4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

[Boxer]

I think there is zero chance of a plea deal, although I would be delighted to be wrong about that. If anyone has characterized this case as a slam dunk, I've forgotten it, but someone probably did at some point. Still, I can't imagine someone with this DA's experience not throwing everything he has and can beg/borrow/steal into this case. Even if he thought it was shaping up to be a slam dunk, only a fool would treat this case like a cakewalk and set himself up to get buried by the defense. MOOooo

ETA missing word

Agree. All trials are unpredictable in the first place. No professional would ever allow themselves to think like that.

 

[Boxer]

I believe this will be a long technically oriented trial.

The only currently released evidence that BK was at the scene is the DNA on the knife sheath. Obviously the DNA will do everything possible to exclude this evidence, and if not able to do that, will try to raise as many doubts as possible.

The FBI expert who originally excluded BK's automobile but then later included it in the date range will need to explain under oath why he did so. Was he informed prior to the change of suspect vehicle out of the date range prior to changing his opinion. The defense will find an expert to testify the FBI was originally correct.

BK turned his phone off on the night of the attacks. If his phone did not record satellite geolocation during that period, then he cannot be definitively placed at the house during that episode.

IMHO, it is hard to fit the known data into a scenario where BK is not the culprit. But it will take a good effort by the prosecution to remove reasonable doubt.

Wonder where he will say he was?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I think there is zero chance of a plea deal, although I would be delighted to be wrong about that. If anyone has characterized this case as a slam dunk, I've forgotten it, but someone probably did at some point. Still, I can't imagine someone with this DA's experience not throwing everything he has and can beg/borrow/steal into this case. Even if he thought it was shaping up to be a slam dunk, only a fool would treat this case like a cakewalk and set himself up to get buried by the defense. MOOooo

ETA missing word

I think there are many -- including some "experts" quoted in MSM -- who believe this is a slam dunk, especially due to the DNA. I agree with you and SGH, in no way is this case a slam dunk and only a fool of a prosecution would treat it as such.

JMO.

 

[Sundog]

Is it possible that the University leadership/counsel would request LE serve the warrant to the OotR and that office would disseminate the information instead of having warrants fly willy-nilly around campus? (I don't know the answer to this, so I'm spitballing).

Edited to clarify based on convo w/NC Watcher below. It's only my job to confuse @al66pine today. Everyone else is off the hook for today

No, it would be handled by the university leadership, mostly by the Office of General Counsel with the General Counsel and the Deputy General Counsel and others in that office. The registrar would normally report to the Provost and the Provost would work closely with the VP for Student Affairs, General Counsel, and President to coordinate the effort and gather informaton. The Chief Information Officer/VP for IT would also likely be involved. The Registrar is too far down the totem pole to play a role here, although s/he might be called upon to provide information regarding classes the students took (if any classes with WSU, for example), where the classrooms were located, who were the other students in the class (class rosters), etc. Or if there was ever a joint session in a class involving both U of I and WSU.

The registrar's office would collect data for IT reporting and reports regarding student retention based on various student demographics, as well as time-to-degree for various student demographics, also enrollment trends, classroom/facility needs, working closely with the Office of Institutional Research (IR). IT could also mean Instructional Technology, working with faculty on instructional technology needs. For example, if a faculty member needs a classroom with specific IT resources, the registrar's office would need to assign that class to a specific classroom/learning environment. IT often means Instructional Technology.

With regard to the "standards of conduct" statement on the Registrar's website, I imagine this would appear on pretty much every website at the university that students read, so that they are reminded of this over and over again. Especially the registrar's webpage, where students visit often. Standard protocol.

As NCwatcher stated above, the Division of Student Affairs is responsible for Student Code of Conduct/Standards issues, either the Dean of Students or the Vice President for Student Affairs.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm not sure the registrar's office is responsible for all those listed items printed under academic regulations. For example, #24 is tuition and fees. The registrar's office may print the tuition/fee schedule but that office doesn't collect money and keep those kinds of records. That falls to the Cashier's Office or the Bursar's Office. The very last item on that list relates to solicitation of faculty not being permitted. That's not the registrar's job to regulate either.

