4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[maconrich]

I know the professor initiated confrontation between BK and students has already been discussed a lot, so sorry for bringing it up again. I mainly want to focus on the main complaint made by the small number of students who spoke to the press.

First, I agree with @BeginnerSleuther that his lack of interpersonal communication skills could likely have been a legitimate issue, but it also seems clear students felt he graded too hard. Plain and simple. So they were annoyed and wanted to (and did) argue for better grades, with those doing well in the class siding with BK and the rest opposing him.' And it seems like he was instructed to give good grades, and he did. MOO.

I recently looked at rate my teacher responses for one of my favorite professors and the comments were brutal. Graded too harshly, expected too much of students, too critical regarding papers, etc, etc -- and IMHO it seems like BK's students may have felt the same about him. Mind you, my professor had charisma and was extremely intelligent but also easy to talk to, and while BK seems intelligent, I'm not sure we've heard him described as charismatic or easy to talk to. But those factors didn't seem to matter to students rating my fav professor. It was all about the grades, and that IMHO brings into question how much time and effort (some) students are willing to put into a class in order to earn good grades. And I'm guessing the answer is not much or at least not enough. And I don't think that reflects on the teacher as much as the students. So, no, I'm not willing to believe BK isn't intelligent or can't grade papers, and there's no way I'd ever condone what the professor of that class did. I will concede that BK most likely had other problems regarding being a TA, but lack of intelligence wasn't one of them. All MOO

From the article linked below with BBM:

"He'd be grading you on what he ended up calling a 'higher standard,'" Stinchfield said. "But what it really felt like to us was he was grading us like he would have graded himself as a Ph.D. student... We were all annoyed by him."

In fact, Stinchfield said his professor allowed the students to argue for better grades at one point in the semester to get a "courtroom experience."

"He brought in Bryan, and he was like, 'alright, go at him,'" Stinchfield said. "And he had Bryan stand up. And a few people were on his side because they wanted to keep their high grades... but for the most part, it was like half of a 150-person class just asking these real critical questions."

Bryan Kohberger's former student describes abrupt behavior change after Idaho college murders

The criminology student said Kohberger's grading style took an abrupt turn after the murders took place.

abc11.com

 

[Nova]

Sorry for not getting what you meant - my brain is beyond blurry tonight. So yes, I do agree that he didn't seem to under a time limit and could have stayed longer if he'd opted to. I do wonder if he'd set some sort of time for himself. Possibly not, but it sure doesn't seem like he lingered. No staging of victims that we know of and doesn't seem like he even took much time to take in what he'd done. He seemed focused on quick kills and then leaving. Or maybe not. Just my thoughts based on the little we know.
Edited because I skipped the message: I guess that's the mindset someone might need in order to do such horrific things...

That would be consistent with intending to kill one victim--as some of us speculate--but feeling he was already forced to kill three others as well.

I'm not suggesting he felt "sorry", just that he may have felt he had already been diverted enough and didn't go looking for more roommates on the middle and lower floors.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Sources: Bryan Kohberger made sexist remarks toward women

The sources, who wished to remain anonymous, said Kohberger talked down to female students and graded them unfairly.

www.newsnationnow.com

University of Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger was known for his rampant sexism among those he worked with and had a reputation for grading female students harsher than men, multiple sources told NewsNation’s Chris Cuomo.

The 28-year-old, who is accused of killing four college students, was studying criminology at Washington State University (WSU) where sources said he often made chauvinistic and condescending remarks toward women.

Kohberger allegedly told female colleagues that men were going to take their jobs because women aren’t as smart, according to someone associated with him at WSU.

 

[jepop]

I learned yesterday about the pathway to violence from Special Agent Grusing. Intend, plan, acquire, implement.

I wonder how these steps might apply to and inform BK.

Intend. Form the thought. I'm going to guess the thoughts began in high school. Maybe a generic intent.

Plan. When did that happen? Did he stalk regularly? Fantasize often? Was his fantasy less about sex and more about domination? Conquer. Did he stalk via dating apps? Did he strike up online relationships in random areas? Multiple online-personalities disorder... did he meet one of the roommates that way? Maybe not in person but some contact? Then he stalked and sleuthed his way to an address? Or did he stop at the Greek restaurant? Awkward encounter with a waitress? Followed her home?

Acquire. When did he acquire the sheathed knife? What else? Extra running clothes, slim fit, black? Miner's light? Nitrile gloves? Face mask...

