direction of the living room?
View attachment 85257

"Directly in front of the doorway to the kitchen is a dog bowl. Just past there, slightly to the right, a single hammer with a black and red shaft is lying on the tile"

So many doorways to the kitchen! Does this mean (1) the doorway from the living room to the kitchen (is this even a doorway?), (2) the bowl was placed to the right of the fridge, or (3) along the wall of what looks to be a pantRy? :thinking:

As I read it in the investigative report, it describes walking into the kitchen from the laundry room/garage, they saw TS to their left, a dog bowl in front and the hammer to the right.

The dog bowl seems very out of place in this. I don't think the dogs were supposed to be in the kitchen, their access was blocked by the doors into the living room. On the other hand, I can't imagine a crime scenario where the perps brought a dog bowl with them, for eg to lure a dog with treats into another room.