4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

[DizzyB]

QUOTE

"It wasn't reasonable to take his phone with him, though. I wonder why that was part of his script, I really do."

This question of his phone is a real head scratcher. I can think of only 2 reasons he would bring his phone.

1.) Ignorance. He thought turning it off was enough, didn't understand all the implications of bringing it.

2.) He actually did NOT plan to commit murder that night. Maybe did not plan to commit murder at all. Not planning a crime means it was safe to take the phone.

So then why take a knife and wear black clothes and mask?

Because he was returning to the house several times creeping through it, stalking, getting a thrill out of it. Disguised and with a weapon just in case he encountered someone. I don't think he had it planned out necessarily as well as we think - in regards to actually encountering an awake person.

Crimes like this normally show some type of escalation and creeping around in the house having that power and control over the victims is a good way to pave the way for this possible stalking behavior to have escalated.

He had opportunity. His phone pinged 11 times in that area late night/early morning.

He could have been simply doing another stalking foray but encountered awake victins, thus, unplanned, went into a killing frenzy because the occupants would likely call 911 for an intruder.

Remember, DM said she heard a male voice say something like "Don't worry I'm going to help you." And a roommate said "Someone is here."

If true, it sounds like Bryan was caught red-handed and his way out was to get rid of these witnesses to his late night burglary and stalking behaviors. A sure fire way to get himself arrested and ruin his life if he let these witnesses call 911.

No women were going to ruin his life.

(Theory as to why he brought his phone)

I think he needed his phone to navigate during that long drive after. Maybe he thought he was so smart he would never even be a suspect.

Or maybe he is just excited to be fulfilling some sort of long desired fantasy. Watching the aftermath, the news, the investigation, to his arrest and ultimately, he will be the star in a murder trial. This is attention he never would have gotten. Women are writing letters to him. People fear him. He will be written about. Two college campuses full of students lived in fear-because of him.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think he needed his phone to navigate during that long drive after. Maybe he thought he was so smart he would never even be a suspect.

Or maybe he is just excited to be fulfilling some sort of long desired fantasy. Watching the aftermath, the news, the investigation, to his arrest and ultimately, he will be the star in a murder trial. This is attention he never would have gotten. Women are writing letters to him. People fear him. He will be written about. Two college campuses full of students lived in fear-because of him.

I never get tired of the "why" do these murderers do what they do?

The age old question.

If BK actually did plan to commit mass murder in order to drum up the excitement of being the only one "in the know" and thus being able to "one up" law enforcement, then what doesn't make sense is his letting himself get fired.

Seems he would rather stick around to watch the chaos he created, and to bask in the knowledge that he clearly knew more than law enforcement.

It looks like he was in the middle of a downward spiral in his life, unable mentally and emotionally to get a handle on it.

Serial killer profilers look for precipitating negative factors happening in a suspect's life and usually they find red flags of current failures. Usually bad childhoods also, but BK seems to have doting engaged parents. BK's antisocial mental issues seem to originate from himself as opposed to environment.

Just 2 Cents

 

[jjleroche]

QUOTE

"It wasn't reasonable to take his phone with him, though. I wonder why that was part of his script, I really do."

This question of his phone is a real head scratcher. I can think of only 2 reasons he would bring his phone.

1.) Ignorance. He thought turning it off was enough, didn't understand all the implications of bringing it.

2.) He actually did NOT plan to commit murder that night. Maybe did not plan to commit murder at all. Not planning a crime means it was safe to take the phone.

So then why take a knife and wear black clothes and mask?

Because he was returning to the house several times creeping through it, stalking, getting a thrill out of it. Disguised and with a weapon just in case he encountered someone. I don't think he had it planned out necessarily as well as we think - in regards to actually encountering an awake person.

Crimes like this normally show some type of escalation and creeping around in the house having that power and control over the victims is a good way to pave the way for this possible stalking behavior to have escalated.

He had opportunity. His phone pinged 11 times in that area late night/early morning.

He could have been simply doing another stalking foray but encountered awake victins, thus, unplanned, went into a killing frenzy because the occupants would likely call 911 for an intruder.

Remember, DM said she heard a male voice say something like "Don't worry I'm going to help you." And a roommate said "Someone is here."