Implement. Why this night? Why not the previous eleven times? Had he been in the house before? Why not then?

Murder, months in the making? Weeks? Years?

If only he'd stayed in the academic lane, studying criminal behavior and the minds of murderers instead of diving in.

JMO

It's interesting huh, and I had similar thoughts when watching some of Special agent Grusing's testimony in the Leticia Stauch trial yesterday too. He seemed to refer to Pathways To Violence as a meta model developed over the years by the FBI Behavioural Analysisi Unit. Used to try and pick up red flags for school shootings but applicable to other sorts of violent crime across the board. MOO

The word that stuck out to me was "breach". I remember the steps Grusing described as: acquire grievance; form/have an idea to relieve via violence; plan, expand; acquire what is needed; then breach. MOO. The word breach was interesting to me because it suggests a line or boundary that the potential offender breaks through with deliberate effort. Not all who reach that step will be capable/have what it takes to 'breach". But this killer did cross the line on Nov 13th. MOO

 

[maconrich]

That would be consistent with intending to kill one victim--as some of us speculate--but feeling he was already forced to kill three others as well.

I'm not suggesting he felt "sorry", just that he may have felt he had already been diverted enough and didn't go looking for more roommates on the middle and lower floors.

Maybe? I'm like 60% that he planned on killing more than one, and a more hesitant 40% that he only had one target. (But I keep going back to leaning toward more than one so the %'s change.)

 

[Nova]

To a degree (no pun intended), I agree with you. Being an expert in a particular field does not a genius make. And some very smart & educated people lack common sense.

That said, it is the ability to reason, apply logic, problem solve, reach verifiable conclusions, etc., which higher education is intended to cultivate & often does.

Too many people have no deep reasoning abilities. Whether they routinely deploy them or not, I think most people with higher education attainment do. Whether that ability can overcome character & moral flaws? Not so much.

JMHO

Exactly right. When I applied to grad school I had to take something called the Graduate Record Exam or GRE. 2/3s of it was like the SAT (math and verbal), but the other third consisted entirely of logic problems. That was the "sort" of intelligence most universities looked for in grad school candidates.

I did well enough on the test to be admitted. But it never crossed my mind that I was smart enough to get away with murder! (Of course, I've yet to meet the man or woman I WANT to murder, but that's a different issue.)

 

[Boxer]

I know the professor initiated confrontation between BK and students has already been discussed a lot, so sorry for bringing it up again. I mainly want to focus on the main complaint made by the small number of students who spoke to the press.

First, I agree with @BeginnerSleuther that his lack of interpersonal communication skills could likely have been a legitimate issue, but it also seems clear students felt he graded too hard. Plain and simple. So they were annoyed and wanted to (and did) argue for better grades, with those doing well in the class siding with BK and the rest opposing him.' And it seems like he was instructed to give good grades, and he did. MOO.

I recently looked at rate my teacher responses for one of my favorite professors and the comments were brutal. Graded too harshly, expected too much of students, too critical regarding papers, etc, etc -- and IMHO it seems like BK's students may have felt the same about him. Mind you, my professor had charisma and was extremely intelligent but also easy to talk to, and while BK seems intelligent, I'm not sure we've heard him described as charismatic or easy to talk to. But those factors didn't seem to matter to students rating my fav professor. It was all about the grades, and that IMHO brings into question how much time and effort (some) students are willing to put into a class in order to earn good grades. And I'm guessing the answer is not much or at least not enough. And I don't think that reflects on the teacher as much as the students. So, no, I'm not willing to believe BK isn't intelligent or can't grade papers, and there's no way I'd ever condone what the professor of that class did. I will concede that BK most likely had other problems regarding being a TA, but lack of intelligence wasn't one of them. All MOO

From the article linked below with BBM:

"He'd be grading you on what he ended up calling a 'higher standard,'" Stinchfield said. "But what it really felt like to us was he was grading us like he would have graded himself as a Ph.D. student... We were all annoyed by him."

In fact, Stinchfield said his professor allowed the students to argue for better grades at one point in the semester to get a "courtroom experience."

"He brought in Bryan, and he was like, 'alright, go at him,'" Stinchfield said. "And he had Bryan stand up. And a few people were on his side because they wanted to keep their high grades... but for the most part, it was like half of a 150-person class just asking these real critical questions."

