4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

[Deleted member 718]

But the car BK drove is so similar to a 2011-2013 model that even the FBI forensic expert inaccurately deduced it was a 2011-2013, per the PCA.

Maybe the video isn't clear enough to tell the difference.

 

[jepop]

Maybe the video isn't clear enough to tell the difference.

That makes the most sense to me. The specialists did the job they were asked to do and in the absence of knowing anything against them, they did it well IMO. The videos were clear enough for a specialist with all the resources that he/she needed available to them to identify make, model, colour, approximate year range and in some of the footage (depending on angle I would guess) that the front number plate was missing.MOO. If the specialist could have read a number plate he/she would have.MOO Not one of us, as far as I know, is in a position to know what quality of footage the specialist was dealing with, but they did identify a suspect vehicle that was consistent across mutiple sites on the night, approaching the King Road residence from the east (Indian Hills drive and Styner Ave) at c3.26 - 3.28 am and then doing 3x passes of the King Road residence between c.3.29am and 4.04am. On the fourth occasion the suspect vehicle enters Queen Street it does not leave untilc 4.20am. The defendant's vehicle is consistent with the description, the defendant's vehicle was south of Moscow at 4.48am, the defendants vehicle was caught on multiple video cameras from approx 5.25-5.30am on Johnson road, Bishop Rd and NE Stadium Way Pullman heading towards Steptoe Appartments. The defendant's vehicle was caught on video heading south in a direction consistent with leaving Pullman at approx 2.53am. The defendant's phone was pinging of towers utilised by King Road at approx 9am Nov 13th for about 10 minutes before returning to Steptoe appartments.

All above time details and missing number plate ref are from PCA.

And there is much we don't know yet. I believe LE have discovered everything there is to know about other vehicles that entered Queen St during the relative times, and also tracked down and alibied any number of white elantra drivers that they may have identified as POIs or possible POIs. LE made a public statement for a white elantra driver in the vicinity of the King Road residence early hours of Nov 13th to come forward and yes, I am assuming that no-one did come forward. I cannot see why due diligence would not have been employed.MOO

Edited spelling

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm not ignoring circumstantial evidence. I'm considering it and saying I think it's weak. That's not the same as ignoring it.

I accidentally wrote that post wrong and went back and edited it.

My edited post says I do not ignore circumstantial evidence - not you - me. It is not my place to tell posters how they think, I do not think you ignore circumstantial evidence.

I actually agree with you. The circumstantial evidence of BK's phone pinging on the King Rd cell tower is weak evidence.

Probably 1/2 the phones in Moscow ping off that tower. It just shows that BK had the opportunity to go to King Rd.

I'm not even sure if this will come up in the preliminary hearing. If it does, all the defense has to do is show BK was going to some late night bars, something open in the early morning hours because early morning is somewhat suspicious.

For early morning I think of 1:00am 2:00am 3:00am. Bars can be open to 2:00am but I would have to research it for the Moscow area. If BK was with friends that would be very helpful for him. A bit odd if he was never once in Moscow with even one friend to vouch for him. Normally people go "out on the town" with friends or a date etc...

 

[al66pine]

Two AG's?

I would also think that if LE had BARD, they wouldn't have needed to call in two AGs for the case. Seems to me there's a lot more work ahead jmo

@Sister Golden Hair
People are responding.
I'm puzzled about posts responding to ^ (giving reason for two PDs),
and I see your ref to two AGs as deputy atty's general.

Anyway, imo, ALL that evd. triggers need for extra support.
Seems even the June hearing will be unusually long.
And the trial? Holy cow. Only one pros. atty? Nope.

Sorry if already noted, discussed.
________________________
* "Latah County Prosecuting Attorney."*

Prosecuting Attorney

Latah County is located in the northern Idaho panhandle; to the immediate west lies Whitman County, Washington. These counties are referred to as The Palouse, which produces a large share of the wheat, lentils, peas, oats and barley in the United States. The Palouse is home to two major...

latahcountyid.gov

** tweet w pdf of Bill Thompson petition to court re apptmt of 2 Special Asst. Atty's Gen. for this case. Also ct order granting.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1650974241993441282

 

[Nila Aella]

Library is open until 2 AM early on a Monday morning? Wow.

And lots of parties on a Sunday night? I guess that's how some university communities roll.

Small university towns I've lived in have had local ordinances about Sundays (Moscow is known to be way more conservative in these matters, IMO, than Pullman).