If true, it sounds like Bryan was caught red-handed and his way out was to get rid of these witnesses to his late night burglary and stalking behaviors. A sure fire way to get himself arrested and ruin his life if he let these witnesses call 911.

No women were going to ruin his life.

(Theory as to why he brought his phone)

As mentioned by RainbowsHummingbird (Thanks for your post Rainbows, poor sense of direction, (hence requiring phone's maps apps) could well be the answer to this IMO, particularly if planning to drive a route with which he's not particularly familar, in darkness.
I'm guessing historical data of maps apps on suspect's phone can be accessed by LE. (I sure hope so.) IMO MOO

 

[whiterhino]

This shows premeditation if you decide to use your personal shower curtain removing it from your apartment possibly placing it in the car to line it and then roll everything up inside and ditch afterwards. Speculative, of course.

Premeditation is simply thinking about the murder before committing it, regardless of how long or short the time, so based on the facts as we know them now, the murders, regardless of who committed them and whether or not a missing shower curtain was involved, were definitely premeditated imo.

https://blacks_law.en-academic.com/38009/premeditation

The act of meditating in advance; deliberation upon a contemplated act; plotting or contriving; a design formed to do something before it is done. Decision or plan to commit a crime, such as murder, before committing it. A prior determination to do an act, but such determination need not exist for any particular period before it is carried into effect. Thought of beforehand for any length of time, however short. State v. Marston, Mo., 479 S.W.2d 481, 484.

Premeditation is one of the elements of first degree murder, and in this context, means that defendant acts with either the intention or the knowledge that he will kill another human being when such intention or knowledge precedes the killing by a length of time to permit reflection. State v. Clabourne, 142 Ariz. 335, 690 P.2d 54, 64.

@Chloegirl That certainly is one theory! If the shower curtain were to have been located (particularly with any traces of evidence) it would IMO be considered evidence/proof of premeditation.

@Sister Golden Hair True that premeditation really only requires that the perpetrator spend time thinking about it (even for a minute) however, there is no way to prove someone had a thought. Therefore if the shower curtain were used in the way @Chloegirl suggested and if it were to have been found by LE (esp containing evidence) would/could that item not be (potentially) indicative of premeditation?

 

[Cool Cats]

As mentioned by RainbowsHummingbird (Thanks for your post Rainbows, poor sense of direction, (hence requiring phone's maps apps) could well be the answer to this IMO, particularly if planning to drive a route with which he's not particularly familar, in darkness.
I'm guessing historical data of maps apps on suspect's phone can be accessed by LE. (I sure hope so.) IMO MOO

Yes, it was dark and he is so young he is just used to digital maps. Personally, I would simply use a paper map, not hard to do, and ditch my phone.

Most murder cases I look into that are planned ahead, the killer leaves his/her phone in the place where he/she wants to establish their alibi. Seems rare to take their phone with them.

Goes back to ignorance on how digital phone data works, thinking he could use his map app and not be discovered, or just wasn't planning to commit murder. Was just stalking the victims like always and it all escalated with the encounter of awake victims.

I can't get it out of my mind that an intelligent person like him, poor social skills but intelligent, would deliberately bring his phone to a home where he planned to commit mass murder.

But then he did turn his phone off, which shows premeditation.

I think I'm going to have to give up on speculating about this, just makes no sense, the murders make no sense. None of it.

 

[Sundog]

And as we've discussed in previous threads, most PhD student offices are used sparingly anyway. They certainly wouldn't have been outfitted with a computer, and would have likely just provided a quiet place to meet with students when necessary. He might not have left anything in there even if he hadn't had his TA job terminated.

We also know it was a shared office, which is common for grad students. (I think the fellow students who used the office were, IIRC, unfortunately named on one of the warrants. I remember discussing that it was unfortunate their names had not been redacted).

Agree, we don't provide our graduate students with computers anymore, we provide them with a laptop and a docking station if they want to use their laptop instead of a computer in their shared offices. Most of our graduate students who use their offices frequently are graduate students who are married and have young children, this gives them a quiet place to work. Most of our grad students use the offices provided for their office hours to meet with students who are in the classes where the grad students serve as TAs.