In the case of conduct records/honor code violations, those records are usually kept by the Dean of Students or Office of Student Affairs, not the registrar, at least in my experience.
JMO

Where I work, all of this is now integrated into one overall digital interface. The technical side is managed by IT who (in theory) has no access to the data.

We faculty now have access to lots of this data through the same interface. Student behavior data is *not* collected by the registrar at any college I've worked at (8 in total). That's collected as @NCWatcher says - by the Dean or VP of Student Services, but the actually forms are filled out by counselors and faculty. Faculty have access to a student's current schedule and can get access to their grades under certain circumstances. Honor code violations go to the VP of Student Services OR Academic Affairs, depending on institution. Speaking about such matters inside the institution is allowed under FERPA. Speaking to someone outside our institution is problematic. Students have been known to tape interactions with faculty and publish them online (sometimes outing other students in the process). They aren't supposed to do that according to the student handbook, but disciplinary procedures are rarely brought.

The public-facing office of all of this is the Registrar's Office as a first step, but in real life, we've had certain students/issues handled directly by the President or one of the Vice Presidents, in terms of dealing with the press, legal matters or outside inquiries. Campus Police have access to the same interface and have more privileges in using it than we faculty do. Police have quite a bit of autonomy (they obviously can look in DMV and criminal databases for info).

I would assume that both WSU and UofI have cameras on campus, as well. Our cameras are monitored by LE, which is true at most places. If UofI allows guests to use wifi (as most colleges do), then IT would also have records of his device signing on or pinging (now that they know its ID number). So if he was in the habit of using the library at UofI or simply just hanging out (while signing into wifi), they'd know that.

IMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I could see the prosecutor offering to take the DP off the table (he hasn't actually decided to pursue a death sentence yet) in return for a guilty plea. But I don't know that it would be taken by BK. I'm not sure the DA will pursue dp, but even if he does, BK knows the changes of him actually being executed if found guilty are slim to none.

BBM. Why do you say that? If he's found guilty of a quadruple murder, that would tell me the jurors believe without reasonable doubt he did it. Why wouldn't they recommend DP and why wouldn't the judge follow that recommendation?

 

[Montecore1]

The only currently released evidence that BK was at the scene is the DNA on the knife sheath. Obviously the DNA will do everything possible to exclude this evidence, and if not able to do that, will try to raise as many doubts as possible.

The FBI expert who originally excluded BK's automobile but then later included it in the date range will need to explain under oath why he did so. Was he informed prior to the change of suspect vehicle out of the date range prior to changing his opinion. The defense will find an expert to testify the FBI was originally correct.

BK turned his phone off on the night of the attacks. If his phone did not record satellite geolocation during that period, then he cannot be definitively placed at the house during that episode.

IMHO, it is hard to fit the known data into a scenario where BK is not the culprit. But it will take a good effort by the prosecution to remove reasonable doubt.

I agree with all of this Wallendo but I would add one thing to what I emphasized above. It only shows that his DNA was on an object that would have been carried into the crime scene.

IMO, if that DNA would have been on a door knob, wall or some other permanent part of the house only that would have shown that BCK had been inside the house...well actually inside the house at one point, not necessary on the early morn of Nov 13th.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

MOO dont know if it was "wrong" or tailored to not panic BK.

I've read this theory before. IMO, it would be stupid to do that because it will come back to bite. I also think that even if they claim to have done it on purpose, there better be official documentation that can be legitimately traced in terms of date that state that. People can say after the fact that it was done on purpose. IMO, we need proof of that.

 

[10ofRods]

Since Idaho's ability to execute the one man they've been trying to execute for a few years, they've changed their laws.

Idaho joins 4 other states in reinstating the use of firing squads.

State apparently claims it is their duty to follow their own law, which provides for a death penalty. So starting July 1, they have new ways of carrying out that law. According to the article I just linked (from NPR). I am curious to see if they're able to do the legal dance necessary to execute that one guy they've scheduled several times.

IMO. Another opinion: after the Prelim, all this stuff about the sheath and the car model will be in the rearview mirror, under an avalanche of a much longer investigation. The jury won't be stupid: they know that when someone turns off their phone (but the car continues to be caught on camera at the crime scene), what's up. They know that when someone returns to the scene of (an unreported!) crime, what's up. But there will be a lot more evidence by Prelim and, possibly, even more at trial. Could be a long trial.

