4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

[Cool Cats]

Because our laws are designed with presumption of innocence of each individual charge, meaning that even if he did kill them, it doesn't mean he stalked them and even if he did stalk them, it doesn't mean he killed them. It also means that even if he did both, it doesn't mean he stalked them on this particular night. When there are at least 3 other plausible explanations for why he was in the area that night, I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that it must have been for nefarious reasons, especially as it has yet to be proven that he even knew of the existence of the house or the occupants by August 21st.



He was also capable of going to the grocery store, so why would I assume he must have been at the King Rd house instead of doing that very ordinary task?



The defense doesn't have to. Under our judicial system, the burden of proof lies on the prosecution. Can they prove it? Maybe. But we're not privy to that information yet, so I'm not going to assume it.



I mean, everyone had the opportunity to. IMO, the stalking charge will be separated from the murder charge and proving that he was around and had "opportunity" will not get them a guilty verdict on that.




He was stopped on the intersection by a Walmart, a 24-hr grocery store, and an ATM, all of which were much closer to him than the King Rd house.

MOO

I don't ignore circumstantial evidence. Everything I posted the jury can consider as circumstantial evidence.

We can all dispute the evidence just piece by piece. Juries put all the evidence together.

The jury can weigh all sides of it. It is the TOTALITY of the evidence. It adds up. Each fact in the PCA adds up to a bigger picture. Easy to dispute evidence by itself, but not all together. Defendants are convicted by evidence adding up.

2 Cents

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

According to the FBI expert BK's car fits the suspect vehicle on the video, which is all that matters.

What is on the video is permanently on the video and can't be changed into a different car.

The FBI expert can show the jury those video photos of the suspect car and explain how it matches Bryan's car. Pretty simple, it matches or it doesn't.

If BK's car did not match the suspect car I doubt his attorneys would wait 6 months for his preliminary hearing.

But the car BK drove is so similar to a 2011-2013 model that even the FBI forensic expert inaccurately deduced it was a 2011-2013, per the PCA.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Your ignoring circumstantial evidence. Everything I posted the jury can consider as circumstantial evidence.

I'm not ignoring circumstantial evidence. I'm considering it and saying I think it's weak. That's not the same as ignoring it.

 

[Sundog]

Thank you. Now I wonder what they were after in late January? I read through it again and noticed there was a zoom hearing Feb 10 after which Judge Marshalls reasons changed to just right to a fair trial (signed 3/7/2023). Did you notice that before or was that added?
MOO
edit corrected date

It looks like it was directed to the Office of the Registrar at WSU. So could be about when BK was no longer registered as a student, or about his grades in the fall semester, or other issues that would be under the responsibilities of the Registrar.

 

[ArianeEmory]

The jury can weigh all sides of it. It is the TOTALITY of the evidence.

This.

I’m reminded of people attempting to explain away Dellen Millard’s tattoos. Of course, LE had far more than his tattoos. (Spoiler: he was convicted.)

It’s going to be a long wait.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Thank you. Now I wonder what they were after in late January? I read through it again and noticed there was a zoom hearing Feb 10 after which Judge Marshalls reasons changed to just right to a fair trial (signed 3/7/2023). Did you notice that before or was that added?
MOO
edit corrected date

I found it back in #77:
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20-%20Washington%20State%20University.pdf

Dropbox anonymous and warrant dated 1.25.2023
BK Tinder 6.1.2022. Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox)
BK Yik Yak 6.1.2022 (edited to add). Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox)

I have always believed dropbox was linked to the other two warrants but I assumed and missed the first step. I hate it when that happens This is potentially something / someone at WSU supplied a key to previously unknown stuff.

Of course, this is IMO what potentially could be linked, but it would make sense because Dropbox, Tinder, YikYak all came out of seemingly nowhere and there'd be no obvious reason to completely seal a warrant for WSU. Redact yes, seal - not so much - unless it contained something meaningful imo.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

It looks like it was directed to the Office of the Registrar at WSU. So could be about when BK was no longer registered as a student, or about his grades in the fall semester, or other issues that would be under the responsibilities of the Registrar.

But why completely seal the warrant and affidavit? Why not just seal the affidavit and redact the warrant as they did on so many others? IDK but I think it's something more sensitive esp since the grades and other records would be about BK and they left his name on everything else.