 

[10ofRods]

But you said they can't set up foundations because of the gag order. There's no evidence to suggest that. IMO, I'd clear that up in that post because it can cause confusion.

That's not what I said. Please quote me next time, so that others can see I didn't say that.

I said that it's POSSIBLE that SG might feel that way. The setting up of charities/foundations and the round of public appearances have a time stamp on them. This crime will recede into the past. If he wants to do something in memory of his daughter (and maybe even a book deal to support it?!?) he surely needs to make sure he's clear of the gag order.

Perhaps you would not yourself be concerned about the consequences of a gag order (I've never been under one) but I can easily see that some parents of deceased children might want to be able to say what they know! In Public! In any instance!

How is that so weird?

He HAS ALREADY set something up. As I said. He just might want to be able to speak his mind in support of it? There's no evidence, of course - just critical thinking, common sense and knowledge of how a variety of humans might operate.

It's not at all bizarre that the bereaved father of a young woman might want to speak freely about his cause.

I don't need evidence to claim that people grieve differently or that grieving parents may want certain things. IMO.

Further, I've never seen such evidence (I am using the term legally) in any instance. There are many things that don't have legal evidence, but people can still bring a motion to the court and ask the court for relief. In this case, as I understand it, the Gonçalves family is asking for clarification.

Are they asking also for relief? I hadn't heard that. If only asking for their First Amendment Rights, they don't need evidence.

IMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

That's not what I said. Please quote me next time, so that others can see I didn't say that.

If I misinterpreted what you said, I do apologize as it was not on purpose. For the record though, I did quote you in an earlier post about this topic. In fairness to you, I will quote what you said in your post again:


"I think some of the families also want to start foundations or charities. In my own lifetime, this has been a common thing for bereaved families to do (and not just due to murder). I feel so badly for these families, not being able to do that, because apparently any mention of the case could put them in legal jeopardy."


To me, that means you're saying that due to the gag order, they are not able to start foundations or charities. Again, if I misinterpreted that, it was not on purpose.

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

Would like to see the Judge lift the gag order for families. They are doing / grieving as families do. They should be able to speak-out and answer some of these queries / questions. Let them speak.

www.websleuths.com

 

[10ofRods]

QUOTE

"It wasn't reasonable to take his phone with him, though. I wonder why that was part of his script, I really do."

This question of his phone is a real head scratcher. I can think of only 2 reasons he would bring his phone.

1.) Ignorance. He thought turning it off was enough, didn't understand all the implications of bringing it.

2.) He actually did NOT plan to commit murder that night. Maybe did not plan to commit murder at all. Not planning a crime means it was safe to take the phone.

So then why take a knife and wear black clothes and mask?

Because he was returning to the house several times creeping through it, stalking, getting a thrill out of it. Disguised and with a weapon just in case he encountered someone. I don't think he had it planned out necessarily as well as we think - in regards to actually encountering an awake person.

Crimes like this normally show some type of escalation and creeping around in the house having that power and control over the victims is a good way to pave the way for this possible stalking behavior to have escalated.

He had opportunity. His phone pinged 11 times in that area late night/early morning.

He could have been simply doing another stalking foray but encountered awake victins, thus, unplanned, went into a killing frenzy because the occupants would likely call 911 for an intruder.

Remember, DM said she heard a male voice say something like "Don't worry I'm going to help you." And a roommate said "Someone is here."

If true, it sounds like Bryan was caught red-handed and his way out was to get rid of these witnesses to his late night burglary and stalking behaviors. A sure fire way to get himself arrested and ruin his life if he let these witnesses call 911.

No women were going to ruin his life.

(Theory as to why he brought his phone)

Wow. I love how you took that one bit (that deviates from Rational Choice) and came up with very good reasons why he did what he did.

If he in fact had a habit of hot prowling, that would fit Rational Choice Theory (get the facts, make rational choices). For those not familiar, this is a theory about how to reason out a better crime, weighing the risks and deciding the odds are on one's own side.

Originally, I thought the theory of "just went into a frenzy" when things didn't go his way was a bit out there, but the more I read about RCT (not used by criminals - used by criminologists, interestingly), I am beginning to see it your way. If he had done multiple stalking forays, this makes sense.