Bryan Kohberger's former student describes abrupt behavior change after Idaho college murders

The criminology student said Kohberger's grading style took an abrupt turn after the murders took place.

abc11.com

MOO There were also questions of fairness and overt sexism in his comments and grading, not just harshness or too high of standards.

 

[maconrich]

MOO There were also questions of fairness and overt sexism in his comments and grading, not just harshness or too high of standards.

Yes, those were the other problems with him as a TA that I alluded to. If those reports are true, they can't be excused. But most of the students that have spoken to media focus on the grades and then how he gave better grades after the professor encouraged them confront him in class.
Edited to add: I'm not saying BK would make a good teacher or that he's a likeable person.

 

[Nova]

I don't see any academic achievements and excellence. Just good grades. Did a poor job teaching and didn't have the sense to leave his phone at home when stalking and committing homicide burglary in Moscow. Drove his car in front of a ton of cameras.

DeSales graduation, spring 2020 | Times News Online

DeSales University celebrated the Class of 2020 and all of its contributions with a virtual conferral of degrees ceremony. The university conferred degrees upon 497 students, including undergraduates,...

www.tnonline.com

DeSales graduation, spring 2020​

Published June 20. 2020 06:39AM
DeSales University celebrated the Class of 2020 and all of its contributions with a virtual conferral of degrees ceremony.

Albrightsville: Bryan Kohberger, B.S., psychology, c u m laude

C u m laude is a Latim term that means “with honor.” In the academic world, it indicates the lowest of the three levels of Latin honors a student can earn.

You are absolutely right that, in English, we usually translate c.u.m. laude as with honor.

But on behalf of the Latin students among us, I have to point out that it technically means with praise. (Magna = "great"; summa = "greatest" or "highest".)

Sorry to be "that guy". LOL.

Not all schools offer all three levels of "praise". I don't know DeSales' policy; it's possible BK had an A+ average but his uni only offered the one level of honor.

 

[Nova]

That may be true but he was only one semester into his studies at WSU. Obviously he was having trouble as a TA but that's not quite the same undertaking as earning course grades. However I will say that grades in doctoral programs aren't viewed the same as undergrad grades. It's assumed everybody is competent. And in my experience, usually everyone is. There's often competition in grad school but it isn't for course grades.
JMO

In the doctoral program I attended, a grade of "B" was practically an invitation to withdraw. At best it put one "on notice".

A B+ meant you weren't living up to expectations, but the instructor thought you could improve.

 

[Nova]

I know the professor initiated confrontation between BK and students has already been discussed a lot, so sorry for bringing it up again. I mainly want to focus on the main complaint made by the small number of students who spoke to the press.

First, I agree with @BeginnerSleuther that his lack of interpersonal communication skills could likely have been a legitimate issue, but it also seems clear students felt he graded too hard. Plain and simple. So they were annoyed and wanted to (and did) argue for better grades, with those doing well in the class siding with BK and the rest opposing him.' And it seems like he was instructed to give good grades, and he did. MOO.

I recently looked at rate my teacher responses for one of my favorite professors and the comments were brutal. Graded too harshly, expected too much of students, too critical regarding papers, etc, etc -- and IMHO it seems like BK's students may have felt the same about him. Mind you, my professor had charisma and was extremely intelligent but also easy to talk to, and while BK seems intelligent, I'm not sure we've heard him described as charismatic or easy to talk to. But those factors didn't seem to matter to students rating my fav professor. It was all about the grades, and that IMHO brings into question how much time and effort (some) students are willing to put into a class in order to earn good grades. And I'm guessing the answer is not much or at least not enough. And I don't think that reflects on the teacher as much as the students. So, no, I'm not willing to believe BK isn't intelligent or can't grade papers, and there's no way I'd ever condone what the professor of that class did. I will concede that BK most likely had other problems regarding being a TA, but lack of intelligence wasn't one of them. All MOO

From the article linked below with BBM:

"He'd be grading you on what he ended up calling a 'higher standard,'" Stinchfield said. "But what it really felt like to us was he was grading us like he would have graded himself as a Ph.D. student... We were all annoyed by him."

In fact, Stinchfield said his professor allowed the students to argue for better grades at one point in the semester to get a "courtroom experience."

"He brought in Bryan, and he was like, 'alright, go at him,'" Stinchfield said. "And he had Bryan stand up. And a few people were on his side because they wanted to keep their high grades... but for the most part, it was like half of a 150-person class just asking these real critical questions."

