4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

[Deleted member 718]

Which can also help the defense, IMO.

As you remember, there's another video of Suspect vehicle 1 first being seen over on Indian Hills Drive an hour before the murders. LE is also unable to discern the license plate in the video.

Read the affidavit on how investigators identified the Idaho killings suspect | CNN

Idaho officials have publicly released court documents -- including a probably cause affidavit -- in prosecutors' case against Bryan Kohberger, who faces four counts of first-degree murder and one count of burglary in the killings of four University of Idaho undergraduate students.

www.cnn.com

A review of camera footage indicated that a white sedan, hereafter "Suspect Vehicle 1", was observed traveling westbound in the 700 block of Indian Hills Drive in Moscow at approximately 3:26 a.m and westbound on Styner Avenue at Idaho State Highway 95 in Moscow at approximately 3:28 a.m. On this video, it appeared Suspect Vehicle 1 was not displaying a front license plate.

 

[Helechawagirl]

@Sjöberg starting on page 10, you can find the results of the presumptive chemical tests for blood:

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/kohberger-search-records-from-wsu/6e5a6ce24a286a06/full.pdf

Hmmm. All neg but pillowcase and mattress cover which is, IMO, probably his. I was hopeful the spots on the light switches may have been blood, but they tested negative.

(May not have even been spots.) wondering what the results are from the vehicle? Is the vehicle still in PA or was it brought back to Idaho?

I try to imagine the crime in progress and I suppose it’s possible that there was not a lot of blood transferred to the killer. Splatter is more likely IMO.

If clothes were disposed of, along with shower curtain, May be difficult to get more evidence.

Without bodies being transported in his vehicle, may not have been as hard to clean up as I first thought due to lack of transfer.

I’m not sure whether lack of positive results is a pro or con?

It seems like the digital trail is more promising.

JMO

 

[Idaho transplant]

Wow. I love how you took that one bit (that deviates from Rational Choice) and came up with very good reasons why he did what he did.

If he in fact had a habit of hot prowling, that would fit Rational Choice Theory (get the facts, make rational choices). For those not familiar, this is a theory about how to reason out a better crime, weighing the risks and deciding the odds are on one's own side.

Originally, I thought the theory of "just went into a frenzy" when things didn't go his way was a bit out there, but the more I read about RCT (not used by criminals - used by criminologists, interestingly), I am beginning to see it your way. If he had done multiple stalking forays, this makes sense.

One can almost sense the rising tension, in your account. He sets out from Pullman at 2 am'ish, as he has done before. He is getting more and more excited (and has started to shut his phone down as he approaches his hot prowl target). Much like Joe DeAngelo (and FWIW, also Joe DeAngelo's brother, according to some sources). So he turns his phone off, not quite sure of what he intends to do (possible). But he has made contact with MM via Instagram at least 3 times before this (I posted the link earlier).

He's energized, amped, scared, etc. He finally parks. He does NOT expect to find the house awake and so "crowded." He HAS thought about what he will say to someone in the house if he encounters them, "Don't worry, I'm just a friend" or similar.

Wow. Makes lots of sense. But it becomes a motive that's elusive for LE and the State, for sure. I will now posit that there's a psychosexual thing going on in this crime (regardless of who did it). It's not overtly sexual, but it is definitely a man who committed this crime, IMO, and three women who died (Ethan is collateral damage). I also believe that if this ever comes to trial (and I think it will), the jury will be asked to weigh in on facts (from the autopsy; hinted at by SG) that may be pertinent.

=====
All speculation of course. I tend to use actual models of other past, proved criminal behavior in my analysis. I think your analysis fits with all that.

I was very unconvinced by the "he might not have intended to kill everyone" scenarios early on, but I've come around. I am still on the fence, but I do think he might have had MM as a kind of "target." For me, if his acquisition of the Ka-Bar knife was recent (after he moved to Pullman), that's big clue as to his state of mind and his criminality.

IMO.

Could you please explain (again) about your comment that 'he had made contact with MM via instagram at least 3 times.'
I had not heard of this. Did MM receive these messages? Did she respond?

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

wondering what the results are from the vehicle? Is the vehicle still in PA or was it brought back to Idaho?

S&BBM for focus:

The defense is wondering, too:

2. Mr. Kohberger requests an Order for the State to disclose the following items included
in the Defendant’s 1st Supplemental Request for Discovery:

Request N0. 49 — All lab testing, including photographs and color diagrams
and bench notes including, but not limited to:

l. Copies of lab reports detailing the forensic evidence collection and
analysis of items recovered at Bryan Kohberger’s parents’ home,
trash cans and other receptacles, and Bryan Kohberger’s Hyundai
Elantra.