One can almost sense the rising tension, in your account. He sets out from Pullman at 2 am'ish, as he has done before. He is getting more and more excited (and has started to shut his phone down as he approaches his hot prowl target). Much like Joe DeAngelo (and FWIW, also Joe DeAngelo's brother, according to some sources). So he turns his phone off, not quite sure of what he intends to do (possible). But he has made contact with MM via Instagram at least 3 times before this (I posted the link earlier).

He's energized, amped, scared, etc. He finally parks. He does NOT expect to find the house awake and so "crowded." He HAS thought about what he will say to someone in the house if he encounters them, "Don't worry, I'm just a friend" or similar.

Wow. Makes lots of sense. But it becomes a motive that's elusive for LE and the State, for sure. I will now posit that there's a psychosexual thing going on in this crime (regardless of who did it). It's not overtly sexual, but it is definitely a man who committed this crime, IMO, and three women who died (Ethan is collateral damage). I also believe that if this ever comes to trial (and I think it will), the jury will be asked to weigh in on facts (from the autopsy; hinted at by SG) that may be pertinent.

=====
All speculation of course. I tend to use actual models of other past, proved criminal behavior in my analysis. I think your analysis fits with all that.

I was very unconvinced by the "he might not have intended to kill everyone" scenarios early on, but I've come around. I am still on the fence, but I do think he might have had MM as a kind of "target." For me, if his acquisition of the Ka-Bar knife was recent (after he moved to Pullman), that's big clue as to his state of mind and his criminality.

IMO.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

This is going to be streamed live to the public:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050523%20Notice%20of%20Remote%20Hearing%20CR.pdf

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

This is going to be streamed live to the public:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050523%20Notice%20of%20Remote%20Hearing%20CR.pdf

Any speculation on what this is for? It's interesting that it's 3 days prior to the hearing on the gag order.

 

[jjleroche]

Yes, it was dark and he is so young he is just used to digital maps. Personally, I would simply use a paper map, not hard to do, and ditch my phone.

Most murder cases I look into that are planned ahead, the killer leaves his/her phone in the place where he/she wants to establish their alibi. Seems rare to take their phone with them.

Goes back to ignorance on how digital phone data works, thinking he could use his map app and not be discovered, or just wasn't planning to commit murder. Was just stalking the victims like always and it all escalated with the encounter of awake victims.

I can't get it out of my mind that an intelligent person like him, poor social skills but intelligent, would deliberately bring his phone to a home were he planned to commit mass murder.

But then he did turn his phone off, which shows premeditation.

I think I'm going to have to give up on speculating about this, just makes no sense, the murders make no sense. None of it.

I agree - paper map for me too. It does seem (MOO) hard to believe that an intelligent person would deliberately take one's phone to a place where one was intending to commit murder. The phone was turned off however, indicating premeditation IMO.

Doesn't make sense at all, unless other factors are present. IMO, if the suspect did commit the murders, and brought his phone with him (albeit turned off during the commitment of the actual crime), there was a very important reason for doing so. IMO it could be one of two reasons (or both) for doing so:
1) The perpetrator is not too flash/really hopeless with navigation, especially in darkness (VSS maybe
VSS exacerbates this)
2) The compulsion to commit the murder(s) has become overwhelming - over-riding caution about potential of maps
data to provide information to LE
Either way, if he wishes to proceed, he'll need the phone en route.
All IMO MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I never get tired of the "why" do these murderers do what they do?

The age old question.

If BK actually did plan to commit mass murder in order to drum up the excitement of being the only one "in the know" and thus being able to "one up" law enforcement, then what doesn't make sense is his letting himself get fired.

Seems he would rather stick around to watch the chaos he created, and to bask in the knowledge that he clearly knew more than law enforcement.

It looks like he was in the middle of a downward spiral in his life, unable mentally and emotionally to get a handle on it.

Serial killer profilers look for precipitating negative factors happening in a suspect's life and usually they find red flags of current failures. Usually bad childhoods also, but BK seems to have doting engaged parents. BK's antisocial mental issues seem to originate from himself as opposed to environment.