But sure, some hearty souls could stay up late for their own reasons on a school night. Appears that it did not improve BK's temperament vis-à-vis his students. It really is amazing he could keep such late hours and be...personable and well-prepared for his teaching duties (if he was, ever).

This is all speculation, and we're not going to know much until end of June.

IMO.

Semester Hours​

August 22 - December 16, January 9 - May 12

Monday - Thursday	6:00am - 2:00am
Friday	6:00am - 8:00pm
Saturday	12:00pm - 6:00pm
Sunday	12:00pm - 2:00am

Summer Hours​

May 15 - August 21

Monday - Friday	8:00am - 8:00pm
Saturday	Closed
Sunday	12:00pm - 8:00pm

Hours

As Idaho's flagship research library, the University of Idaho Library connects our users with information, ideas, tools, and spaces; enriches formal and informal learning opportunities; supports and advances research, scholarly, and creative activity; builds partnerships through regional and...

www.lib.uidaho.edu

Yes, the library is open until 2AM Monday morning during the semester.

Club hours of the one prominent club in this case:
Our place is open from 10 am to 2 am through the week

Corner Club

14 Draft Beer, Free Shuffleboard, Smoking Porches, & More

moscowcornerclub.com

IMO Students find all sorts of reasons/places/times to congegate and socialize.

 

[Nila Aella]

There is also this in the PCA:

View attachment 419423

I vaguely recalled that MPD requested agencies to lookout for elantras, so I went back to the PCA to check if they mentioned years in that request:

On Nov 25th MPD requested law enforcement agencies to be on the look out for white elantras in the area.
No year given in the PCA description of that request.
Four days later a WSU PO queried white elantras at WSU and found a 2015.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf

JMO

What I was trying to do was see if there was any other mention of model years. I thought maybe the request to the other agencies would have specified the year, to deduce WHEN the model years expanded. But it didn't note the years on the request made on Nov 25th (in the PCA).

The police were aware that BK was a suspect by 11/29.
They issued the appeal for a 2011-13 Elantra on 12/7.
Sounds like they wanted to see
If they could get info without specifically targeting BK.

This! Very Interesting.
Timing causes many questions to swirl:
Did they still believe it was a 2011-13 on 12/7?
Was there a suspect vehicle 2?
Were they trying to make sure there wasn't another elantra in the area before focusing on BKs?
Did the expansion of models take place after 12/7?
Haven't really thought it through yet, just find the timing brings up some questions. MOO

 

[NCWatcher]

Semester Hours​

August 22 - December 16, January 9 - May 12

Monday - Thursday	6:00am - 2:00am
Friday	6:00am - 8:00pm
Saturday	12:00pm - 6:00pm
Sunday	12:00pm - 2:00am

Summer Hours​

May 15 - August 21

Monday - Friday	8:00am - 8:00pm
Saturday	Closed
Sunday	12:00pm - 8:00pm

Hours

As Idaho's flagship research library, the University of Idaho Library connects our users with information, ideas, tools, and spaces; enriches formal and informal learning opportunities; supports and advances research, scholarly, and creative activity; builds partnerships through regional and...

www.lib.uidaho.edu

Yes, the library is open until 2AM Monday morning during the semester.

Club hours of the one prominent club in this case:
Our place is open from 10 am to 2 am through the week

Corner Club

14 Draft Beer, Free Shuffleboard, Smoking Porches, & More

moscowcornerclub.com

IMO Students find all sorts of reasons/places/times to congegate and socialize.

That sounds much more like university towns I know. I've mostly lived in the south and parts of the country (like Idaho) could be more conservative than the southern US, I suppose. But in towns I've lived in with universities I've never known Sunday nights to be terribly quiet. Quieter than Thurs, Fri, and Sat nights, for sure, but hardly quiet. I've also lived in towns where the main undergraduate library and certain computer labs were open 24/7. That was pre-Covid and it may not be that way now. But it doesn't surprise me at all that places would be open and for BK to be out and about after 11pm on a "school night." And I doubt he was the only one.
JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

It looks like it was directed to the Office of the Registrar at WSU. So could be about when BK was no longer registered as a student, or about his grades in the fall semester, or other issues that would be under the responsibilities of the Registrar.

But why completely seal the warrant and affidavit? Why not just seal the affidavit and redact the warrant as they did on so many others? IDK but I think it's something more sensitive esp since the grades and other records would be about BK and they left his name on everything else.

I was thinking something sensitive too and something that would be related to the defendant getting a fair trial. JMO
Maybe it is about the altercations with the professor? Why he was let go from his TA position? Or the student complaints?
MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

I believe those warrants are linked. I'll see if I can find my original info.