IMO.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

There is a sealed WSU search warrant

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20-%20Washington%20State%20University.pdf

Thanks, @Nila Aella

The sealed search warrant for WSU references the reasons for sealing under/cites Idaho Court Administration Rule (I.C.A.R) 32 (i)(2) -- see the excerpt and link below.

MOO, when I read it, takeaways are:

• It has similar/same type of wording as some of the other sealed orders in this case regarding 2 reasons why the content of the records should be sealed because it may be highly intimate/objectionable (see "(A)") or might threaten or endanger the life or safety of individuals (see "(D)").
• In addition, it includes 4 other potential instances that could apply, including content that might be libelous (see "(B)"), could compromise the security of financial or personnel or records or public property used by the judicial department (see "(C)"), is necessary to preserve the right to a fair trial (see "(E)"), and/or the documents contain personal data identifiers that should have been redacted (see "(F)").

Just something to ponder, IMO, if there are multiple reasons (up to 6) to seal the warrant in the instance of records from WSU where BK was a student and TA.

I.C.A.R.32(i)(2) states:

"Idaho Court Administrative Rule 32. Records of The Judicial Department - Examination and Copying - Exemption From and Limitations on Disclosure.
...
(i) Other Prohibitions or Limitations on Disclosure and Motions Regarding the Sealing of Records. Physical and electronic records, may be disclosed, or temporarily or permanently sealed or redacted by order of the court on a case-by-case basis.
...
(2) Before a court may enter an order redacting or sealing records, it must also make one or more of the following determinations in writing:

(A) That the documents or materials contain highly intimate facts or statements, the publication of which would be highly objectionable to a reasonable person, or

(B) That the documents or materials contain facts or statements that the court finds might be libelous, or

(C) That the documents or materials contain facts or statements, the dissemination or publication of which may compromise the financial security of, or could reasonably result in economic or financial loss or harm to a person having an interest in the documents or materials, or compromise the security of personnel, records or public property of or used by the judicial department, or

(D) That the documents or materials contain facts or statements that might threaten or endanger the life or safety of individuals, or

(E) That it is necessary to temporarily seal or redact the documents or materials to preserve the right to a fair trial, or

(F) That the documents contain personal data identifiers that should have been redacted pursuant to Idaho Rule of Electronic Filing and Service 15, Idaho Rule of Civil Procedure 2.6, or Idaho Rule of Family Law Procedure 218 in which case the court shall order that the documents be redacted in a manner consistent with the provisions of that rule. "

I.C.A.R. 32. Records of The Judicial Department - Examination and Copying - Exemption From and Limitations on Disclosure. | Supreme Court

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

There's a bit of a tone going on in this thread that we are finding unsettling. When you enter the room, there's a little room off to the side where you can check your attitude

Please preview your post to ensure it is respectful. By respectful we mean not being antagonistic, argumentative or condescending toward other members. Address the post, not the poster. We're all here for the same reasons, and nobody likes to feel attacked for contributing their own opinion or asking questions.

If you find someone else's post not to your liking, it's really quite possible to mentally roll your eyes and then scroll and roll without resorting to unkind words that make others feel unwelcome and may result in them leaving the discussion or Websleuths.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

 

[Boxer]

I've read this theory before. IMO, it would be stupid to do that because it will come back to bite. I also think that even if they claim to have done it on purpose, there better be official documentation that can be legitimately traced in terms of date that state that. People can say after the fact that it was done on purpose. IMO, we need proof of that.

Of course.
MOO mistake or strategy MOO it's irrelevant, since the models are nearly identical.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

But that's exactly the point, right? I, for one, am not blaming the FBI for getting it wrong initially. I'm saying the fact that they got it wrong initially (for whatever reason -- little difference in the two models, glare, bad video, etc), is in the defense's favor. JMO

I'm a little slow today, but just typing over almost lunch... it seems that there are so many ways the defense can take this. Questions around when BK was identified as a suspect and the timing of the expanded Elantra years, the fact that the number of years increased instead of narrowed even though they had multiple videos and an expert with 35 years experience, maybe even sympathizing with the poor quality of the videos that could make it difficult even for an expert to ID the car, and all those routes lead back to: And so even with all of your expertise, you were wrong the first time. How do we know you're not just wrong the second time, too? Probably not in those words exactly lol, but the point to make. If car evidence is dinged up, and no GPS during time of crime, it seems like a lot would hinge on DNA - just based on what we know now. JMO at this moment in time and ICBW.