Just 2 Cents

Good points, @Cool Cats

My 2 cents on him possibly "letting himself get fired" from the TA position =

1 cents worth of him thinking it was time to boogie on down the road and go back home "for the holidays" and slide into living back at mom & dad's and laying low 2,000 miles from the Moscow murders. To keep under the radar til things blew over, and LE either chased their tails into the ground running down all the potential perps that had ever entered that 'party house' and/or pinned it on some other sucker. So he didn't really care if he got fired, he was a short timer soon to be far away safe at home. He might have even acted out to get himself fired so he could eventually tell his parents some time in January that he was thinking about not going back because there was a misunderstanding or incompatibility with professors there or the TAship had lost funding or been given away or whatever. Which I think would elicit sympathy for poor Bryan who is struggling to find his place in the world, just give him some more time, and he could go back to being a hermit at home. MOO
+
1 cents worth of him losing his proverbial sh%*! that Fall in that new environment where he had tried to acclimate and to make friends/perhaps study buddies, but hadn't been able to AFAIK. So he felt more isolated than ever, with no apparent support systems, like at least he had from his parental unit and familiar community in The Poconos where he grew up, and where he had lived his whole life, and his entire 10 years of adult life AFAIK. And relationships on his new campus were going down the tubes, and he simply could no longer control his antagonistic behavior and blew his top with the professor he was TAing for and got himself fired, because on some level he had decided to give up on staying there since the bloom was off the rose and he had hit a kind of a wall so quickly in his role as a TA - complaints, improvement plan, geez, that would be disheartening and possibly too much of a comeuppance for him when he had finally arrived in a position of authority and felt like he could finally spout off some, misogynistically or otherwise, without being called on it. MOO

There could have been a lot of cultural differences to overcome, as well, we don't know how much that part of ID was or wasn't like where he was from, and if it would have been refreshing to be in a new place or maybe unsettling for him if he felt like he was out of his element.

I have always wondered how he was doing in his actual classes and coursework at WSU during his 1st semester there last Fall. He was there to get a PhD, afterall, that was the meat and potatoes, and the TA position was just gravy, IMO.

I haven't seen anything about how he did in his classes in MSM, IIRC, other than unconfirmed opinions of classmates about what he was like and his demeanor, etc. I feel bad for him if he was not enjoying or able to keep up with the coursework as well, as that would really be all he had to hold onto except maybe his running and extracurricular activities.

JMO and speculation

 

[10ofRods]

That was my first thought as well. But then, afterward, he had a month during which he could have replaced it, but apparently didn't, so I question the likelihood of that scenario now.

Soon after, he knew he would be leaving Pullman and likely not coming back. I don't think he had lots of extra spending money - just the typical student budget. If BK is the murderer, he had lots of things on his mind during that period - less is more, when it comes to vacating an apartment that might have crime evidence.

Plus, going into a store that sells shower curtains (if one had actually used a shower curtain in some manner to conceal a crime - or had used a shower curtain in such a way as to leave evidence) might spook certain kinds of criminals (who are following Script Theory, for example).

I was using Rational Choice Theory (BK's favorite, per Prof B) to respond, btw.

IMO

 

[I'm Nobody]

Any speculation on what this is for? It's interesting that it's 3 days prior to the hearing on the gag order.

May 22, 2023 at 10:00 a.m. via ZOOM, now a Remote Scheduling Hearing/conference.

Goncalves Gag Order Hearing (with Associated Press et al) appears to have scheduling issues.

May 25, 2023 10:00 AM MDT has been vacated

New Event Type: Remote Hearing/Scheduling Conference

If I'm reading this correctly it's NOT public so why list ID & password for how to attend. There are some very clever sleuths who can figure out who is on the list. IIRC That happened to Brian Entin a while back. Likely not going to discuss any gag order issues but only when to hold the new hearing that was previously scheduled for May 25, now vacated.

JMO.



"Online: Video Conferencing, Web Conferencing, Webinars, Screen Sharing

Meeting ID: 978 8958 7151 Password: 12345"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1654616359366541316

 

[10ofRods]

Any speculation on what this is for? It's interesting that it's 3 days prior to the hearing on the gag order.

