4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[NCWatcher]

Do you gave a copy of the syllabus?

There is a copy on the internet of the 2020 syllabus as well as an undated syllabus. They are on a "membership" site.

None of us know what the Fall 2022 syllabi for Snyder's courses said. But I think if the disgruntled students had been following a grading rubric on the syllabus or one otherwise provided by the professor, it would be logical to complain if the TA wasn't following that rubric. Students usually cling to syllabus language if it seems to support their position. Admittedly not that many students have spoken up but no one has said BK wasn't following published grading standards. They just said his standards were too high. So I do suspect there weren't published standards provided.
JMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I can’t think how altercations with the professor would be considered relevant, in court.

But I’d like to hear from an attorney. @PrairieWind ?

MOO

I don't know if prosecution bring up a person's general demeanour or history of recent incidents into such cases but *if* they do, maybe the 'unprofessional' interactions could be used as an example of him being a certain way - different than his usual self perhaps, or typical of his usual self? - maybe hostile / aggressive / menacing / abusive / violent even? Or maybe not. Just speculation.

I'm wondering what one could say or do in an interaction with one's superior that results in a warning then a second flagging up resulting in dismissal. I suspect average disagreement or argument wouldn't trigger such rapid and strong responses?

 

[U.N. Known]

As I said before:

Asking for clarification.
Explanation - as they obviously were not introduced to grading system if they felt bewildered by this person's marks.

Surely the students have the right to know why their work was graded the way it was?

That it came to this shows clearly that this person was not fit as TA.
University is for students not vice versa.

I will leave it at that as I have already written about the issue many times before.

JMO

As a matter of general explanation.
Most, if not all, college instructors/professors are required to provide grading criteria. My university requires that we include the criteria and rubrics on the syllabus.

Students are fully aware of the grading system. Many skim directions and don't use the provided rubric to check their work prior to submitting it. They are then "bewildered" when their grades are not as expected. If you haven't experienced it, you may be surprised at how often it happens.

Presumably, BK was following the rubric the professor developed. In that case, he likely followed it point-by-point as written. Whenever the person grading follows someone else's criteria, there will be less room for nuance. As I mentioned in an earlier post, as a new TA, it is more likely than not that he was going to be a "harder" grader than a seasoned professor; that phenomenon is a well-known fact in education circles.

Edited to add: While I find this particular topic of discussion interesting, I don't see the relevance of BK's grading policies or even his reportedly passive-aggressive manner of dealing with the way some students "ganged" up on him in class on his potential for murder. He isn't accused of murdering any of his students, the professor, or anyone else associtated with his university.

 

[Boxer]

I don't know if prosecution bring up a person's general demeanour or history of recent incidents into such cases but *if* they do, maybe the 'unprofessional' interactions could be used as an example of him being a certain way - different than his usual self perhaps, or typical of his usual self? - maybe hostile / aggressive / menacing / abusive / violent even? Or maybe not. Just speculation.

I'm wondering what one could say or do in an interaction with one's superior that results in a warning then a second flagging up resulting in dismissal. I suspect average disagreement or argument wouldn't trigger such rapid and strong responses?

Altercation is beyond an argument. Its usually public as well. The WSU professer was his boss. MOO, Professor likely lucky to be alive.

Strange that this is exactly the usage example of "altercation" from Merriam Webster:

"Altercation:
a noisy, heated, angry dispute.
He got into several altercations with his boss."
Merriam Webster

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

16 is prime age for a young man filled with testosterone and fantasies. Maybe seeing sis getting all the attention starring in a 'movie' also made him a bit jealous?

<snipped> Good Article from National Inst. Mental Health

1. Adolescence is an important time for brain development.​

Although the brain stops growing in size by early adolescence, the teen years are all about fine-tuning how the brain works. The brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s. The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions.

2. Brain development is related to social experiences during adolescence.​

Changes to the areas of the brain responsible for social processes can lead teens to focus more on peer relationships and social experiences. The emphasis on peer relationships, along with ongoing prefrontal cortex development, might lead teens to take more risks because the social benefits outweigh the possible consequences of a decision. These risks could be negative or dangerous, or they could be positive, such as talking to a new classmate or joining a new club or sport.

The Teen Brain: 7 Things to Know
JMO

That movie did not trigger him to become a murderer. It doesn't really work that way. Either BK had signs of antisocial behavior in childhood (elementary school aged) or he developed an illness that we don't know about (and teen/early adulthood is the right time for that, but I highly doubt this for a number of reasons) or he "snapped" and it was a crime of passion (again, doubt this) or he's just a narcissistic criminal. Given that we haven't heard about any antisocial behavior in childhood (killing animals, setting fires, beating classmates), my guess is on the narcissistic criminal option. If he was having thoughts of killing people in his teen years, the movie may have given him inspiration, the same way it would an author who wanted to write a novel about murder. But it didn't take a non-killer and make them a killer. The brain doesn't function like that.