Bryan Kohberger's former student describes abrupt behavior change after Idaho college murders

The criminology student said Kohberger's grading style took an abrupt turn after the murders took place.

abc11.com

I retired from teaching college almost 20 years ago, but by then, American thinking had more or less already turned higher education into a transactional affair. Cheating wasn't just rampant, it was automatic! And why not? If a BA or BS is just a "union card" to get you work, what does it matter how you accomplish it? (I had various strategies to thwart cheaters. Lectures on morality were not among them!)

Articles on the quality of learning have been replaced in most publications with articles on how to get the best monetary return on your tuition dollar.

So I don't really blame the kids.

 

[Nova]

Sources: Bryan Kohberger made sexist remarks toward women

The sources, who wished to remain anonymous, said Kohberger talked down to female students and graded them unfairly.

www.newsnationnow.com

University of Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger was known for his rampant sexism among those he worked with and had a reputation for grading female students harsher than men, multiple sources told NewsNation’s Chris Cuomo.

The 28-year-old, who is accused of killing four college students, was studying criminology at Washington State University (WSU) where sources said he often made chauvinistic and condescending remarks toward women.

Kohberger allegedly told female colleagues that men were going to take their jobs because women aren’t as smart, according to someone associated with him at WSU.

Like I said, I haven't been a professor or a grad student for decades, but that kind of talk would have seen me or any of my male colleagues ousted.

I know there's been a rebellion against so-called "political correctness", but how in the heck did BK think he could talk like that and get away with it, especially on a university campus?

 

[maconrich]

DBM (TMI)

 

[jepop]

Sources: Bryan Kohberger made sexist remarks toward women

The sources, who wished to remain anonymous, said Kohberger talked down to female students and graded them unfairly.

www.newsnationnow.com

University of Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger was known for his rampant sexism among those he worked with and had a reputation for grading female students harsher than men, multiple sources told NewsNation’s Chris Cuomo.

The 28-year-old, who is accused of killing four college students, was studying criminology at Washington State University (WSU) where sources said he often made chauvinistic and condescending remarks toward women.

Kohberger allegedly told female colleagues that men were going to take their jobs because women aren’t as smart, according to someone associated with him at WSU.

FWIW, WSU did investigate claims of sexism against female students and although BK was fired for his continued "unprofessionalism" there was no wrong doing found over sexist grading of female students according to below. IDK if it's right or necessarily accurate for NN to report/summarise that he was known for his rampant sexism. Always grain of salt for me when it comes to NN and to read beyond the headline and between the lines. Separate general unsupported statements from what is actually known as fact. MOO

Bryan Kohberger's behavior toward women investigated week...

Some female students at Washington State University said that the 28-year-old murder suspect made them feel uncomfortable.

www.newsweek.com

"Citing anonymous individuals with knowledge of the situation, the Times reported that one female student accused Kohberger of following her while other female students said that the 28-year-old Ph.D. student made them feel uncomfortable. However, the newspaper reported that the investigation into his behavior toward women did not uncover any wrongdoing."

Sources: Bryan Kohberger made sexist remarks toward women

The sources, who wished to remain anonymous, said Kohberger talked down to female students and graded them unfairly.

www.newsnationnow.com

"He was ultimately fired from his teaching assistant role in December 2022, just one month after he allegedly killed four students in Moscow, Idaho. According to a termination letter obtained by NewsNation, Kohberger was dismissed after multiple altercations with a male professor and because he “had not made progress regarding professionalism.”
The letter made no mention of the allegations of misogynistic grading practices against Kohberger. "

Idaho Murders Update: WSU Investigated Kohberger's Behavior Around Female Students Before Arrest

Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger was terminated from his teaching assistant role by Washington State University on Dec. 19, 2022.

www.ibtimes.com

"But WSU did not find Kohberger guilty of any wrongdoings against his female students. The decision to eliminate his funding and terminate his role was reportedly based on his unsatisfactory performance as a teaching assistant.
The university had also reportedly based its decision to remove Kohberger from his teaching assistant role on failing to meet the "norms of professional behavior." Kohberger was officially terminated by WSU on Dec. 19, more than a week before he was arrested in his family home in Pennsylvania."

 

[Helechawagirl]

Maybe he did trip. We don’t know. Don’t think it matters much if he did or didn’t. Moo

Could that have been the thump?