To me, it's just a notification that everyone must appear and that it will be remote, rather than in the physical courtroom. It's possible the hearing on the gag order will allow remote appearances - that's how it sounds to me (it's a notice of a form of hearing, for the upcoming hearing).

Pretty standard post-COVID.

IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Wow. I love how you took that one bit (that deviates from Rational Choice) and came up with very good reasons why he did what he did.

If he in fact had a habit of hot prowling, that would fit Rational Choice Theory (get the facts, make rational choices). For those not familiar, this is a theory about how to reason out a better crime, weighing the risks and deciding the odds are on one's own side.

Originally, I thought the theory of "just went into a frenzy" when things didn't go his way was a bit out there, but the more I read about RCT (not used by criminals - used by criminologists, interestingly), I am beginning to see it your way. If he had done multiple stalking forays, this makes sense.

One can almost sense the rising tension, in your account. He sets out from Pullman at 2 am'ish, as he has done before. He is getting more and more excited (and has started to shut his phone down as he approaches his hot prowl target). Much like Joe DeAngelo (and FWIW, also Joe DeAngelo's brother, according to some sources). So he turns his phone off, not quite sure of what he intends to do (possible). But he has made contact with MM via Instagram at least 3 times before this (I posted the link earlier).

He's energized, amped, scared, etc. He finally parks. He does NOT expect to find the house awake and so "crowded." He HAS thought about what he will say to someone in the house if he encounters them, "Don't worry, I'm just a friend" or similar.

Wow. Makes lots of sense. But it becomes a motive that's elusive for LE and the State, for sure. I will now posit that there's a psychosexual thing going on in this crime (regardless of who did it). It's not overtly sexual, but it is definitely a man who committed this crime, IMO, and three women who died (Ethan is collateral damage). I also believe that if this ever comes to trial (and I think it will), the jury will be asked to weigh in on facts (from the autopsy; hinted at by SG) that may be pertinent.

=====
All speculation of course. I tend to use actual models of other past, proved criminal behavior in my analysis. I think your analysis fits with all that.

I was very unconvinced by the "he might not have intended to kill everyone" scenarios early on, but I've come around. I am still on the fence, but I do think he might have had MM as a kind of "target." For me, if his acquisition of the Ka-Bar knife was recent (after he moved to Pullman), that's big clue as to his state of mind and his criminality.

IMO.

Nice post, thanks.

I too like to draw upon "actual models of other past, proved criminal behavior." I am definitely a reader of the "Criminal Minds " books.

I have found that escalation is a big factor in murder cases.

I hesitate to use this as an example, such a hair-raising case, but the Manson Family members actually went out on creeping missions before they escalated into murder. They called it creepy crawling. Sneaking into homes in the dark with all the people asleep - then moving items around.

I think Bryan's mode of escalation started with an online social media obsession with one or more of the women. Soon, this was not enough, he needed more contact. This is accomplished by actual physical stalking. Leaving the safety of looking at women online and transitioning into looking at women in person.

The King Rd.house made it easy for a stalker. Easy access road on the side and actual parking spots on the road behind.The two 3rd floor bedroom windows are at eye-level view which is unusual, normally a 3rd floor is too high to see in. Many drivers coming and going (without notice) along with the "hillside" build of the house, made it fairly easy for a stalker. Including trees and vegetation to hide behind.

So Bryan's next step after looking through windows was to then sneak into the house. Likely he found the 2nd floor slider door was often not locked and made his entry there. Actually, the security lock code on the front door was often not used so friends could easily enter, that includes access for a killer.

I believe the killer had been "creeping " in the house on other nights and was very familiar, in the dark, of how to navigate the layout of the home.

I think there could have been escalation involving the knife, that the knife wasn't brought to the home at first, but was as you said:

"if his acquisition of the Ka-Bar knife was recent, that's big clue as to his state of mind and his criminality."

If he obtained the knife in Pullman during the time he was stalking, then the knife shows a true escalation in his stalking. There is a line being crossed, he is actually fantasizing about a real physical encounter with one of the women, the final step in his obsession.

He went from online views -
then online messaging -
then his online messaging got persistent, it escalated -
then real person views from a distance -
then real person views up close and personal watching them as they slept -
then to an actual confrontation.