 

[Boxer]

I'm a little slow today, but just typing over almost lunch... it seems that there are so many ways the defense can take this. Questions around when BK was identified as a suspect and the timing of the expanded Elantra years, the fact that the number of years increased instead of narrowed even though they had multiple videos and an expert with 35 years experience, maybe even sympathizing with the poor quality of the videos that could make it difficult even for an expert to ID the car, and all those routes lead back to: And so even with all of your expertise, you were wrong the first time. How do we know you're not just wrong the second time, too? Probably not in those words exactly lol, but the point to make. If car evidence is dinged up, and no GPS during time of crime, it seems like a lot would hinge on DNA - just based on what we know now. JMO at this moment in time and ICBW.

Still the cars are virtually identical.
Where was BK during the 3:00-5:00 am hours.
Where was any other Elantra from, where did it go?

 

[10ofRods]

Is it possible that the University leadership/counsel would request LE serve the warrant to the OotR and that office would disseminate the information instead of having warrants fly willy-nilly around campus? (I don't know the answer to this, so I'm spitballing).

Edited to clarify based on convo w/NC Watcher below. It's only my job to confuse @al66pine today. Everyone else is off the hook for today

Where I live, with big institutions (not just colleges, but all public schools and many other places) have one person designated as the "Custodian of Records," to whom subpoenas are supposed to go. This does not mean that the person literally, physically has all the records, but that person is tasked with knowing to whom to send the requests and for compiling the response. At my college, it's the Registrar (who works under the purview of the Vice President of Student Affairs; it is the Dean of Counseling who hits the "submit" button for the behavioral reports to go into the database.)

Behavior reports are "tickets" at many universities (like what you fill out when a computer is broken," and it goes to a team of people (including faculty, psychologists, educational counselors, one psychiatrist, one police representative and a couple of Student Affairs administrators, usually including a VP). The Registrar requests these tickets, but does not maintain the database or otherwise have access to them. The Registrar can, however, file a ticket (and acting out at the Registrar's office or nearby area is not unheard of - students get mad if they are denied their program of study for such things as low GPA or for lack of payment; they actually get mad about little things too and take it out on the Registrar's staff - which is not far from Financial Aid/Bursar's office). The Financial Aid office has no windows that a student can approach - the Registrar has many.

This is part of WASC accreditation standards, so I figure WSU and UofI are similar.

IMO.

 

[Nila Aella]

Def 3rd supplemental request for discovery

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050323%20Defendants%203rd%20Supplemental%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Still the cars are virtually identical.
Where was BK during the 3:00-5:00 am hours.
Where was any other Elantra from, where did it go?

Those questions may not be needed for just one juror to have doubts. They would be needed to prove BK didn't do it, but that isn't how our judicial system is set up.

Also, the cars aren't virtually identical to experts. If @Montecore1 was able to describe the many differences, then surely the FBI forensic expert could do the same.

MOO.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Def 3rd supplemental request for discovery

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050323%20Defendants%203rd%20Supplemental%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

Thanks, @Nila Aella

Sounds like it's "all about the DNA" testing details, IMO.

 

[PrairieWind]

Def 3rd supplemental request for discovery

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050323%20Defendants%203rd%20Supplemental%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

As suspected, the testing of DNA was not done by the State of Idaho but was farmed out. This is getting all that info. But we are pretty far along. Is the defense late or was the info to them late? We are just over a month from pretrial.

 

[Nila Aella]

University of Idaho comes to the close of a tragic, turbulent school year • Idaho Capital Sun

On May 13, graduates, friends and family will stream into the University of Idaho’s Kibbie Dome for spring commencement. The ceremony concludes another academic year — and frames this particular year in stark context. Commencement will come six months to the day after Ethan Chapin, Kaylee...

idahocapitalsun.com

Goncalves and Mogen, who were seniors, will be awarded degrees posthumously. The U of I will award certificates posthumously to Kernodle, who was a junior, and Chapin, who was a freshman.