 

[gremlin444]

I would also think that if LE had BARD, they wouldn't have needed to call in two AGs for the case. Seems to me there's a lot more work ahead jmo

Bill Thompson requesting assistance of two Deputy Attorney Generals was discussed by The Prosecutors Podcast. Both hosts agreed that it was not an unusual action, especially given the complexity of the case and the large amount of victims--and therefore the large amount of evidence and depositions to manage. They remarked that given how small the staff size would be for the Latah County's prosecutor's office and the fact that that office will also be handling other cases at the same time, bringing in outside help was pretty much a given.

You bring them in now because you are confident that the end result of the probable cause hearing will be support the case and allow the case to go to trial. And a full trial will definitely require a large team, so you want them on the team well before the trial so that you have continuity and can all work on trial prep and strategizing together instead of bringing in key supports much later in the trial prep process.

A defense attorney, Jessica Bublitz, spoke about this for NewsNation and agreed:

"Jessica Bublitz said during a Tuesday appearance on NewsNation’s “Banfield.” “You have to realize, the preliminary hearing is the beginning. That’s where they find probable cause. After that is probably where he (Kohberger) would plead guilty or not guilty.

“We’re still at the very early stages, and it doesn’t really signify anything to me; other than, this would be a good time to bring in some additional resources,” Bublitz added."

2 attorneys added to case against Bryan Kohberger

Deputy Attorneys General Jeff Nye and Ingrid Batey will assist local county prosecutor Bill Thompson in the high-profile case.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[schooling]

I found it back in #77:
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20-%20Washington%20State%20University.pdf

Dropbox anonymous and warrant dated 1.25.2023
BK Tinder 6.1.2022. Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox)
BK Yik Yak 6.1.2022 (edited to add). Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox)

I have always believed dropbox was linked to the other two warrants but I assumed and missed the first step. I hate it when that happens This is potentially something / someone at WSU supplied a key to previously unknown stuff.

Of course, this is IMO what potentially could be linked, but it would make sense because Dropbox, Tinder, YikYak all came out of seemingly nowhere and there'd be no obvious reason to completely seal a warrant for WSU. Redact yes, seal - not so much - unless it contained something meaningful imo.

I think it would be worthy to look up what each respective app requires for cooperation with LE (if I get a second I'll do it). Some companies give up all the goods with a tersely written letter and/or probable cause that rises above the threshold set by their lawyers. Other companies, like Reddit, tend to lean more towards 'protect the user's privacy' and have two different levels of cooperation.

A LE request sent via letter that cites probable cause will get you very basic information (login dates, count of posts etc) specific to the named account and only the named account Anything more (detailed post history and contents, alt usernames) requires a warrant. Reddit also has a data retention policy in which after a certain amount of days a deleted account and/or data can not be retrieved.

Guidelines for Law Enforcement

Guidelines for Law Enforcement - Reddit

www.redditinc.com

Note: my message is from memory. I have not visited the link above in months and it may have changed.

In Reddit's case we're likely not seeing more warrants because the information they got back from the letter likely led them to believe they didn't need to dig deeper into anyone beyond Kaylee (unless we haven't seen those warrants yet).

 

[Helechawagirl]

That would be great as it would be found eventually.
Unfortunately the Snake River is close to his return route.

Grocery stores turn over their inventory every 3 days so it would not be a good place to dispose of a weapon. JMO

 

[schooling]

That would be great as it would be found eventually.
Unfortunately the Snake River is close to his return route.

If I'm not mistaken, doesn't one of the likely paths lead over or close to a bridge?

 

[schooling]

Match (Tinder Parent Company)

We partner with law enforcement​

We pride ourselves on our support to and cooperation with law enforcement. We stand ready to assist in any active investigations and have developed a law enforcement portal to facilitate access to data for investigative purposes.

We also work with law enforcement proactively to report things like potential violence, self-harm, and other imminent physical harm. In each instance, we work collaboratively with law enforcement to get them what they need without objections or delay.

Worth Noting that the above is within the context of sexual assaults - Safety

Tinder, Specifically

We are constantly evaluating and refining our processes, and will always work with law enforcement, where possible, to protect our users.

Safety And Policy

With 43 billion matches to date, Tinder® is the world’s most popular dating app, making it the place to meet new people.

policies.tinder.com

If you're a law enforcement official and need to get in contact with our team, please email [email protected].

Note: We will not respond to emails sent to the address above by non-law enforcement officials.

https://www.help.tinder.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003957566-Information-for-law-enforcement

Other Situations. We may disclose your information, including personal information:

In response to a subpoena or similar investigative demand, a court order, or a request for cooperation from a law enforcement or other government agency; to establish or exercise our legal rights; to defend against legal claims; or as otherwise required by law. In such cases, we may raise or waive any legal objection or right available to us.