As of May 4, 2023, Counsel for Mr. Kohberger has not received the requested
materials, and based upon information and belief these reports contain
exculpatory information.

 

[Deleted member 718]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1592610179316879360

 

[Helechawagirl]

So are you suggesting that in addition to intentionally bleeding on his pillow BK created all those fake blood spots? For example, apparently there was a stain near the curtain rod on one side. It was tested & was not blood, and to me, it sounded like it could be a small rust stain. Do we think he created stains like that?
JMO

I don’t. In fact if I was the killer, I’d shower in a gym or other common area.

 

[schooling]

Yes, it was dark and he is so young he is just used to digital maps. Personally, I would simply use a paper map, not hard to do, and ditch my phone.

Most murder cases I look into that are planned ahead, the killer leaves his/her phone in the place where he/she wants to establish their alibi. Seems rare to take their phone with them.

Goes back to ignorance on how digital phone data works, thinking he could use his map app and not be discovered, or just wasn't planning to commit murder. Was just stalking the victims like always and it all escalated with the encounter of awake victims.

I can't get it out of my mind that an intelligent person like him, poor social skills but intelligent, would deliberately bring his phone to a home where he planned to commit mass murder.

But then he did turn his phone off, which shows premeditation.

I think I'm going to have to give up on speculating about this, just makes no sense, the murders make no sense. None of it.

Exactly, this is why I don't believe for a second that he was some sort of hacker mastermind.

The default Airplane Mode behavior in 99% of phones is Cellular (phone/data) OFF, Wifi OFF, GPS on. A GPS signal just pings (bounces) off satellites and you get sent back a position. Pretty benign. On it's own....no personal information unwittingly transmitted, no potential for malware or unwanted data into your phone, doesn't interfere with Airplane equipment. And best of all it works with no other cell service at all.

Garmin has made a zillion dollars off their GPS only mapping devices which used to be popular in cars but now are extremely popular hiking out in the middle of nowhere. Places where there is no cell service. So technically, your phone is totally capable of giving you turn by turn direction without ever touching a cellular tower or wifi. So why don't they out of the box? Well, Garmin devices are purpose built to hold maps. So almost every KB of hard drive space is dedicated to mapping and direction data. Your phone is built to do everything and space is at a premium. So it requests the mapping and turning data it needs using a cellular data service or wifi on mostly a case by case basis.

So catch22 right? Since you have no data, you don't have the proper images or directions downloaded to render turn by turn.

The trick is to request the directions. Your phone caches the maps you'll need and the directions just in case you run into a dead zone. And then turn Airplane Mode ON. MAGIC! Full turn by turn directions. Full maps. And it's no one else's business but you and your phone since GPS is pretty dumb (by today's standards).

Of course you're still not in the clear. As theirs data likely lingering on your phone from your initial request. And their likely might be more if you don't have the right privacy settings set on your favorite flavor of Android or iPhone.

Before I go on any flight I take a moment in the airport to ask for driving directions to whatever location I'm going to. And then In Google Maps there's an explicit option to download for offline use (this is a better option if you frequently visit this place). In Apple Maps you only get a temporary cache store. Doing this allows me to pull out my phone in Airplane mode and be able to see where we are in the country and how far we are from the destination (as an alternative to the inflight version).

 

[schooling]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1592610179316879360

My immediate reaction was...wait..he couldn't be that dumb....

Then I remembered that he likely drove his own car to the scene....and did a 3 point turn.

Them having the knife does make sense (though I'm not buying it) within the context of my post a few days ago. The one pointing out that it seemed like LE was only searching for a sheath at Blue Ridge Knives (if you read it in a certain way)

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Did he use the phone to listen to a police scanner as he drove away from the crime? That would be practical as well as provide “duping delight” and make things more “exciting” for him. Apologies if someone already mentioned this.

No apologies needed, @housewife, the possibility BK kept his phone on him so he could listen to the police scanner chatter is entirely possible if "there is an app for that", and has not been brought up here before, AFAIK.

IMO, that could be another reason BK would have kept his cellphone close at hand, along with its GPS mapping capabilities when he went off the grid and onto back roads that had no service after he left Moscow after the time the murders occurred and headed south on a circuitous route and may have gotten lost in the dark with no electronic mapping as he headed back to his apartment in Pullman (see the PCA).

No telling, but as good a possibility as any others that have been speculated as to why he had his phone on him during the timeframe of the murders and the hours afterwards per the PCA, IMO.