For clarification: the link you cited is accurate. That is why teens engage in risky behavior. But there's a huge difference in risky behavior/ social relationships and criminal activity. Considering BK was 28 when he committed murder, I think it's a big stretch to suggest a movie his sister did when he was 16 caused him to murder 12 years later.

 

[Boxer]

That movie did not trigger him to become a murderer. It doesn't really work that way. Either BK had signs of antisocial behavior in childhood (elementary school aged) or he developed an illness that we don't know about (and teen/early adulthood is the right time for that, but I highly doubt this for a number of reasons) or he "snapped" and it was a crime of passion (again, doubt this) or he's just a narcissistic criminal. Given that we haven't heard about any antisocial behavior in childhood (killing animals, setting fires, beating classmates), my guess is on the narcissistic criminal option. If he was having thoughts of killing people in his teen years, the movie may have given him inspiration, the same way it would an author who wanted to write a novel about murder. But it didn't take a non-killer and make them a killer. The brain doesn't function like that.

Agree.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

^ Per my post above, 'narc collapse' can result in psychotic break. JMO MOO

Not in my experience. There seems to be a lot of confusion on what a psychotic break actually is. A psychotic break, in medical terms, isn't when someone "snaps." It's a psychotic disorder. Think schizophrenia or the like. Narcissistic injury doesn't cause schizophrenia. These days, thanks to social media it's been reduced to anyone who just dissociates, but this is not actually the clinical meaning of the term.

Could narcissistic injury due to his academic struggles cause someone to commit violence? Sure. Could they become obsessed with revenge? Sure. Could they blame people not responsible and even rage against whoever symbolically represents the target of their rage? Sure. But none of that is a psychotic break. There is no evidence at all that BK was psychotic, either at the time of the murders or even before the murders. In fact, I'd argue all the evidence we have thus far suggests he wasn't psychotic.

ETA: if someone already has a psychotic disorder, then narcissistic injury and stress can cause exacerbation or relapse, but we wouldn't refer to that as a psychotic "break." Psychotic break, medically, refers to the first episode of psychosis and it should meet clinical criteria for psychosis.

 

[10ofRods]

Not in my experience. There seems to be a lot of confusion on what a psychotic break actually is. A psychotic break, in medical terms, isn't when someone "snaps." It's a psychotic disorder. Think schizophrenia or the like. Narcissistic injury doesn't cause schizophrenia. These days, thanks to social media it's been reduced to anyone who just dissociates, but this is not actually the clinical meaning of the term.

Could narcissistic injury due to his academic struggles cause someone to commit violence? Sure. Could they become obsessed with revenge? Sure. Could they blame people not responsible and even rage against whoever symbolically represents the target of their rage? Sure. But none of that is a psychotic break. There is no evidence at all that BK was psychotic, either at the time of the murders or even before the murders. In fact, I'd argue all the evidence we have thus far suggests he wasn't psychotic.

How about Brief Reactive Psychosis?

Understanding Brief Psychotic Disorder

A Brief Psychotic Disorder can be due to the sudden death of a loved one, an accident, an assault, or a natural disaster.

www.webmd.com

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I can’t think how altercations with the professor would be considered relevant, in court.

But I’d like to hear from an attorney. @PrairieWind ?

MOO

Depends on the context of the altercations. Threats? Relevant, IMO. Used to prove he had a violent temper? Relevant, IMO. Used to suggest he was losing control? Relevant, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

That movie did not trigger him to become a murderer. It doesn't really work that way. Either BK had signs of antisocial behavior in childhood (elementary school aged) or he developed an illness that we don't know about (and teen/early adulthood is the right time for that, but I highly doubt this for a number of reasons) or he "snapped" and it was a crime of passion (again, doubt this) or he's just a narcissistic criminal. Given that we haven't heard about any antisocial behavior in childhood (killing animals, setting fires, beating classmates), my guess is on the narcissistic criminal option. If he was having thoughts of killing people in his teen years, the movie may have given him inspiration, the same way it would an author who wanted to write a novel about murder. But it didn't take a non-killer and make them a killer. The brain doesn't function like that.

For clarification: the link you cited is accurate. That is why teens engage in risky behavior. But there's a huge difference in risky behavior/ social relationships and criminal activity. Considering BK was 28 when he committed murder, I think it's a big stretch to suggest a movie his sister did when he was 16 caused him to murder 12 years later.