When we believe disclosure is appropriate in connection with efforts to investigate, prevent, or take other action regarding illegal activity, suspected fraud or other wrongdoing; to protect and defend the rights, property or safety of our company, our users, our employees, or others; to comply with applicable law or cooperate with law enforcement; or to enforce our Terms of Use or other agreements or policies.

In connection with a substantial corporate transaction, such as the sale of our business, a divestiture, merger, consolidation, or asset sale, or in the unlikely event of bankruptcy.

Privacy 2017 10 26

With 43 billion matches to date, Tinder® is the world’s most popular dating app, making it the place to meet new people.

policies.tinder.com

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Bill Thompson requesting assistance of two Deputy Attorney Generals was discussed by The Prosecutors Podcast. Both hosts agreed that it was not an unusual action, especially given the complexity of the case and the large amount of victims--and therefore the large amount of evidence and depositions to manage. They remarked that given how small the staff size would be for the Latah County's prosecutor's office and the fact that that office will also be handling other cases at the same time, bringing in outside help was pretty much a given.

You bring them in now because you are confident that the end result of the probable cause hearing will be support the case and allow the case to go to trial. And a full trial will definitely require a large team, so you want them on the team well before the trial so that you have continuity and can all work on trial prep and strategizing together instead of bringing in key supports much later in the trial prep process.

A defense attorney, Jessica Bublitz, spoke about this for NewsNation and agreed:

"Jessica Bublitz said during a Tuesday appearance on NewsNation’s “Banfield.” “You have to realize, the preliminary hearing is the beginning. That’s where they find probable cause. After that is probably where he (Kohberger) would plead guilty or not guilty.

“We’re still at the very early stages, and it doesn’t really signify anything to me; other than, this would be a good time to bring in some additional resources,” Bublitz added."

2 attorneys added to case against Bryan Kohberger

Deputy Attorneys General Jeff Nye and Ingrid Batey will assist local county prosecutor Bill Thompson in the high-profile case.

www.newsnationnow.com

I've heard other opinions as well. But they may be right. Or not. I think it tells us that there's a lot of work ahead, so while not unusual, certainly wouldn't be needed if this was going to be an obvious slam dunk or plea deal imo.

 

[schooling]

YikYak's Law Enforcement Policy is pretty detailled..

Law Enforcement Request Help Document (with Link to Form for Requests which looks pretty standard)

https://yikyak.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/9520531319443-Law-Enforcement-Requests

Law Enforcement Cooperation Guidelines

Yik Yak - Guidelines for Law Enforcement | Notion

Updated March 29, 2023

yikyak.notion.site

Edit: Apparently an App called 'Sidechat' (never heard of it) uses the same intake form as YikYak so I'm assuming that it's a sister app.

Sidechat

www.sidechat.lol

 

[whiterhino]

RSBBM (not sure how I quoted @ twice but not attempting to edit again)

Perhaps it should be stated that what you're referring to is called plausible deniability (as you said below). FWIW.

When there are at least 3 other plausible explanations for why he was in the area that night, I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that it must have been for nefarious reasons, especially as it has yet to be proven that he even knew of the existence of the house or the occupants by August 21st.

He was stopped on the intersection by a Walmart, a 24-hr grocery store, and an ATM, all of which were much closer to him than the King Rd house.

MOO

 

[Lava Lamp]

Not true at all, in my experience. My local Walmart closes, but my supermarket is 24 hours as is CVS as is a 24-hour diner in town as is McDonald's. And like I said, ATMs don't close usually.



BBM. If that were true, we wouldn't see so many wrongful arrest lawsuits or people exonerated years or decades after they were found guilty.

You forgot this part of my post “we know LE has thousands of pages of more evidence we don’t know about yet and won’t know till June.”

The whole of the evidence we haven’t seen will be what they use at trial. They probably won’t even mention the PCA again. And when they talk about this traffic stop, they will have video, GPS, etc and much more info. So taking one detail out of the entire context and saying that proves doubt doesn’t fly really. IMO

Also, LE being wrong about BK in this high profile of a case in 2023 with the technology they have such as GPS, DNA, digital forensics from social media etc isn’t probable or comparable to cases of the past, IMO.

 

[schooling]

This post is not meant to be snarky not is it aimed at anyone directly. I'll often put myself in other people's shoes and might adjust a scenario to better help me empathize.