 

[Helechawagirl]

I retired from teaching college almost 20 years ago, but by then, American thinking had more or less already turned higher education into a transactional affair. Cheating wasn't just rampant, it was automatic! And why not? If a BA or BS is just a "union card" to get you work, what does it matter how you accomplish it? (I had various strategies to thwart cheaters. Lectures on morality were not among them!)

Articles on the quality of learning have been replaced in most publications with articles on how to get the best monetary return on your tuition dollar.

So I don't really blame the kids.

College has become a business alike everything else. America has become the Ferangi empire…profit, profit, profit.

 

[Red Clover]

Sources: Bryan Kohberger made sexist remarks toward women

The sources, who wished to remain anonymous, said Kohberger talked down to female students and graded them unfairly.

www.newsnationnow.com

University of Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger was known for his rampant sexism among those he worked with and had a reputation for grading female students harsher than men, multiple sources told NewsNation’s Chris Cuomo.

The 28-year-old, who is accused of killing four college students, was studying criminology at Washington State University (WSU) where sources said he often made chauvinistic and condescending remarks toward women.

Kohberger allegedly told female colleagues that men were going to take their jobs because women aren’t as smart, according to someone associated with him at WSU.

A source also told Cuomo that one of Kohberger’s associates at WSU thought her home was broken into in the fall of 2022. That associate allegedly spoke to Kohberger about the break-in, who suggested a home security system. The source believes law enforcement investigated the matter but was not aware of their findings.

BBM
My questions: How many other suspected "burglaries" or break ins were happening in the fall off 2022 in the Pullman & Moscow area? Would a home security system at 1122 have deterred him?

He was also seen in Clarkston on 11/13. What was he all the way down there for? I'll be curious to see who all those ID's belong to. Are they his or was that what he collected given the opportunity?

 

[Red Clover]

Retired FBI profiler talks about possible motives behind the stabbings of Idaho college students

"https://abc11.com/video/embed/?pid=12638348"

Bryan Kohberger's former student describes abrupt behavior change after Idaho college murders

The criminology student said Kohberger's grading style took an abrupt turn after the murders took place.

abc11.com

 

[Helechawagirl]

I wonder if BK was really fired because of his TA issues or if the University knew that he was a suspect and cut him loose as a PR save? His grading obviously changed, although giving everyone A’s seems rather extreme and more like a FU than a thoughtful change? Just wondering.

 

[Boxer]

FWIW, WSU did investigate claims of sexism against female students and although BK was fired for his continued "unprofessionalism" there was no wrong doing found over sexist grading of female students according to below. IDK if it's right or necessarily accurate for NN to report/summarise that he was known for his rampant sexism. Always grain of salt for me when it comes to NN and to read beyond the headline and between the lines. Separate general unsupported statements from what is actually known as fact. MOO

Bryan Kohberger's behavior toward women investigated week...

Some female students at Washington State University said that the 28-year-old murder suspect made them feel uncomfortable.

www.newsweek.com

"Citing anonymous individuals with knowledge of the situation, the Times reported that one female student accused Kohberger of following her while other female students said that the 28-year-old Ph.D. student made them feel uncomfortable. However, the newspaper reported that the investigation into his behavior toward women did not uncover any wrongdoing."

Sources: Bryan Kohberger made sexist remarks toward women

The sources, who wished to remain anonymous, said Kohberger talked down to female students and graded them unfairly.

www.newsnationnow.com

"He was ultimately fired from his teaching assistant role in December 2022, just one month after he allegedly killed four students in Moscow, Idaho. According to a termination letter obtained by NewsNation, Kohberger was dismissed after multiple altercations with a male professor and because he “had not made progress regarding professionalism.”
The letter made no mention of the allegations of misogynistic grading practices against Kohberger. "

Idaho Murders Update: WSU Investigated Kohberger's Behavior Around Female Students Before Arrest

Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger was terminated from his teaching assistant role by Washington State University on Dec. 19, 2022.

www.ibtimes.com

"But WSU did not find Kohberger guilty of any wrongdoings against his female students. The decision to eliminate his funding and terminate his role was reportedly based on his unsatisfactory performance as a teaching assistant.
The university had also reportedly based its decision to remove Kohberger from his teaching assistant role on failing to meet the "norms of professional behavior." Kohberger was officially terminated by WSU on Dec. 19, more than a week before he was arrested in his family home in Pennsylvania."

His genearally aggressive behavior was noted by previous friends and peer students. MOO WSU HR prorecting school, went with least damaging way to remove him.