The movie could have sparked a twisted fantasy, I'm not saying that was the sole reason for his murderous spree. My point was we don't know if he had signs of antisocial behavior in his younger years, that has not been disclosed.

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Altercation is beyond an argument. Its usually public as well. The WSU professer was his boss. MOO, Professor likely lucky to be alive.

Strange that this is exactly the usage example of "altercation" from Merriam Webster:

"Altercation:
a noisy, heated, angry dispute.
He got into several altercations with his boss."
Merriam Webster

That's what I was thinking. Thanks for this info.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Why are we even discussing the mental status of the defendant? It isn't verified information that has been disclosed in MSM.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

How about Brief Reactive Psychosis?

Understanding Brief Psychotic Disorder

A Brief Psychotic Disorder can be due to the sudden death of a loved one, an accident, an assault, or a natural disaster.

www.webmd.com

No, IMO. I treat a lot of brief reactive psychosis on the inpatient unit. Usually, this is a total disconnect from reality based on severe trauma - rape victims, victims of DV after an acute incident, etc. These are not people who are in trouble at work.

Further, I don't believe there is any indication nor do I think it's realistic to believe that BK was psychotic when he (allegedly) killed 4 people in 15 minutes.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Why are we even discussing the mental status of the defendant? It isn't verified information that has been disclosed in MSM.

People have been trying to pin it on a psychotic break since day one and I think those claims should be put to rest.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Not in my experience. There seems to be a lot of confusion on what a psychotic break actually is. A psychotic break, in medical terms, isn't when someone "snaps." It's a psychotic disorder. Think schizophrenia or the like. Narcissistic injury doesn't cause schizophrenia. These days, thanks to social media it's been reduced to anyone who just dissociates, but this is not actually the clinical meaning of the term.

Could narcissistic injury due to his academic struggles cause someone to commit violence? Sure. Could they become obsessed with revenge? Sure. Could they blame people not responsible and even rage against whoever symbolically represents the target of their rage? Sure. But none of that is a psychotic break. There is no evidence at all that BK was psychotic, either at the time of the murders or even before the murders. In fact, I'd argue all the evidence we have thus far suggests he wasn't psychotic.

ETA: if someone already has a psychotic disorder, then narcissistic injury and stress can cause exacerbation or relapse, but we wouldn't refer to that as a psychotic "break." Psychotic break, medically, refers to the first episode of psychosis and it should meet clinical criteria for psychosis.

I agree narc injury doesn't cause psychosis but narc collapse can do. That is when the entire structure one has built one's self self esteem and identity around and whole belief system about how things work suddenly falls away.

I am unfortunately very well aware of what psychosis and schizophrenia are, not through my own first hand experience but that of someone very close to me, slowly creeping into mania and florid psychosis many many times.

I guess we'd need to know a whole lot more about what he was thinking and feeling. Will BK be subject to a mandatory psychiatric evaluation and report for the court?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The movie could have sparked a twisted fantasy, I'm not saying that was the sole reason for his murderous spree. My point was we don't know if he had signs of antisocial behavior in his younger years, that has not been disclosed.

MOO

IMO, if he was setting fires and killing kittens at age 8, we'd know by now.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Why are we even discussing the mental status of the defendant? It isn't verified information that has been disclosed in MSM.

Can't speak for others but I was discussing it in relation to the reports of BK being in conflict with his work superior and having lost his TA job. However, if this is out of bounds and not appropriate, please let me know and I will try to delete / edit my comments, thank you.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

IMO, if he was setting fires and killing kittens at age 8, we'd know by now.

Would it come out in court if he was? I suppose he *might* have been known for doing weird stuff, would anyone remember aside from his close family members and if they did, would they have been telling stories to news sites or keeping quiet?

 

[girlhasnoname]

People have been trying to pin it on a psychotic break since day one and I think those claims should be put to rest.

I agree, but I think it's against TOS rules here on WS.

 

[Sundog]

I don't know how much BF could add to the State's case other than what time they got home, any texts, and what happened upon waking up.

I'm pretty sure if they are going to use DM's testimony (which is key in placing BK inside the home at that time) she will have to take the stand, maybe they will not show her face, but honestly, it's unfortunately been blasted all over the internet.

It will traumatic for her, but perhaps she will be willing to speak on behalf of her murdered friends and as a survivor rather than victim of BK's. Both girls got matching tattoos of the murdered friends initials with angel wings.

I wish those 2 young ladies nothing but the best thoughts and hopes for the future with good therapy and family support.

MOO

BF may also be called as a witness regarding what happened in the morning, once the two surviving students woke up and moved around the house.