If this was a infidelity investigation. And an investigators brought me the evidence prosecutors have against BK. I'd be contacting divorce attorneys right now.

I'd give him a chance to explain, sure. But after the 3rd response of 'it's a coincidence' the conversation would be over. It reminds me of the Shaggy song 'It Wasn't Me'

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

You forgot this part of my post “we know LE has thousands of pages of more evidence we don’t know about yet and won’t know till June.”

I didn't forget it. I just chose not to comment on it because we have no idea how many thousands of pages the defense has. That's the thing -- we can talk all day about the prosecution only because the defense hasn't made its case yet.

The whole of the evidence we haven’t seen will be what they use at trial. They probably won’t even mention the PCA again. And when they talk about this traffic stop, they will have video, GPS, etc and much more info. So taking one detail out of the entire context and saying that proves doubt doesn’t fly really. IMO

What one detail and what doubt? The discussion was about the traffic stop. Being stopped 1.7 miles away from the house is pretty important, IMO, based on what we know now.

Also, LE being wrong about BK in this high profile of a case in 2023 with the technology they have such as GPS, DNA, digital forensics from social media etc isn’t probable or comparable to cases of the past, IMO.

Of course it is. I certainly don't believe that every person behind bars is guilty, even in 2023. LE can definitely be wrong, regardless of technology. Are they wrong in this case? I have no idea. I think BK is definitely guilty of something, whether it's premeditated murder, manslaughter, stalking, accessory, or a combination of all of the above, I have no clue. None of us do. But I'm commenting on the evidence we know about right now without assuming there's this incredibly strong case behind the curtain we just haven't seen yet. I'm also open to BK being guilty of some charges and not all. I don't go for the black-and-white thinking I've seen in the MSM and on social media that if he did it, then everything must be true and all his actions are suspect.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

This post is not meant to be snarky not is it aimed at anyone directly. I'll often put myself in other people's shoes and might adjust a scenario to better help me empathize.

If this was a infidelity investigation. And an investigators brought me the evidence prosecutors have against BK. I'd be contacting divorce attorneys right now.

I'd give him a chance to explain, sure. But after the 3rd response of 'it's a coincidence' the conversation would be over. It reminds me of the Shaggy song 'It Wasn't Me'

I don't think infidelity is at all the same. People leave relationships just based on a hint of their partner being unfaithful, but no one goes to prison and no one dies. If they're wrong? It sucks, but life goes on. Murder charges are a whole different thing and if you get the wrong guy (or the right guy who's erroneously charged with the wrong thing), there are far-reaching ramifications that affect not only that person, but the victims' families and society at large. There's a reason we ask for unanimous verdicts to convict. There's a lot at stake and two people can interpret the same exact evidence differently.

MOO.

 

[jepop]

Personally, at 1.7 miles away, I'd call it a stretch of a nexus, but it worked for the purposes of the PCA. 1.7 miles away sounds pretty close, until the fact that Moscow is approximately 3 x 5 miles of a town pops into the convo. Then it's a little less compelling because it's basically halfway across town. If I were the defense, I'd do that math. Add to that, the shopping centers are much, much closer than the King Road house, and I think that when those facts are considered, that particular piece of PCA is 'a stretch'. That's jmo and looking at it from the objective perspective.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article271694187.html#storylink=cpy

Aug 21 was one on the twelve occasions BK's phone used the same cellular resources as those used by the King Road residence. But the PCA does not state that BK's phone was using those same cellular resources (ie Pinging of towers that are used by King Road) when he was pulled over for that traffice stop at c 11.37pm corner of Farm Road and Pullman Highway. So we don't know the range of distance yet and 1.7 miles is incorrect or certainly not validated at this point in time. At the time BK was pulled over he was 1.7 miles from King Road, but at that time he was not utilising the cellular resources that are utilised by the King Road residence. MOO

P18 of docs related to Washington Serach Warrant. Quote is from PCA attached to search warrant docs.
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search%20warrant%20for%20bryan%20kohberger%20apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf

"One of these occasions , on August 21, 2022 , the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources
providing coverage to the King Road Residence from approximately 10:34 p.m. to 11:35 p.m. Atapproximately 11:37 p.m., Kohberger was stopped by Latah County Sheriff's Deputy CorporaDuke , as mentioned above . The 8548 Phone was utilizing cellular resources consistent with thelocation ofthe traffic stop during this time (Farm Road and Pullman Highway)" (emphasis mine).