 

[Helechawagirl]

@Chloegirl That certainly is one theory! If the shower curtain were to have been located (particularly with any traces of evidence) it would IMO be considered evidence/proof of premeditation.

@Sister Golden Hair True that premeditation really only requires that the perpetrator spend time thinking about it (even for a minute) however, there is no way to prove someone had a thought. Therefore if the shower curtain were used in the way @Chloegirl suggested and if it were to have been found by LE (esp containing evidence) would/could that item not be (potentially) indicative of premeditation?

For some reason, I don’t think he wore anything unusual or covered the seats in his car. I don’t think he thought it through or, possibly as others have said, he wasn’t planning to kill anyone, but panicked when he found someone awake.

I think of the mask he was wearing as a ski mask as it was cold, and would reduce amount of hair he would leave as evidence. A Covid type mask would contain droplets from heavy breathing and somewhat act as a disguise.

The most damning thing to me is that he is still in jail and not telling everyone he sees that he is innocent. I’d be contacting every major news outlet I could if I was in his shoes.

I certainly hope LE has a lot more incriminating evidence because his life is in shambles. JMO

 

[schooling]

No apologies needed, @housewife, the possibility BK kept his phone on him so he could listen to the police scanner chatter is entirely possible if "there is an app for that", and has not been brought up here before, AFAIK.

IMO, that could be another reason BK would have kept his cellphone close at hand, along with its GPS mapping capabilities when he went off the grid and onto back roads that had no service after he left Moscow after the time the murders occurred and headed south on a circuitous route and may have gotten lost in the dark with no electronic mapping as he headed back to his apartment in Pullman (see the PCA).

No telling, but as good a possibility as any others that have been speculated as to why he had his phone on him during the timeframe of the murders and the hours afterwards per the PCA, IMO.

A cheapo $50 navigation device would have been a smarter solution (again, BK likely has rudimentary knowledge of how this stuff works). No cellular needed. 100% GPS. Disposable. Only evidence of his purchase to contend with.

 

[Helechawagirl]

This may be a stupid question, but I’ve been wanting to ask it for very long time. Do you think there’s any possibility that he was naked?

JMO, but I don’t think he was nude—just wearing dark clothes. That Daily Mail article is the only place I’ve seen that so either it didn’t happen or LE has been withholding info to the public and shielding another witness. JMO

 

[Nova]

He does seem to be a bad driver. However, what he got stopped for in the last posted clip involved a maneuver that is definitely not illegal in every state even if it is illegal in the state of Washington. It is not illegal to pull into an intersection when waiting to make a left turn in NC and doesn't appear to be in PA. (Oncoming traffic would have the right of way, of course.) But LE told BK that move was illegal in Washington. Apparently you have to stay behind the stop line and can't move into the intersection at all until the full left turn can be made. (Not sure how one ever turns left under those circumstances!) He also technically ran a red light when he finally made the turn so two violations.
JMO

If that law were enforced here in Southern California, nobody would ever arrive at their destination.

Left turns "on the yellow" (and often "on the red") are the only kind of left turns we have. (Slight exaggertion, but very slight.)

 

[Sincerely]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1592610179316879360

From this link…are those the tire marks LE was examining?

 

[Helechawagirl]

Yes, it was dark and he is so young he is just used to digital maps. Personally, I would simply use a paper map, not hard to do, and ditch my phone.

Most murder cases I look into that are planned ahead, the killer leaves his/her phone in the place where he/she wants to establish their alibi. Seems rare to take their phone with them.

Goes back to ignorance on how digital phone data works, thinking he could use his map app and not be discovered, or just wasn't planning to commit murder. Was just stalking the victims like always and it all escalated with the encounter of awake victims.

I can't get it out of my mind that an intelligent person like him, poor social skills but intelligent, would deliberately bring his phone to a home where he planned to commit mass murder.

But then he did turn his phone off, which shows premeditation.

I think I'm going to have to give up on speculating about this, just makes no sense, the murders make no sense. None of it.

I hear you. His phone battery could have died as opposed to being turned off. I sure hope we get all the details soon. JMO

 

[Nova]

IMO there's a lot of room there, but we each get our own opinion. I do want to clarify that I never said, nor would I be so obtuse as to think, that his defense would hang on the year of the car nor did I say this would be the best the defense can do. I said that this will be a point to be made. One of many IMO. But who knows? None of us really, and that is the point of hearing different POV.

Sister, I was actually agreeing with you. I expect the issue will be raised.

I just went on to say I don't think it will be a successful tactic for the Defense.