Yes, I did notice. Judge Marshall sealed it the first time for all the reasons in the motion which cited the statute and then cited ICAR 32(i)(2) in the final. Those are two different things. Without knowing more, I would not want to assume anything more than just what is there. All we know is that there was a discussion and she kept it sealed for that reason.

Editing to add: I broke down the others for why they were sealed, and based on those that were fully sealed, there were more reasons. Because this one was for WSU, perhaps it didn't actually contain the personal/sensitive/risky information that the others did, but she still kept it sealed for fair trial. My curiosity wonders which of the attorneys wanted it unsealed -- that to me is the much more interesting piece. What do you think?

I did not realize that the court was engaging motions and providing additional extensions in the original post of the warrant!

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20-%20Washington%20State%20University.pdf

How do you keep up with it all?
Thank you for all the work on these warrants, and for sharing!

I found it back in #77:
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20-%20Washington%20State%20University.pdf

Dropbox anonymous and warrant dated 1.25.2023
BK Tinder 6.1.2022. Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox)
BK Yik Yak 6.1.2022 (edited to add). Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox)

I have always believed dropbox was linked to the other two warrants but I assumed and missed the first step. I hate it when that happens This is potentially something / someone at WSU supplied a key to previously unknown stuff.

Of course, this is IMO what potentially could be linked, but it would make sense because Dropbox, Tinder, YikYak all came out of seemingly nowhere and there'd be no obvious reason to completely seal a warrant for WSU. Redact yes, seal - not so much - unless it contained something meaningful imo.

I have been bookmarking and following your search warrant analysis and connections since the beginning. I have to admit that after a time, my brain locks and gets all muddled, so I have to proceed with small doses at a time. I don't have a clear overall picture yet, but I am working on it. MOO

 

[schooling]

IMO the Elantra stuff is going to be pretty clear cut once this goes to trial.

• If the video is too blurry to tell. The jury will be able to visually see that.
• If the car in the video clearly lacks the features of a 2015. The jury will be able to see that.
• If the car in the video contains features of the 2015. The jury will be able to see that.

IMO, I have a hard time believing prosecutors build an entire case off of bullet point #2.

The alternatives are bullet #1 which is still pretty solid circumstantial evidence and bullet #3 which is practically a smoking gun.

We know he didn’t have a front plate. But I believe that the blue color band and the top of the PA license plate and the yellow band at the bottom will surely play a role.

MOO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Two AG's?

@Sister Golden Hair
People are responding.
I'm puzzled about posts responding to ^ (giving reason for two PDs),
and I see your ref to two AGs as deputy atty's general.

Anyway, imo, ALL that evd. triggers need for extra support.
Seems even the June hearing will be unusually long.
And the trial? Holy cow. Only one pros. atty? Nope.

Sorry if already noted, discussed.
________________________
* "Latah County Prosecuting Attorney."*

Prosecuting Attorney

Latah County is located in the northern Idaho panhandle; to the immediate west lies Whitman County, Washington. These counties are referred to as The Palouse, which produces a large share of the wheat, lentils, peas, oats and barley in the United States. The Palouse is home to two major...

latahcountyid.gov

** tweet w pdf of Bill Thompson petition to court re apptmt of 2 Special Asst. Atty's Gen. for this case. Also ct order granting.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1650974241993441282

I'm sorry, I don't understand the question. All I said was that two added was a sign - imo - that this was expected to be a long process, complicated, not a slam dunk, and not a plea deal. And yes, I should have written two Assistant Attorneys General (or Deputy? IDR), but I didn't (I guess I should have written AsG, but that would be even more confusing) It's jmo what it means to add them. I've heard both sides. When posters roll up and say it's a done deal or BK will do a plea deal, I disagree. No more complicated than that. I don't think it's unusual or unreasonable that two more or added, but I just think it's an indicator.

 

[Montecore1]

I don't think infidelity is at all the same. People leave relationships just based on a hint of their partner being unfaithful, but no one goes to prison and no one dies. If they're wrong? It sucks, but life goes on. Murder charges are a whole different thing and if you get the wrong guy (or the right guy who's erroneously charged with the wrong thing), there are far-reaching ramifications that affect not only that person, but the victims' families and society at large. There's a reason we ask for unanimous verdicts to convict. There's a lot at stake and two people can interpret the same exact evidence differently.

MOO.

Very well said...I would add also that if someone is wrongfully convicted the person(s) that did are still free to do it again. IMO

IMO, I have a hard time believing prosecutors build an entire case off of bullet point #2.