Now whether this confrontation was a surprise or whether it was planned for that night we may never know.

But there has to be a path from point A to point B.

Ponit A = Discovering the victims then developing a preoccupation with them then his focus turns to obsession with them then messaging them.

To Point B = He comes into direct physical contact with them.

Frenzy is the only word to describe it because there was OVERKILL. He used the knife by stabbing multiple times which wasn't necessary to kill them.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Any speculation on what this is for? It's interesting that it's 3 days prior to the hearing on the gag order.

Looks like it's an open invitation to the Goncalves AP gag order <modsnip>. Stoel Rives and the Goncalves' atty are on the guest list, so guessing it's this:

I.R.C.P. 16. Pretrial Conferences; Scheduling; Management | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

 

[housewife]

QUOTE

"It wasn't reasonable to take his phone with him, though. I wonder why that was part of his script, I really do."

This question of his phone is a real head scratcher. I can think of only 2 reasons he would bring his phone.

1.) Ignorance. He thought turning it off was enough, didn't understand all the implications of bringing it.

2.) He actually did NOT plan to commit murder that night. Maybe did not plan to commit murder at all. Not planning a crime means it was safe to take the phone.

So then why take a knife and wear black clothes and mask?

Because he was returning to the house several times creeping through it, stalking, getting a thrill out of it. Disguised and with a weapon just in case he encountered someone. I don't think he had it planned out necessarily as well as we think - in regards to actually encountering an awake person.

Crimes like this normally show some type of escalation and creeping around in the house having that power and control over the victims is a good way to pave the way for this possible stalking behavior to have escalated.

He had opportunity. His phone pinged 11 times in that area late night/early morning.

He could have been simply doing another stalking foray but encountered awake victins, thus, unplanned, went into a killing frenzy because the occupants would likely call 911 for an intruder.

Remember, DM said she heard a male voice say something like "Don't worry I'm going to help you." And a roommate said "Someone is here."

If true, it sounds like Bryan was caught red-handed and his way out was to get rid of these witnesses to his late night burglary and stalking behaviors. A sure fire way to get himself arrested and ruin his life if he let these witnesses call 911.

No women were going to ruin his life.

(Theory as to why he brought his phone)

Did he use the phone to listen to a police scanner as he drove away from the crime? That would be practical as well as provide “duping delight” and make things more “exciting” for him. Apologies if someone already mentioned this.

 

[taml]

If I thought there was blood evidence in my bathroom, I probably wouldn't mind getting water all over the floor, and then wiping it up (and if I were compulsive, I'd do it with paper towels and get rid of all of it). Over and over. Like Lady Macbeth.

IMO.


According to Prof B., BK's favorite theories of criminal behavior were Rational Choice Theory and Script Theory.

So I keep trying to think what a Super Reasoner would do, having completed his rationally planned crime via his careful script. I never get far in my imagination, because just the things he'd have needed to do with his car (to keep blood evidence from getting everywhere) require some purchases and planning.

But let's just say that he went on home to Pullman after the murders, via that loop route, checking out what he could see as the sun came up, of the country out there. All of his kill stuff is still in his car at that point.

One goal he must have had was to remove all blood evidence from his own person (and get rid of whatever secondary clothing, if any, he might have had). So it does make sense that he might do a big evidence dump (or a smaller secondary dump) in that second drive on Sunday (the one where he arrives at 1122 King at around 9 am and then in Clarkston at noonish). Clarkston is only about 40 minutes from 1122 King, and then it's about 40 minutes back to Steptoe Apts. I wonder why it took him about 3 hours to get to Clarkston after leaving 1122 that Sunday morning.

Anyway, surely he had driven that route before? To check out possibly evidence dumping spots to put into his "script"? His theory doesn't account for mistakes such as leaving behind the sheath (or being seen doing a 3 point turn to go back to the house), but what does a Rational Choice person do in this case? He knew they'd be after his DNA (and it surprising how few hairs they found in his apartment - lots of cleaning). He obviously cleaned his car (many times). It wasn't reasonable to take his phone with him, though. I wonder why that was part of his script, I really do.

IMO.

This may be a stupid question, but I’ve been wanting to ask it for very long time. Do you think there’s any possibility that he was naked?