33 souls on cargo ship missing in Hurricane Joaquin, October 2015

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  • #61
JMO
The more we learn the more I think the captain made foolish errors. I think he was way too confident and way too optimistic. This statement he made is just ridiculous to me. I think at that point the situation was already dire and he did not see it that way.
There is no way the situation is manageable when you are taking on water, tilting 15 degrees, have no electricity, etc. Im sorry, but that is the time to give MAY-DAYS and immediately start to call in for rescue.


"At 7:20 a.m. that same day, El Faro sent out a distress signal saying it had lost electricity, was taking on water and was listing 15 degrees, but that the situation was still “manageable.”"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...out-here-and-we-are-heading-straight-into-it/
 
  • #62
Betty P said:
This NYT article reports on the growing questions about the safety on the ship and the decision to continue heading into the hurricane's path when other ships were trying to avoid it.

Questions Are Raised About Safety on Ship Missing After Storm

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/07/us/questions-are-raised-about-safety-on-ship-missing-after-storm.html?_r=0



The former quartermaster also said the ship kept all the "Gumby" suits in one room, when they're normally kept in each person's room so they can be accessed quickly. He also said it was likely the captain didn't chart a course away from the hurricane because the ship was typically in a hurry to avoid penalties for late delivery of freight.

I also heard on the news tonight that the captain had reported his engines were dead. That's really bad news in a storm.
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BBM. That's what I feared the most; that decisions were made based on job loss due to pressure from land-bound company owners worried about late penalties or fines. When will human life come first??? I despise the Wall Street 80's philosophy that "Greed is Good".
 
  • #63
So often today, staff are given more and more responsibilities and when same staff are late getting out, they are chastised for poor organization when they are trying to accomplish the impossible. Even from a management standpoint, it is easier in an "employer's market" to pressure people into making things sound less serious than they are, because in the event they do survive, management stress will negatively affect them. Catch 22, IMO and I am so disheartened and sad that those precious lives were lost.
 
  • #64
An old ship vs cat 4 hurricane. Ship isn't going to win
It's bizarre because ship went right into the hurricane. Hard to understand what the captain was thinking.
Better pay a penalty for late delivery than be dead. Why were they heading right into hurricane? Couldn't they turn around?


"We are heading straight into it, Category 3, last we checked," Danielle Randolph wrote, according to CNN affiliate WFOX. "Winds are super bad. Love to everyone."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/us/el-faro-missing-ship-victims/
 
  • #65
jjenny said:
An old ship vs cat 4 hurricane. Ship isn't going to win
It's bizarre because ship went right into the hurricane. Hard to understand what the captain was thinking.
Better pay a penalty for late delivery than be dead.
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I agree JJ. Also want to note that the company owners aren't the ones dying. But I believe they're making the decisions and pressuring. I have no first hand knowledge other that my own and others' work experience and influences from the current economy.
 
  • #66
  • #67
So that's it, then ?? :(

I hope they will recover the unidentified body and do a dna test on him/her. That may be the only remains for a burial.
Was also hoping they could at least recover the other bodies.... Probably impossible given the depths the ship sank into.

My sympathies to the families and other loved ones. It would have been better for the cargo to be late even with penalties -- and everyone on board ALIVE. Jeeze. :gaah:

:moo:
 
  • #68
How long did they search for this ship and its passengers compared to the search for Austin and Perry?
 
  • #69
eileenhawkeye said:
How long did they search for this ship and its passengers compared to the search for Austin and Perry?
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Good point. They searched for those kids for 16 days. Comparatively they have only done five days of searching for the El Faro crew. Thats said there is zero chance of any of them still being alive. But it would be nice if they would recover what ever human remains that can reasonably be found. I hope that there is some effort underway to do that, and they are just not publicizing it.
 
  • #70
If I were a family member it would haunt me wondering if my loved one was out there floating waiting to be rescued. Although we pretty much know there is no way one could have survive in a life boat in that storm, it would bother me until I had the remains to bury.




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  • #71
KaaBoom said:
Do you have a source to back that up? I have never heard of such a thing. Italy just spend two months to recover the bodies of 800 refugees from a shipwreck, and returned them to their families. You are telling me that Italy will recover the bodies of 800 refugees, but the US government will not even pull the bodies of dead American citizens out of the ocean? I have to see a reliable source, before I will believe that.
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I'm guesing the ferry didnt sink in 15,000 feet of water and they knew where the bodies were. I'm also guessing they didnt recover every single body.

The body from El Faro was not recovered because there were other body suits in the water they had to check over a length of distance.

As far a I can tell, the body was not recovered at all since then so I suppose there is your reliable source that these bodies will not be recovered.
 