But it would practically be malpractice if AT did NOT mention the error in the public announcement, if only to imply that perhaps the investigation was slipshod.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

So are you suggesting that in addition to intentionally bleeding on his pillow BK created all those fake blood spots? For example, apparently there was a stain near the curtain rod on one side. It was tested & was not blood, and to me, it sounded like it could be a small rust stain. Do we think he created stains like that?
JMO

No, I didn't suggest BK "intentionally bled" onto his mattress cover or uncased pillow.

I just cited what was in the results of testing that were published in the last day and posted about on this thread, that those were the only two stains of several (red or reddish brown or pink in one case) stains LE tested that were positive for blood, and they could have come from him and leaked onto his bedding for any number of reasons (he had wounds, a nosebleed, a cut).

LE hasn't stated whose blood was on his mattress cover or uncased pillow.

In my replies to OP asking about the other red or reddish brown stains that were not tested as positive for blood, and what they might be from, I speculated and said IMO, they could have been stains from iodine or something similarly colored that left stains in some places that could look like blood.

If you read about all the stains that LE sampled that were not blood that are in the publsihed results and have been posted about many times in the last day, there were several, e.g., one on a light switch, one on a pizza wheel, a few on cleaning product containers, one next to the shower rod, etc.

We don't know what the several non blood stains were from, or whether LE did further testing to determine what they were.

To be clear, I did speculate in one post on this topic in reply to OPs wondering about the several stains that may have looked like blood but weren't tested as positive and what that could be about, which came up alot after the results were published in the last day, that having a bunch of non blood stains around the apartment that LE was interested enough to test, but only 2 samples were blood, could serve to make it look like "there's nothing to see here".

MOO

 

[jepop]

Can you post some links for me?

Thanks so much!

1.) Trespass letter
2.) Verfiable letter from WSU in the latest document release

@Cool Cats the post by @Twistinginthewind below (from upthread) contains info on Bk's firing as TA and a separate investigation (post Dec 19th firing, probably in early January) WSU was undertaking into his conduct with students on campus (unfair grading, sexism and other misconduct). The NYT reported in February that that investigation did not find for any misconduct and that BK's firing as TA was based soley on his unprofessionalism in relation to the role. It was, IMO, reliably reported by the NYT in February this year. At the time of the trespass letter, delivered to BK in his PA cell on Dec 31 (to which you have the link), WSU was conducting this enquiry and that is the reason for the trespass letter IMO. The original letter relating to BK's firing as a TA was reported by News Nation in early February and I actually believe that letter was genuine and leaked by someone who should not have done so. MOO. The firing (likely done over face time or call on DEC 19th) was only in relation to BK's TA position. He was not, at that time, expelled or anything from his PHD studies. Although as others have discussed here, being fired as a TA would have likely caused him financial difficulties. Just last thread (thread 77) someone posted the entire letter as revealed by NN. I have relied on the NYT article to form my opinon on this (see below for the guts of this article). MOO

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

As suspected, the testing of DNA was not done by the State of Idaho but was farmed out. This is getting all that info. But we are pretty far along. Is the defense late or was the info to them late? We are just over a month from pretrial. Am I reading the wrong document? Not being snippy...

www.websleuths.com

edited spelling x2

 

[jepop]

Cut and paste of Trespass Admonition dated Dec 30th. Snipped by me for focus and to avoid over copying (copyright laws). Emphasis mine.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/kohberger-search-records-from-wsu/6e5a6ce24a286a06/full.pdf

p163 0f pdf.

WASHINGTONSTATE
Date: December 30 , 2022
Addressee Bryan Kohberger ( DOB: 11-21-1994)
Address : 1630 NE Valley Rd G201
Pullman, WA 99163
Trespass Admonition
RE: Trespass Admonition
This admonition is to inform you that you have been trespassed from all areas of
Washington State University campuses...[snipped by me]...This admonition is effective immediately and will continue until pending student conduct charges have been resolved and you have been given
permission in writing to return to campus .
Trespassed means that your privilege to be on or in the area( s ) listed above has been
revoked or denied by Washington State University...[snipped by me]...
If you have a legitimate business need with Washington State University you must be
escorted by an official with Washington State University , and arrangements for such
escort must be made prior to you entering the area (s ) listed above . This means you must
make arrangements with WSU Police 509-335-8548 before coming on campus for any
reason

Sincerely
Office of Public Safety
Gary Jenkins, Chief of Police"

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Did he use the phone to listen to a police scanner as he drove away from the crime? That would be practical as well as provide “duping delight” and make things more “exciting” for him. Apologies if someone already mentioned this.

Good thought!

AFAIK, the MPD frequencies are scrambled & have been for several years. If anyone finds differently, please share!