You very well maybe right about the videos etc, but I dont think anyone here was suggesting that the Defense was going to build their entire case on the Elantra miss info. At least for me and the way I read the other posts the Elantra situation was just the subject of that one discussion. MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Maybe the video isn't clear enough to tell the difference.

Excellent point, and if that's the case, that's an argument in favor of the defense, IMO.

 

[Sundog]

I was thinking something sensitive too and something that would be related to the defendant getting a fair trial. JMO
Maybe it is about the altercations with the professor? Why he was let go from his TA position? Or the student complaints?
MOO

But why would it be directed to the Office of the Registrar? None of this is within the scope of their responsibilities. There would be no need for the Registrar to know these details. S/he he would only know of these kinds of details if there was gossip or speaking out of turn due to FERPA, so would not be able to respond to the request with any official statements about these issues.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Excellent point, and if that's the case, that's an argument in favor of the defense, IMO.

Apparently there are multiple videos, including the one of the three-point turn, so seems like with all those angles and all that technology, it seems like they'd be able to zero in. IDK and ICBW. I still find it a point of interest.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Re the Office of the Registrar

Here is what is there: Contact the Office of the Registrar | University of Idaho

One of the things that happens at the Office of the Registrar

IT & Data Reporting​

Because the Dropbox, TikTok and YikYak warrants all happened at the same time, one possible scenario is that WSU IT & Data Reporting did their own forensic data deep-dive investigation. A few threads ago, I raised this, and I think it's a likely scenario for a number of reasons. IMO WSU would want to know their exposure and would be conducting their own investigation. I think that it is possible that in the course of doing that, they uncovered some hidey-holes and information for BK. I cannot prove this, but it makes sense given the reasons for sealing the warrants/affidavits, and it fits within the scope of what the Office of the Registrar would have that would support that kind of judicial seal on the docs IMO.

Here's what the office does:
The Office of the Registrar provides state-of-the-art service in the areas of registration and student records, and supports academic affairs in a variety of ways, ranging from publication of professional quality Class Schedules and General Catalogs to scheduling classroom space. By providing high-quality service to students, faculty, and staff in a broad range of activities, the Office of the Registrar plays a key role in the everyday life of the University. Through continuous assessment of its performance, the Office of the Registrar will remain on the forefront of quality customer service, successful deployment of technology, and effective leadership.

Here are the reasons cited in the original motion to seal:

Interfere with enforcement proceedings;
Deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication;
Constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy,
Disclose the identity of a confidential source; and/or
Disclose investigative techniques and procedures.

I am assuming here that the prosecutor was being honest and this is not hyperbole, so I considered those in my IT theory.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20-%20Washington%20State%20University.pdf

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I believe Idaho law requires that each possible DP defendant have TWO lawyers. It's true in many states (ergo there are two attorneys for Letecia Stauch).

In Idaho, both attorneys must be DP qualified.

IIRC.

In the post you quoted, @Sister Golden Hair is referring to the prosecution, not the defense.

 

[maskedwoman]

MOO other than hubcaps I couldnt see much difference. What do you see as the visible differences?
I looked in Car Gurus to familiarize myself with the Elantra and looked at a lot of them, MOO seemed to me the 2015 was almost indistinguishable.

I agree. The only other real difference I saw was the color of the grill and I don't know how many versions of that car were available. Some vehicles have all kinds of trim options so, at this point, I don't know if that was simply a different trim option or an actual difference between the model years.

I realize that the FBI has cool tools to help them clean up pictures and videos, and I'm sure they do a lot more than Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop, but I don't think even the FBI can fix everything. Headlights create glare on the cameras, bad angles as the car comes through, speeding car creates blur, a car passing the other way blocks the view, bushes or trees between the car and camera, etc.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

You very well maybe right about the videos etc, but I dont think anyone here was suggesting that the Defense was going to build their entire case on the Elantra miss info. At least for me and the way I read the other posts the Elantra situation was just the subject of that one discussion. MOO

Totally agree. The Elantra is one piece. The totality of the evidence is considered but the individual pieces of evidence are used to chip away at the totality. If enough of the evidence or if any piece of it that it paramount to the case has enough chipped away, then reasonable doubt comes into play. The Elantra situation is one potential chip IMO.

Editing to add that I wouldn't expect an average bear to see or know the differences between the Elantra models/years, but experts are held to a higher standard, and experts on the witness stand even more scrutinized. I do think that there will be questions. ICBW and that's JMO.

 

[Helechawagirl]

BK sure gets pulled over a lot—<modsnip - off topic> JMO