  • #72
QueenD said:
If I were a family member it would haunt me wondering if my loved one was out there floating waiting to be rescued. Although we pretty much know there is no way one could have survive in a life boat in that storm, it would bother me until I had the remains to bury.
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Actually if they were in a lifeboat, survival might be possible. My understanding is that the lifeboats are pretty much unsinkable. But unfortunately I think there is pretty good evidence that they never even had a chance to launch the life boats. Since one life boat has been found empty and badly damaged, and the other is missing entirely. Any crew members who survived the wreck would have been in the water. Which I would guess is the reason the Coast Guard gave up the search at this time. Under those conditions none of them could have survived more then probably a couple of hours.
 
  • #73
Hiandmighty said:
I'm guesing the ferry didnt sink in 15,000 feet of water and they knew where the bodies were. I'm also guessing they didnt recover every single body.

The body from El Faro was not recovered because there were other body suits in the water they had to check over a length of distance.

As far a I can tell, the body was not recovered at all since then so I suppose there is your reliable source that these bodies will not be recovered.
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According to wikipedia, 800 bodies are still missing from the ferry and the ferry sank in 1,250 feet of water so nothing is the same.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_migrant_vessel_incidents_on_the_Mediterranean_Sea
 
  • #74
KaaBoom said:
Actually if they were in a lifeboat, survival might be possible. My understanding is that the lifeboats are pretty much unsinkable. But unfortunately I think there is pretty good evidence that they never even had a , chance to launch the life boats. Since one life boat has been found empty and badly damaged, and the other is missing entirely. Any crew members who survived the wreck would have been in the water. Which I would guess is the reason the Coast Guard gave up the search at this time. Under those conditions none of them could have survived more then probably a couple of hours.
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No vessel is unsinkable, and no vessel can claim to be unsinkable.

Exposure, Dehydration, head injuries and injuries are only a few factors in survival...

A category 4 hurrican will win every time
 
  • #75
Hiandmighty said:
I'm guesing the ferry didnt sink in 15,000 feet of water and they knew where the bodies were. I'm also guessing they didnt recover every single body.

The body from El Faro was not recovered because there were other body suits in the water they had to check over a length of distance.

As far a I can tell, the body was not recovered at all since then so I suppose there is your reliable source that these bodies will not be recovered.
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I think you are correct. The most recent report I can find about body recovery is :

The Tunisian captain of the boat, 27-year-old Mohammed Ali Malek, has been arrested and charged with manslaughter, Italian prosecutors said Tuesday. A Syrian crew member was also charged. The prosecutor's office said many of the migrants may have been locked inside the boat when it sank. Only 24 bodies have been recovered.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/eu...sis-death-toll-capsize-thought-be-800-n345916
 
  • #76
  • #77
Hiandmighty said:
I'm guesing the ferry didnt sink in 15,000 feet of water and they knew where the bodies were. I'm also guessing they didnt recover every single body.

The body from El Faro was not recovered because there were other body suits in the water they had to check over a length of distance.

As far a I can tell, the body was not recovered at all since then so I suppose there is your reliable source that these bodies will not be recovered.
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The Mediterranean ship wreck was in 1200 feet of water. What does that have to do with it? We are talking about a body that the Coast Guard had in their possession on the surface of the water. So how deep the water was is irrelevant.

You claimed that it is common knowledge that bodies are not recovered in that situation. I have never heard that, and I can find no evidence to support your claim. In fact in just the last few weeks the Coast Guard has recovered the body of a Woman who fell off a cruise ship off the coast of Massachusetts, and a Coast Guard diver recovered the body of a swimmer in Oregon. So to say that the Coast Guard doesn't recover bodies is just ridicules.
 
  • #78
  • #79
KaaBoom said:
The Mediterranean ship wreck was in 1200 feet of water. What does that have to do with it? We are talking about a body that the Coast Guard had in their possession on the surface of the water. So how deep the water was is irrelevant.

You claimed that it is common knowledge that bodies are not recovered in that situation. I have never heard that, and I can find no evidence to support your claim. In fact in just the last few weeks the Coast Guard has recovered the body of a Woman who fell off a cruise ship off the coast of Massachusetts, and a Coast Guard diver recovered the body of a swimmer in Oregon. So to say that the Coast Guard doesn't recover bodies is just ridicules.
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I am a boater. I was refering to the concept of watery grave. If you boat, you know if you die your final resting place is going to be in the water.

You said I said coast guard doesn't recover bodies. I never said that. I did say coast guard did not recover this one body because they did not.
 
  • #80
Hiandmighty said:
No vessel is unsinkable, and no vessel can claim to be unsinkable.

Exposure, Dehydration, head injuries and injuries are only a few factors in survival...

A category 4 hurrican will win every time
Click to expand...

What lifesaving equipment is onboard the vessel?

El Faro has 2 lifeboats – one lifeboat on each side of the ship.Each is designed to be unsinkable even if full of water and full of crew.The lifeboats can be launched without ships power from their gravity davits. Each lifeboat can hold 43
Click to expand...

http://elfaroincident.com/resources/faqs/
 
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